[footie]

Originally Posted by NewSong

Footie, you are a member of the subtle-Nissan fanboy club on this board. I wouldn't expect much from your opinion.

No I am not a member of any fanboy club, not the M3, not Audi and definitely not for the GTR. But I do admire talented engineering and outstanding ability and on both counts the GTR excels in buckets.

You are more than welcome to voice your opinion on the 'M3 VS' section

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...60#post5226360

But it's full of big boy discussions and debates that may well go right over your head. If not then please add your comments and we will all take them on board.

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by footie

No I am not a member of any fanboy club, not the M3, not Audi and definitely not for the GTR. But I do admire talented engineering and outstanding ability and on both counts the GTR excels in buckets.

You are more than welcome to voice your opinion on the 'M3 VS' section

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...60#post5226360

But it's full of big boy discussions and debates that may well go right over your head. If not then please add your comments and we will all take them on board.

Nice try footie, but drawing me into a battle where all your "pals" and other fanboy friends can jump me is simply a tricky way of trying to stack the argument onto your side.

You are a fanboy, so I wouldn't expect much less.

[theslik1]

Originally Posted by rcracer_tx

...Porsche was right for calling them out, and notice that nissan hasn't offered to recreate the lap

Nothing but opinion here , but Nissan doesn't have to do another damn thing. Porsche shot themselves in the foot (and took themselves out of their own game) by attempting to call Nissan out. Porsche has now put itself in a position where its signature model is constantly negatively compared "downmarket" to Nissan instead of "upmarket" to Ferrari etc. We can argue whether Porsche actually compares to any Ferrari model but they would definitely prefer to be compared to that market segment.

I personally like the P-car more, but Porsche opened this can of worms and it has been nothing but pure win for the GTR ever since.

[1cleanm6]

Originally Posted by theslik1

Nothing but opinion here , but Nissan doesn't have to do another damn thing. Porsche shot themselves in the foot (and took themselves out of their own game) by attempting to call Nissan out. Porsche has now put itself in a position where its signature model is constantly negatively compared "downmarket" to Nissan instead of "upmarket" to Ferrari etc. We can argue whether Porsche actually compares to any Ferrari model but they would definitely prefer to be compared to that market segment.

I personally like the P-car more, but Porsche opened this can of worms and it has been nothing but pure win for the GTR ever since.

NISSAN sucks end of story..

[gshb]

^+1 i HATE it when companies make sports cars. just...god! i cant wait for the X6M to come out and show everyone whats up.

[DenverJayhawk]

the Nissan had to have been a ringer. Wonder how the new Spec V model would do on the ring?

[iatacs19]

Originally Posted by DenverJayhawk

the Nissan had to have been a ringer. Wonder how the new Spec V model would do on the ring?

I am guessing it will do very well.

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by iatacs19

I am guessing it will do very well.

It will run the Ring in 6:52, and Porsche, Ferrari, and everyone will be invited.

Then independent test will fail to come within 30 seconds of the time because "it has to be driven by a Nissan test driver who knows how the car actually works."

Actually, I wonder if buying a Nissan test driver could be a luxury option with the V Spec. It would be $4,000, and allow you to experience the full capability of your car. You'd just have to clothed and feed him(or "her" but that's $2,000 extra).

[MrRoboto]

Whats wrong with the GTR doing so well. Maybe it will force the rest of them to raise their game. It a win for all IMO.

[josephr25]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

Whats wrong with the GTR doing so well. Maybe it will force the rest of them to raise their game. It a win for all IMO.

People don't like the Japanese to do anything.

[footie]

Originally Posted by NewSong

Then independent test will fail to come within 30 seconds of the time because "it has to be driven by a Nissan test driver who knows how the car actually works."

Well considering Horst (Sportauto) is only 9 seconds off Nissan's stock GTR driven by Suzuki it's clearly that maths isn't one of your strengths.

It's early days but I bet someone will get even closer to Nissan's times. As for the V-spec, think closer to a 7:20 and not a sub 7 minute, that is an absurd figure that nothing short of a true track special will achieve and definitely not a heavy car like the GTR, good as it is.

[blue2fire]

Ill just save up for a bit more time and get a V8 Vantage. Screw the Nissan, it does not appeal at all. I dont like the business of paying tons of money to get my Supercar (nothing else to call it at those prices) serviced at a Shithole where 10 year old's go to get their Sentra's fixed.

The ring times are inconsequential, i dont think anyone here will admit that a Turbocharged Cobalt SS is a better car than the 335i because it runs around a road faster.

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by footie

Well considering Horst (Sportauto) is only 9 seconds off Nissan's stock GTR driven by Suzuki it's clearly that maths isn't one of your strengths.

It's early days but I bet someone will get even closer to Nissan's times. As for the V-spec, think closer to a 7:20 and not a sub 7 minute, that is an absurd figure that nothing short of a true track special will achieve and definitely not a heavy car like the GTR, good as it is.

Umm, 9 seconds on the ring is an eternity. It separates cars like the GT2 from the GT3. Secondly, I noticed you're now trying to compare to the 7:29 time that Nissan claimed earlier, which is of course their slowest claim, so you can try and tweak your fantasy argument and make it work in your non-rational mind.

If "maths" isn't one of my strengths, then reading certainly isn't one of yours. The initial post was talking about the fastest time Nissan claimed at the time which was 7:27, and now it's 7:26. It's shrinking everyday because Nissan has apparently created a car that can hit Warp 5 at will. Using their fastest time claim (7:38 - 7:26), you get a time difference of 12 full seconds which is a lifetime on the ring.

It is funny though that Horst, who is one of the BEST drivers in the world, he still couldn't come within 11 seconds of their 7:26 claim. So I guess Nissan needs to sell each one of these cars with a Suzuki clone so we can enjoy the true performance of the car.

I wonder why with other cars you usually get single digit difference when Horst is driving, and sometimes, Horst will surpass the officially claimed time. For instance:

F430 Scuderia:
Claimed by MotorAuthority: 7:45
Horst time: 7:39

But please keep throwing personal insults, and trying to tweak the argument in favor of your non-point. Your subtle-Nissan favoritism is funny (if not kind of pathetic).

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by blue2fire

Ill just save up for a bit more time and get a V8 Vantage. Screw the Nissan, it does not appeal at all. I dont like the business of paying tons of money to get my Supercar (nothing else to call it at those prices) serviced at a Shithole where 10 year old's go to get their Sentra's fixed.

The ring times are inconsequential, i dont think anyone here will admit that a Turbocharged Cobalt SS is a better car than the 335i because it runs around a road faster.

I agree.

I was just thinking this morning about how funny it is that the Cobalt SS is only 3 seconds behind the Camaro SS at the Ring.... But the Camaro is still the Camaro, and the Cobalt is still a Cobalt.

Just as the GTR is still a Nissan and the GT2 is still a Porsche. I'm a badge whore, so what?

I've seen a couple GTR's lately, and I'm just not inspired when I see it. The GT3 and GT2 stir a whole different set of emotions. Regardless of Ring times.

[footie]

Originally Posted by NewSong

Umm, 9 seconds on the ring is an eternity. It separates cars like the GT2 from the GT3.

Also throw in the fact that Horst is one of the BEST drivers in the world, and he still couldn't come within 10 seconds of their 7:26 claim, now you have a case for shenanigans.

But please keep throwing personal insults, and trying to tweak the argument in favor of your non-point. Fanboys make this forum great.

Not an insult, just stating the facts. The stock GTR with the same rubber and rims that Horst used posted an official time in the hands of Suzuki of 7:29, subtract that time from Horst time and you are left with 9 seconds, it is basic maths that my 9 older can do.

I give you that 9 seconds is a long time, even on the ring but that is the difference between someone of Suzuki's caliber and his knowledge of the car's abilities and someone like Horst who has only driven the GTR twice now on the ring and doesn't fully know what it's capable of. No shenanigans or smoke and mirrors, it's quite simple to understand.

BTW, I have never owned a Nissan before, nor any Japanese car come to think of it so I don't understand the FANBOY label, I simply respect fine engineering of which the GTR is of the highest caliber.

[footie]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

I agree.

I was just thinking this morning about how funny it is that the Cobalt SS is only 3 seconds behind the Camaro SS at the Ring.... But the Camaro is still the Camaro, and the Cobalt is still a Cobalt.

Just as the GTR is still a Nissan and the GT2 is still a Porsche. I'm a badge whore, so what?

I've seen a couple GTR's lately, and I'm just not inspired when I see it. The GT3 and GT2 stir a whole different set of emotions. Regardless of Ring times.

Completely agree with this. At the end of the day one is only a Nissan (a bloody brilliant one) and the other is a Porsche. The only thing that Nissan have done is to show that a great name and huge price is not required to make a supercar.

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by footie

I give you that 9 seconds is a long time, even on the ring but that is the difference between someone of Suzuki's caliber and his knowledge of the car's abilities

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make, but you keep trying to take this thread into tangents (i.e - come to the m3 board where we can debate, you can't do math, etc).

If Suzuki is the ONLY person who can achieve those times, then what's the point of posting them? No independent test has come close to Suzuki's 7:26 claim, but with other cars like the Scuderia, independent test are able to confirm the claimed time.

Also throw in that the GT3 actually BEAT the GTR in Car Magazine's independent test, and you have some room for major doubt about Nissan's claims.

I'm not surprised Porsche is calling shenanigans. Any real motor enthusiast would too.

[Draman]

This is an amusing thread. On one side you have NewSong the domestic fanboy, on another you have the people that appreciate the GTR for what it is (GTR fanboys maybe), on another you have the badge whores and on the last you have the people that really don't care either way. What a matchup!

[footie]

Originally Posted by NewSong

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make, but you keep trying to take this thread into tangents (i.e - come to the m3 board where we can debate, you can't do math, etc).

I don't think I am taking anything off on a tangent. If you are not aware we over on m3 board have discussed this in far greater depth and most are start to come round to the idea that Nissan, while being dishonest about the actual output of the GTR have in fact delivered these figures from totally stock examples. The simple truth is that they are quite exceptional cars the GTR.

Originally Posted by NewSong

If Suzuki is the ONLY person who can achieve those times, then what's the point of posting them? No independent test has come close to Suzuki's 7:26 claim, but with other cars like the Scuderia, independent test are able to confirm the claimed time.

Considering Ferrari don't quote official figures at the ring it's pretty hard to confirm what they would be capable of. But the two UK independent tests of both the GT2 and GT3 neither magazine got close to matching the official times, the same was true for the GTR on those occasions so what if anything does that prove??????

No doubt Suzuki is a major factor in the official times but given what Horst has done I believe that many a professional driver will match or better his time. Personally I have openly stated that I think a realistic figure of 7:34~35 is the true time for a GTR is capable hands. Not bad for something costing the price of an M3 with options and miles below that of either Porsche.

Originally Posted by NewSong

Also throw in that the GT3 actually BEAT the GTR in Car Magazine's independent test, and you have some room for major doubt about Nissan's claims.

If you took the time to read the article then you wouldn't keep harping on about this. The explanation is there for all to read.

Originally Posted by NewSong

I'm not surprised Porsche is calling shenanigans. Any real motor enthusiast would too.

I'm a real motoring enthusiast with a fair bit of driving experience and I can tell you that Porsche were running scared of the GTR. What they did was very foolish and Nissan have proved this with Porsche as their witness. Porsche's actions only harmed themselves and give Nissan the best PR they could ever hope for, official ring figures are news for maybe a month if even that but the GTR's time is still a hot topic.

Well done Porsche.

[ragingclue]

Agreed that Porsche's claims have only bolstered the GTR's image. And there's no doubt that the GTR is an amazing car at a relatively amazing price.

But I still don't like it, and there are other cars I would consider first at that price point. RingTime/$$ is not the deciding factor in owning a car for me.

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by footie

Considering Ferrari don't quote official figures at the ring it's pretty hard to confirm what they would be capable of.

But the fact the all the independent test are within SINGLE digits of each other is telling.

Originally Posted by footie

No doubt Suzuki is a major factor in the official times

It's the only factor thus far. Like I said, they need to make it an option that you can buy a Nissan driver from the factory so you can enjoy "100% of the performance" from your car.

Originally Posted by footie

Well done Porsche.

Yeah poor Porsche. Maybe one day they'll be able to learn from Nissan and void people's warranties for using options that are included on their cars from the factory.

[EJ2000]

NewSong, let's take a quick look at what you've said recently:

Originally Posted by NewSong

Umm, 9 seconds on the ring is an eternity...

...so you can try and tweak your fantasy argument and make it work in your non-rational mind.

If "maths" isn't one of my strengths, then reading certainly isn't one of yours. The initial post was talking about the fastest time Nissan claimed at the time which was 7:27, and now it's 7:26...

...Using their fastest time claim (7:38 - 7:26), you get a time difference of 12 full seconds which is a lifetime on the ring.

Originally Posted by NewSong

But please keep throwing personal insults, and trying to tweak the argument in favor of your non-point. Your subtle-Nissan favoritism is funny (if not kind of pathetic).

Oh yes, and this one too:

Originally Posted by NewSong

You are a fanboy, so I wouldn't expect much less.

Now let's take a trip down memory lane and look at your original post and topic:

Originally Posted by NewSong

Why can't any independent test get within 20 seconds of the claimed GTR Ring time?

Here are the times:

GT3: 7:49 (Porsche claims 7:40)
GT-R: 7:51 (Nissan claims 7:26)

Now I'll attribute the differences in times to the driver not knowing the car nearly as well as the test drivers from Porsche or Nissan. A 9 second difference with the Porsche seems acceptable, but 26 seconds from the Nissan GTR???!

Is it time to call shenanigans on Nissan?

No, it is time to call shenanigans on you. Your original question has been answered - they can get within 20 seconds. In fact, they can get within 9-12 seconds.

So 9-12 seconds is an unacceptable difference for the GT-R but 9 seconds is perfectly ok for the GT3?

Also, you used to attribute differences in times to drivers, but now you cannot?

I'm wondering, when do you admit that you are the fanboy here, and you are the one massaging the semantics of this argument to fit your desired outcome? You already have the answers to your original questions. Just take a quick look at the first page.