[TommyBahama]

http://video.google.com/googleplayer...99263937213&hl

[ski360]

Originally Posted by dr325i

What some miss in all this is that the Global Warming is the trend, not an overnight occurence and that if we had bad hurricanes in 2005 does not mean that the 2006 would be worse, or if the winter was mild in DC that next January it will be summer in DC...

The trend, measured average temperatures on Earth are increasing, causing things like the hurricane force winds in Europe a week ago. In order for a Hurricane to form, many things have to come together, not only warmer waters...

The most important and noticeable measures of global warming are: CO2 levels that coorelate with Earth's temperature, Average temperature trend, Ecosystems movement, melting of ice at the higher rate than projected, and increased ocean levels. Weather phenomena (like hurricanes) are the combination of many factors...

Thanks for the complement, Your right though it could be a trend, weather has only been accurately reported and recorded for the last 100 years so there is no way to prove that this isn't a cyclical event. There just isn't enough data on the subject. Everyone is saying CO2, well what about the sun getting hotter? Bottom line is there the study is inconclusive.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by ski360

Thanks for the complement, Your right though it could be a trend, weather has only been accurately reported and recorded for the last 100 years so there is no way to prove that this isn't a cyclical event. There just isn't enough data on the subject. Everyone is saying CO2, well what about the sun getting hotter? Bottom line is there the study is inconclusive.

+1 on all that.
(sorry for the childish behavior above
The trouble I see is that the CO2 levels are way too high, and the temperature is way too high as compared to the trends before...and of course there is almost 7B of us on the plannet in the middle of the craziest technological revolution ever...

Some data is very valid like the Greenland, Antartica, etc, but not all data. The problem is that we should research it ASAP before we pass the point of no return.

I thought the Sun should be cooling off, not heating up as it ages...I may be wrong...

[darkcloud]

Originally Posted by dr325i

I thought the Sun should be cooling off, not heating up as it ages...I may be wrong...

I'm prolly wrong as well, but I always thought the sun got exponentially hotter as time went on. Until it got so hot that it exploded. At least that's why it would explode. I don't see why if it continually cooled it would explode, if it did that then it would just slowly harden and do nothing, right?

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

I'm prolly wrong as well, but I always thought the sun got exponentially hotter as time went on. Until it got so hot that it exploded. At least that's why it would explode. I don't see why if it continually cooled it would explode, if it did that then it would just slowly harden and do nothing, right?

It's getting smaller and smaller, until it collapses into itself -- explodes...

[ski360]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

I'm prolly wrong as well, but I always thought the sun got exponentially hotter as time went on. Until it got so hot that it exploded. At least that's why it would explode. I don't see why if it continually cooled it would explode, if it did that then it would just slowly harden and do nothing, right?

Actually I don't think our sun will explode or create a super nova. I think its suppose to turn into a Red Giant, which will ultimately bring a end to the world as we know it. Basically the sun will grow pushing the earths orbit a little bit and boiling our oceans, then the atmosphere will dissipate effectively bringing an end to the world, then once that phase is complete it will turn into a white dwarf....Talk about depressing. The up side is that won't happen for a really really long time.

Dr325i,
I'll agree that it needs to be researched....but I'm not going to buy off on a Al Gore movie just because he is trying to find a platform to stand on.

[Romo]

Originally Posted by ski360

Actually I don't think our sun will explode or create a super nova. I think its suppose to turn into a Red Giant, which will ultimately bring a end to the world as we know it. Basically the sun will grow pushing the earths orbit a little bit and boiling our oceans, then the atmosphere will dissipate effectively bringing an end to the world, then once that phase is complete it will turn into a white dwarf....Talk about depressing. The up side is that won't happen for a really really long time.

Dr325i,
I'll agree that it needs to be researched....but I'm not going to buy off on a Al Gore movie just because he is trying to find a platform to stand on.

That`s correct, 1st a red giant, it will be so big that the Earth is completly swallowed by it ( distance Earth-Sun is called an Astronomical Unit, about 150 milion KM or 96 milion miles), than it collapses and 2nd turn into a white dwarf, possible into a black hole............................we still have time, in about 5B years this will happen, the sun is half of it`s predicted age.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by ski360

Actually I don't think our sun will explode or create a super nova. I think its suppose to turn into a Red Giant, which will ultimately bring a end to the world as we know it. Basically the sun will grow pushing the earths orbit a little bit and boiling our oceans, then the atmosphere will dissipate effectively bringing an end to the world, then once that phase is complete it will turn into a white dwarf....Talk about depressing. The up side is that won't happen for a really really long time.

Dr325i,
I'll agree that it needs to be researched....but I'm not going to buy off on a Al Gore movie just because he is trying to find a platform to stand on.

I assume you have seen it before commenting on it...
You know, the most negative opinions on M Moore's Fahrenheit 911 came from people that refused to see it. No one is saying we should buy it and fill up his pockets, but we should see it before critisizing it.

I've seen it and I think it is just laying out the data collected so far. Majority of scientists support it, of course, there are some that say it is wrong.

[Driv3r]

Guys, think about it....
What is the harm in being a little more nature friendly?
If your wrong with your information, the ice caps melt, oceans rise etc.

IF your right, what was wrong with keeping your world a little cleaner?

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by so gti

i watched it. very interesting. It was def. an eye opener for a lot of people.

BTW, i don think they are doing this for marketing sake. they are not trying to sell their product or anything. did you see anything? They indirectly say "buy hybrid car" but they (or Al Gore) never said "Buy Toyota Purius".

and those who argue on internet...i don't wanna say who's inmature and who's not. but it's pretty obvious.

What Al Gore was selling was himself. He is a relatively young man and came within a couple of hundred votes of fulfilling his daddy's dream for him. If you do not think he considers himself a future President then ...

As for the movie, it is very well done but very misleading. For instance:

Claim: An Inconvenient Truth (AIT) “blames” CO2-induced warming for the disappearing Snows of Kilimanjaro (pp. 42-43).

Truth: Satellite measurements of air temperatures at Kilimanjaro show a trend of +0.01C/ decade since 1978, essentially zero.

“Rather than changes in 20th century climate being responsible for their demise, glaciers on Kilimanjaro appear to be remnants of a past climate that was once able to sustain them.”
Source: Cullen et al. (2006)

Claim: “It’s a complicated relationship, but the most important part of it is this: When there is more CO2 in the atmosphere, the temperature increases because more heat from the Sun is strapped inside.” (AIT, p. 67)

Truth: AIT implies that changes in CO2 levels were the key driver of climate change over the past 650,000 years. In reality, temperature changes preceded CO2 level changes by hundreds to thousands of years.
Source: Fischer et al. (1999)

Gore’s 650,000-year graph shows that each of the previous four interglacial periods was warmer than the present, even though CO2 levels were lower.

Example: During the peak of the last interglacial (~130,000-127,000 years ago), summer surface temperatures in Arctic Canada and Greenland were 4-5°C warmer than the present, and large portions of Siberia were 4-8°C warmer.
Source: Otto-Bliesner et al. (2006)

Claim: “And in recent years the rate of increase has been increasing. In fact, if you look at the 21 hottest years measured, 20 of the 21 have occurred within the last 25 years.” (AIT, p. 72)

Truth: There has been no increase in the rate of warming since the mid-1970s, when the second 20th century warming period began.

For the past 30 years, the planet has warmed at a remarkably constant rate of 0.17°C (or 0.31°F) per decade.
Source: World Climate Report.

Claim: Also in 2004, the all-time record for tornadoes in the United States was broken.” (AIT, p. 87)

Truth: Tornado frequency has not increased; rather, the detection of smaller tornadoes has increased.
If we consider the tornadoes that have been detectable for many decades (i.e. F-3 or greater), there is actually a slight downward trend since 1950.
Source: National Climate Data Center

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by ganeil

What Al Gore was selling was himself. He is a relatively young man and came within a couple of hundred votes of fulfilling his daddy's dream for him. If you do not think he considers himself a future President then ...

As for the movie, it is very well done but very misleading. For instance:

Claim: An Inconvenient Truth (AIT) “blames” CO2-induced warming for the disappearing Snows of Kilimanjaro (pp. 42-43).

Truth: Satellite measurements of air temperatures at Kilimanjaro show a trend of +0.01C/ decade since 1978, essentially zero.

“Rather than changes in 20th century climate being responsible for their demise, glaciers on Kilimanjaro appear to be remnants of a past climate that was once able to sustain them.”
Source: Cullen et al. (2006)

Claim: “It’s a complicated relationship, but the most important part of it is this: When there is more CO2 in the atmosphere, the temperature increases because more heat from the Sun is strapped inside.” (AIT, p. 67)

Truth: AIT implies that changes in CO2 levels were the key driver of climate change over the past 650,000 years. In reality, temperature changes preceded CO2 level changes by hundreds to thousands of years.
Source: Fischer et al. (1999)

Gore’s 650,000-year graph shows that each of the previous four interglacial periods was warmer than the present, even though CO2 levels were lower.

Example: During the peak of the last interglacial (~130,000-127,000 years ago), summer surface temperatures in Arctic Canada and Greenland were 4-5°C warmer than the present, and large portions of Siberia were 4-8°C warmer.
Source: Otto-Bliesner et al. (2006)

Claim: “And in recent years the rate of increase has been increasing. In fact, if you look at the 21 hottest years measured, 20 of the 21 have occurred within the last 25 years.” (AIT, p. 72)

Truth: There has been no increase in the rate of warming since the mid-1970s, when the second 20th century warming period began.

For the past 30 years, the planet has warmed at a remarkably constant rate of 0.17°C (or 0.31°F) per decade.
Source: World Climate Report.

Claim: Also in 2004, the all-time record for tornadoes in the United States was broken.” (AIT, p. 87)

Truth: Tornado frequency has not increased; rather, the detection of smaller tornadoes has increased.
If we consider the tornadoes that have been detectable for many decades (i.e. F-3 or greater), there is actually a slight downward trend since 1950.
Source: National Climate Data Center

I guess we're all cool now...
I'm trading my Bimmer for an Expedition next weekend...

[///Matt]

Stop evidencing your retardation, dr325i!

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by dr325i

I guess we're all cool now...
I'm trading my Bimmer for an Expedition next weekend...

Why get rid of the Bimmer? I have an Expedition as well as my Bimmers.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by ///Matt

Stop evidencing your retardation, dr325i!

Wait a minute, weren't you the dummie saying that you need MENSA membership to repair the Bimmers... Go read some comic books, this conversation is for grown ups...

EDIT: Or maybe I should point you to the #33 where you admitted your own retardation...must have forgotten about that...

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by ganeil

Why get rid of the Bimmer? I have an Expedition as well as my Bimmers.

Hmm, good idea, but can't afford it now...

[E91 Dude]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Again, I admire what you know (cars, and other things), I admire soldiers doing what they do

Originally Posted by dr325i

The dummie that lives of my tax payer's money is here...
Your analogy is again...very dumb and narrow minded.
Go, do your job we pay you to do...certainly not to surf the internet...
And don't forget the Valentine's card for W...

This is contradicting isn't it?

[magamaga]

Global Warming is not propaganda. I'm from Panama, and when I was growing up, i remember the seasons were not messed up as they are now. Butterflies, hawks, turtles and other species migrated at the same times of the year as they had since the 40's. Now the butterflies are still migrating but it is almost non-existant because their migrations are not coinciding with other species; hawks still migrate but they are coming in less numbers for the same reasons as the butterflies; turtles are still there, thank God. The summer (absence of rain and shift in winds) there always used to start at the middle of December and be in full swing by mid January. Now it is always raining throught December and parts of January.
Polar ice that breaks in so short a time is no coincidence.

I don't think Propaganda makes the case here , since the interests of the powerful is to only make money. Propaganda on this subject does the opposite.
The US is already brewing with a movement towards a cleaner environment but when will China do that? China has a sh!tload of people!

[///Matt]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Wait a minute, weren't you the dummie saying that you need MENSA membership to repair the Bimmers... Go read some comic books, this conversation is for grown ups...

EDIT: Or maybe I should point you to the #33 where you admitted your own retardation...must have forgotten about that...

I REALLY hope you didn't get those "Math and Engineering degrees" at an American College. If you did, with your horrible grammar, spelling, syntax, and typing skills, I'm very sad.

EDIT: I'm also entertained by the fact that you keep referring to me as childlike. I'm an adult in every sense of the word. For you to think I'm so childlike just based on my age, you must be ancient. And for that, I feel better about myself, since I'm still young, virile, AND able to afford a nicer car than you. =)

[Romo]

Originally Posted by magamaga

Global Warming is not propaganda. I'm from Panama, and when I was growing up, i remember the seasons were not messed up as they are now. Butterflies, hawks, turtles and other species migrated at the same times of the year as they had since the 40's. Now the butterflies are still migrating but it is almost non-existant because their migrations are not coinciding with other species; hawks still migrate but they are coming in less numbers for the same reasons as the butterflies; turtles are still there, thank God. The summer (absence of rain and shift in winds) there always used to start at the middle of December and be in full swing by mid January. Now it is always raining throught December and parts of January.
Polar ice that breaks in so short a time is no coincidence.

I don't think Propaganda makes the case here , since the interests of the powerful is to only make money. Propaganda on this subject does the opposite.
The US is already brewing with a movement towards a cleaner environment but when will China do that? China has a sh!tload of people!

Global warming is occeuring, everybody agrees on that, but that`s not the point.
The point is; is it a natural thing, or are humans responsble for it?

This not verry easy to answer, because even scienentists are argueing about this.

See the points made by GANeil, they are verry clear......................................

[BMW F22]

wonder how long until this thread gets closed down. hahaha
We should get Al Gore in here.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by ///Matt

I REALLY hope you didn't get those "Math and Engineering degrees" at an American College. If you did, with your horrible grammar, spelling, syntax, and typing skills, I'm very sad.

Math & Engineering ... Spelling...
Ahm, yes, the top Engineering school where we focused on Math and Engineering, not spelling and grammar... Again, shows some points about your IQ, Mr. Mensa...

Originally Posted by ///Matt

EDIT: I'm also entertained by the fact that you keep referring to me as childlike. I'm an adult in every sense of the word. For you to think I'm so childlike just based on my age, you must be ancient. And for that, I feel better about myself, since I'm still young, virile, AND able to afford a nicer car than you. =)

Sorry, not much to base an opinion about you except your known age and childish comments, just like this one... You just keep proving it yourself...

Anyway, there are much better things here to discuss than answer your empty assults...

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by Romo

Global warming is occeuring, everybody agrees on that, but that`s not the point.
The point is; is it a natural thing, or are humans responsble for it?

This not verry easy to answer, because even scienentists are argueing about this.

See the points made by GANeil, they are verry clear......................................

Exactly, that is why we should make sure we're not causing the majority of it, and we are to find the way to slow it down or reverse it.