[MonsterM]

Originally Posted by scollins

So you are upside down? So fucking what? I'm upside down, but my family needs a place to live. Should I just walk away from my house because the value went down? I still need to live somewhere.

The converse is, if the value skyrocketed, does the lender get the windfall? You can't have all the upside and none of the risk.

At the end of the day, being "upside down" is only on paper until you have to sell (not WANT to sell to dump the debt). My 30 year fixed payment is the same today as it was 6 years ago.

There is plenty of blame to go around. It is disingenuous to only blame Wall Street. They didn't hold a gun to the heads of all these fucking clowns who bought way above their means. And just because a bank is willing to give you a loan doesn't absolve you of making sure you can still afford it.

What I see in this protest is what is really wrong with the world: no personal responsibility. It is always, ALWAYS, someone else's fault for their station in life. Whether it be corporations, rich people, government, whatever.

And, for the USA, it is impossible for there to be 99% bailing out the 1%, given that 47% paid no federal income tax last year. ZERO percent of their money bailed out a bank, automaker, financial firm, etc. because they had not paid any!

Yes, they paid payroll taxes, but that goes to Medicare and SS, which theoretically they'll get back. And many not only paid no income tax, they got more back than they had withheld! WTF?

"you" is generic, not specifically you tag824...

[ChuckBMW3]

Originally Posted by scollins

So you are upside down? So fucking what? I'm upside down, but my family needs a place to live. Should I just walk away from my house because the value went down? I still need to live somewhere.

The converse is, if the value skyrocketed, does the lender get the windfall? You can't have all the upside and none of the risk.

At the end of the day, being "upside down" is only on paper until you have to sell (not WANT to sell to dump the debt). My 30 year fixed payment is the same today as it was 6 years ago.

There is plenty of blame to go around. It is disingenuous to only blame Wall Street. They didn't hold a gun to the heads of all these fucking clowns who bought way above their means. And just because a bank is willing to give you a loan doesn't absolve you of making sure you can still afford it.

What I see in this protest is what is really wrong with the world: no personal responsibility. It is always, ALWAYS, someone else's fault for their station in life. Whether it be corporations, rich people, government, whatever.

And, for the USA, it is impossible for there to be 99% bailing out the 1%, given that 47% paid no federal income tax last year. ZERO percent of their money bailed out a bank, automaker, financial firm, etc. because they had not paid any!

Yes, they paid payroll taxes, but that goes to Medicare and SS, which theoretically they'll get back. And many not only paid no income tax, they got more back than they had withheld! WTF?

"you" is generic, not specifically you tag824...

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by scollins

So you are upside down? So fucking what? I'm upside down, but my family needs a place to live. Should I just walk away from my house because the value went down? I still need to live somewhere.

The converse is, if the value skyrocketed, does the lender get the windfall? You can't have all the upside and none of the risk.

At the end of the day, being "upside down" is only on paper until you have to sell (not WANT to sell to dump the debt). My 30 year fixed payment is the same today as it was 6 years ago.

There is plenty of blame to go around. It is disingenuous to only blame Wall Street. They didn't hold a gun to the heads of all these fucking clowns who bought way above their means. And just because a bank is willing to give you a loan doesn't absolve you of making sure you can still afford it.

What I see in this protest is what is really wrong with the world: no personal responsibility. It is always, ALWAYS, someone else's fault for their station in life. Whether it be corporations, rich people, government, whatever.

And, for the USA, it is impossible for there to be 99% bailing out the 1%, given that 47% paid no federal income tax last year. ZERO percent of their money bailed out a bank, automaker, financial firm, etc. because they had not paid any!

Yes, they paid payroll taxes, but that goes to Medicare and SS, which theoretically they'll get back. And many not only paid no income tax, they got more back than they had withheld! WTF?

"you" is generic, not specifically you tag824...

I definitely agree with everything you said but consider this about the bolded part; it is unfortunate but that is and has been the American way for many, many years and the Government has only provoked it and done nothing to curb it, it's part of the system. Lawyers and Insurance companies in this country thrive off taking the liability out of other's hands and we are a sue happy country. So I think the liability issue goes all the way around and unfortunately little can be done to ask people to take "full responsibility into their hands" when consistently you see someone suing for something and winning tons of $$$ for complete bullshit. It's a sad reality and it's as if at times there is an incentive for being irresponsible with so many lawyers on your side and the type of things the Government did with the numerous bailouts.

[scollins]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I definitely agree with everything you said but consider this about the bolded part; it is unfortunate but that is and has been the American way for many, many years and the Government has only provoked it and done nothing to curb it, it's part of the system. Lawyers and Insurance companies in this country thrive off taking the liability out of other's hands and we are a sue happy country. So I think the liability issue goes all the way around and unfortunately little can be done to ask people to take "full responsibility into their hands" when consistently you see someone suing for something and winning tons of $$$ for complete bullshit. It's a sad reality and it's as if at times there is an incentive for being irresponsible with so many lawyers on your side and the type of things the Government did with the numerous bailouts.

You are correct, but we have to start somewhere with it. But I don't see that happening at all, any time soon. It will require a reform of the tort laws, and Congress and the White House have shown little or no willingness, ability or drive to reform ANYTHING, so I have no hope about that either. Too worried about pandering to big interests for the large money contributions, which they spend pandering to the little interests (voters) to get re-elected. Rinse and repeat.

That's what really chaps me about this protest too. They say the politicians have all been bought by big corporations. But last time I checked, corporations don't vote, PEOPLE do. So who keeps sending them back to Congress? The fucking idiot people! Many of whom I'm guessing are at these protests. Naturally, it is the "other guy's politician" that is the problem, my Senator/Representative/President/Mayor/Commissioner is one of the good guys....

We keep sending the same politicians back to Washington time and again, and we keep expecting different results or new ideas. We are in effect, all insane.

[Blake]

Originally Posted by scollins

You are correct, but we have to start somewhere with it. But I don't see that happening at all, any time soon. It will require a reform of the tort laws, and Congress and the White House have shown little or no willingness, ability or drive to reform ANYTHING, so I have no hope about that either. Too worried about pandering to big interests for the large money contributions, which they spend pandering to the little interests (voters) to get re-elected. Rinse and repeat.

That's what really chaps me about this protest too. They say the politicians have all been bought by big corporations. But last time I checked, corporations don't vote, PEOPLE do. So who keeps sending them back to Congress? The fucking idiot people! Many of whom I'm guessing are at these protests. Naturally, it is the "other guy's politician" that is the problem, my Senator/Representative/President/Mayor/Commissioner is one of the good guys....

We keep sending the same politicians back to Washington time and again, and we keep expecting different results or new ideas. We are in effect, all insane.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by scollins

You are correct, but we have to start somewhere with it. But I don't see that happening at all, any time soon. It will require a reform of the tort laws, and Congress and the White House have shown little or no willingness, ability or drive to reform ANYTHING, so I have no hope about that either. Too worried about pandering to big interests for the large money contributions, which they spend pandering to the little interests (voters) to get re-elected. Rinse and repeat.

That's what really chaps me about this protest too. They say the politicians have all been bought by big corporations. But last time I checked, corporations don't vote, PEOPLE do. So who keeps sending them back to Congress? The fucking idiot people! Many of whom I'm guessing are at these protests. Naturally, it is the "other guy's politician" that is the problem, my Senator/Representative/President/Mayor/Commissioner is one of the good guys....

We keep sending the same politicians back to Washington time and again, and we keep expecting different results or new ideas. We are in effect, all insane.

I know this will sound crazy but how about a one term limit on all political offices? No one politician would go for this but imagine how different of a country we'd live in.

And no political contributions

[scollins]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I know this will sound crazy but how about a one term limit on all political offices? No one politician would go for this but imagine how different of a country we'd live in.

And no political contributions

I'm for it, although I'm a little more generous with the limits:
Senator - 2 terms (12 years)
Rep - 5 terms (10 years)
President - 2 terms (8 years already in effect)

Someone could serve 30 years at the federal level, but not all in the same position. Might still allow too much power and influence though....

As for contributions, here is an idea : All donations are sent to an escrow account, with a cutoff 6 months before the election. Then, each candidate gets an equal share to spend on their campaign. No other funds, PACs, groups etc may spend on behalf of or against a candidate. Run out of money? Too bad. Don't spend it all? It goes back to the escrow for the next campaign. It would never work though, nobody would donate knowing part of their money supported an opposing candidate....

[11Series]

Originally Posted by ChuckBMW3

These people are protesting the effects of a free market coupled with an education. If that catapults someone into the top 1%, why should I feel sorry for those less successful who aren't willing to work as hard?

Screw all your fellow Americans as long as you've got yours, right?

[BMWinNorthdakota]

Originally Posted by 11Series

Screw all your fellow Americans as long as you've got yours, right?

No.. Screw the tard bag who sits on the corner of a street bitching about how shitty his life is and hasn't taken any real effort towards improving it.

Go watch that old movie "The Pursuit of Happiness" if you want to know the true meaning of effort and drive.


Screw the rich guy that worked his ass off to make everything hes ever had, right?

"Because he has money and he ought to help the people who haven't attained such success"- Socialism at it's finest.

[ChuckBMW3]

Originally Posted by 11Series

Screw all your fellow Americans as long as you've got yours, right?

Wrong. I haven't worked this hard in life to finance someone who is A. too lazy to go get a job B. perfectly content with sponging off of welfare, SS, "disability" and every other government entitlement program out there that I pay for C. and finally, it's shocking to see so many people wanting to support these morons. I have no problem helping out those less fortunate and those that ACTUALLY need help, but I will not condone handouts/govt handouts just bc someone don't "feel" like working. And btw, the "I can't find a job" excuse is bull $hit. If you wanted a job badly enough, you can certainly find one.

[achien]

because I used to work in the US for a good number of years (probably more than some US members of this forum), and I paid my fair of taxes to the US government as well.

this "Occupy Wall Street" syndrome is not limited to the US, it is a world wide "disease of fraud and corruption" by the banks and financial institution. what happened three (3) years ago with CDS is peanuts to what is happening in Europe now. it is essentially the same game, but the main characters are just different (average Americans vs. sovereign governments).

I am starting this thread because I believe this forum has a good number of mature and intelligent members who can share their thoughts and opinions. and based on the feedback received to-date, I am still seeing people do care about earning money in an ethical way (nobody is accusing or attacking Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Michael Bloomberg, George Soros, or Warren Buffet as the bad 1%).

p.s. when I was young (in my teens), my views are so far right that would make the current "Tea Party Members" look Liberal. but the more time I spent in this world, the more injustices I see.

Originally Posted by Blake

why do you even care? according to all the red and white on your posts, you're canadian. why do you exactly feel compelled to start this thread? you specify occupy wall street, but you don't even live here. did you just start this to stir up emotions? that's not very canadian of you.

at any rate, your diatribe is about as far left as it goes. you're obviously a staunch supporter of the unknown movement. it seriously has 0 identity. it's just a bunch of people pissed off at everything. these people have no facts and are just protesting because "it's the woodstock of our day." so why the fuck should we pay attention?

fact: the top 1% accounts for 40% of the government's income. above $33k/yr accounts for 97% of the government's income. the people that are complaining should be the bottom 3%, but are just protesting because it's cool. the grievances presented are basically ascertaining that they're all poor and destitute. i haven't seen a person that's actually in the 99% protesting so far. they're too busy working. true story.

if you were actually american and know what's going on, the government spends too much money on everything. we fight silly wars that have no end, we give way too much aide, and we bail out the private sector. it's my belief that the government should be strictly laissez-faire in anything financial. if a bank fails, the government shouldn't be involved. government should be self defense, general protection and welfare of the people (this does not mean a free paycheck), and accountability. these protesters don't even know what they're trying to change. it's just a bunch of idiots being mad and beating drums.



economic equality is communism.



you're on to something, although a job isn't easy to find these days unless it's a technical job. another true story.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by 11Series

Screw all your fellow Americans as long as you've got yours, right?

You're aware that you live in a capitalist rather than socialist society I trust?

I'm Canadian, and couldn't care less about these protests in the U.S., but what I am forced to hear (since I can't seem to escape it) bugs me. And yes, it may be I'm only hearing one side of the story...the one that makes them all look ridiculous.

Why work hard if there is no reward? If you saved to attend university instead of blowing the money on getting drunk and partying with the "cool" kids in high school...why should you have to turn around and support them later on in life?

Bring up two points:
1. For those who are religious on the forum, Pilgrim's progress comes to mind. Now, certainly this was not the intent of the book, but I'm reminded of a part in there where two children are playing (and I think are entitled to an inheritance?). Anyways, one child decided to take everything now, and gets all these toys and is happy. The other child decides to save it instead and gets nothing at the moment. The child who has all the toys eventually wears them out and breaks them. The child who saved it, receives the inheritance, and is happy, BUT the first child now complains that this is not fair. Forgive my recollection of the story if its not spot on - I really should re-read that book sometime, its been too long.

2. For those who aren't religious on the forum. Ayn Rand's book "Atlas Shrugged" was pretty good - for those that haven't read it, and think this whole protest is ridiculous, you may enjoy it. I'll warn you - its a long read. But very well written.

All this to say though - I'm all for helping those who TRULY need help. But so many just milk the system, and I'm against helping those.

[Gladius]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

All this to say though - I'm all for helping those who TRULY need help. But so many just milk the system, and I'm against helping those.

Like all the companies that pay zero taxes but still aren't creating any jobs?

[cmk227]

Originally Posted by Gladius

Like all the companies that pay zero taxes but still aren't creating any jobs?

You must be a liberal.

It funny how the tv want to make this hate moment something bigger than it is. So let imagine that 1% of the population is an lazy that means that we should have 3.6M people protesting occupy wall street. The largest I have heard from liberal medias is a couple of thousands.

This is no representation of the American people. The true representation will be the 2012 election.

My support is for Herman Cain

[txz4]

Originally Posted by Gladius

Like all the companies that pay zero taxes but still aren't creating any jobs?

its the gov's fault for allowing that. The corporation is entitled to to what it will within the confines of law. Another thing thats always upset me is the B.S. idea of "creating jobs" you dont create jobs, if there is a need then the need will be filled, if not, than there is nothing to be filled I.E. no job. You dont simply create a job because someone needs the job, you create a job if it serves your best interest. Not trying to be cold but thats life. These firms should never have been bailed out if people weren't happy with the fact that once given the money its up to the corps to do what they will with it...yet again, not the govs place to dictate what these people do with the money after they already gave it to them, before yes absolutely, after...come on. On the topic of these occupiers its very clear that they have no real knowledge of whats actually going on and are just unhappy with the system as they "see it" at the end of the day they would prefer communism or socialism or at least what they think they are.

As someone above said, just read literally any Ayn Rand or for that matter: brace new world, 1984, Fahrenheit 451.... list goes on. Any of these highlights what they're dreams will lead to.

/rant

[scollins]

Originally Posted by Gladius

Like all the companies that pay zero taxes but still aren't creating any jobs?

And what companies are those? Or is that some bullshit sound bite you read on Facebook, some random blog, or a sign at a protest? I'm guessing you have no facts to support that assertion.....

[txz4]

Originally Posted by cmk227

You must be a liberal.

It funny how the tv want to make this hate moment something bigger than it is. So let imagine that 1% of the population is an lazy that means that we should have 3.6M people protesting occupy wall street. The largest I have heard from liberal medias is a couple of thousands.

This is no representation of the American people. The true representation will be the 2012 election.

My support is for Herman Cain

totally on board with Cain as well. Perry and Romney are career pols.

[persian54]

Don't really feel like arguing/discussing etc so I'll just post these:

[persian54]

Some more funny pics:

[jumpthewire]

Protests are dumb. We should all continue to let corporations

[number335]

Originally Posted by Gladius

Like all the companies that pay zero taxes but still aren't creating any jobs?

They are creating jobs. Just in other countries.

[NYCGP]

Originally Posted by number335

They are creating jobs. Just in other countries.

Wonder if that has anything to do with not re-patriating their profits made overseas.... Hmmm. Can't say I blame them.. Broken system is broken...