[Artemis]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

I think these stats tell the story. Older WDC champions are rare, especially as the years go up and even wins in general become much more rare. The sport is much more physical now and that plays a part too.

[MontyB1]

The saga that never ends until maybe they let Horner go which it appears they don't want to or not yet anyway.

Doubts about weather the investigation into Horner was truly 'independent'

As there other article seems to have pointed out the QC that was apparently used (Name unknown), might not have been as independent as the investigation made out. Internal investigation apparently had him bag to rights you are gone, independent Horner says. Which is accurate an right, well its anyones guess but the rumours are still going on...

[G30M]

either these Dutch (apologies if I'm incorrect, I was told they were the same people who having been writing stuff since day 1) journalists know something we don't, or there's nothing happening with RB and CH

RB hasn't released any statements?

[dfox]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

The saga that never ends until maybe they let Horner go which it appears they don't want to or not yet anyway.

Doubts about weather the investigation into Horner was truly 'independent'

As there other article seems to have pointed out the QC that was apparently used (Name unknown), might not have been as independent as the investigation made out. Internal investigation apparently had him bag to rights you are gone, independent Horner says. Which is accurate an right, well its anyones guess but the rumours are still going on...

The witch hunt will continue until someone burns. Doesn't matter if he floats or not, he'll burn as long as people like this keep it front and center on everyone's social media account.

cancel culture is terrible.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Artemis

F1 drivers are really set apart from average people with their mental constitution, not in their physical training, IMO. It's the adrenaline addiction, the spatial awareness, the true connection with the car that sets them apart, not the fact that they have a PT train their core constantly. Human bodies adapt to physical demands and most humans could be put on some sort of training regimen to withstand those forces. But it's what's going on in their head that separates them from everyone else...

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

I dont think anyone is trying to go back to relitigate it. Max won fair and square…

That’s exactly what you’re doing every time you mention Verstappen’s performance in 2021 and 2022. And no, he didn’t win fair and square. He won, though. That's a fact.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

.

The drivers seldom did anything like this in the 50's, 60's or the seventies even and some of them enjoyed a free Marlboro in between racing

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by dfox

F1 drivers are really set apart from average people with their mental constitution, not in their physical training, IMO. It's the adrenaline addiction, the spatial awareness, the true connection with the car that sets them apart, not the fact that they have a PT train their core constantly. Human bodies adapt to physical demands and most humans could be put on some sort of training regimen to withstand those forces. But it's what's going on in their head that separates them from everyone else...

I had a 17.5" neck when playing American Football in college. We did all sorts of neck work primarily through a 4-way nautilus machine.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

That’s exactly what you’re doing every time you mention Verstappen’s performance in 2021 and 2022. And no, he didn’t win fair and square. He won, though. That's a fact.

2022 has nothing to do with 2021 - 2022 no one was even driving in the same universe as Max.
2021 he drove a slower car, and yes, I believe he won fair and square - and he didnt need Checo to crash into Ham on purpose like Bot did to help him.

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Ham started in the single best car in F1 and has had a competitive car every year he's been in F1. And yet, 17 years of competitive cars and only 7 WDCs.

Hamilton started his first year in a car he hadn't driven, on tracks he mostly hadn't driven on, and alongside the highly rated double world champion Alonso.
And still out drove him.

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Max started out in maybe the slowest car his first year,

It wasn't great...but he didn't do that well against Riccardo in the Red Bull either...sure he won his first race but at the expense of Daniel who was on track to win until he was pit stopped an extra time to gift the win to Verstappen.
I don't want to draw too much attention to Verstappens mediocre time alongside Ricciardo...but making out Hamilton isn't special is a hard sell especially if the idea is to make Verstappen out to the better driver.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Hamilton started his first year in a car he hadn't driven, on tracks he mostly hadn't driven on, and alongside the highly rated double world champion Alonso.
And still out drove him.


It wasn't great...but he didn't do that well against Riccardo in the Red Bull either...sure he won his first race but at the expense of Daniel who was on track to win until he was pit stopped an extra time to gift the win to Verstappen.
I don't want to draw too much attention to Verstappens mediocre time alongside Ricciardo...but making out Hamilton isn't special is a hard sell especially if the idea is to make Verstappen out to the better driver.

I believe there's more there vs his first year with Alo where he was favored. I'm not sure I'd say he outdrove him given 1 point separated them and it has been said Ham got upgrades that Alo did not. My true contention is that without the 80-100 hp, he's not as good as 7 WDCs would lead you to believe as seen by him driving the 2nd best car on the grid and no wins in over 2 full seasons, and by and large few podium places as well.

Ver was a 17 year old his first year and the same caveats of new car, new track can be made, and at 17 vs say 22/23/24 is an exponential difference in mentality and maturity. We saw at age 23 when Max won his first one how different he was...and then we've seen even more of that in 2022, 2023 and seeing another step up so far in 2024. And the records Max is breaking with the most parity across every level and the most competitive field ever in F1, says all you need to know about his driving ability.

Max vs his teammates.

[GuidoK]

The latest gossip :

So apparently the RB top are afraid that U2 might write a song about it? (something with someones brother being someones son in law....)
Ok, funny and sad at the same time of course...but the suggested song title is hilarious

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

2022 has nothing to do with 2021 - 2022 no one was even driving in the same universe as Max.

True. Verstappen was a class by himself. Still is and will be for a while. Which is weird why RBR had to cheat with accounting to help him. But cheat they did. That's two asterisks on Verstappen's career. But show me a driver without an asterisk, I'll show you a mediocre driver.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

True. Verstappen was a class by himself. Still is and will be for a while. Which is weird why RBR had to cheat with accounting to help him. But cheat they did. That's two asterisks on Verstappen's career. But show me a driver without an asterisk, I'll show you a mediocre driver.

There's a lot of * in F1, but spending 400K over budget on something that wasn't car related (especially after they changed the accounting rules after budgets were submitted) does not equate to cheating.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Hamilton started his first year in a car he hadn't driven, on tracks he mostly hadn't driven on, and alongside the highly rated double world champion Alonso.
And still out drove him.

Kimi still made him his b1tch

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

spending 400K over budget on something that wasn't car related (especially after they changed the accounting rules after budgets were submitted) does not equate to cheating.

It does. Hence the penalty.

[G MONEY]

It’s just sad that this bullshit is way more entertaining than the races

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

It does. Hence the penalty.

A minor infraction, as the rules state is just that...minor. It was nothing like the secret tests which provided a direct competitive advantage or the Ferrari fuel scandal, or when Ham was actually disqualified for actively cheating when he rode too low at COTA last year.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

A minor infraction, as the rules state is just that...minor. It was nothing like the secret tests which provided a direct competitive advantage or the Ferrari fuel scandal, or when Ham was actually disqualified for actively cheating when he rode too low at COTA last year.

More aboutism. Oi.

An infraction --irrespective of degree-- means outside the rules. In other words, cheating.

[G30M]

"Red Bull have denied rumours that Christian Horner is set to be sacked ahead of the Australian Grand Prix, reiterating he has the “full support of the shareholders”.

there are a lot of nameless faces - who is "Red Bull" that made that statement. surely they can name someone? the receptionist?

the only named people are these Dutch journalists who keep having their story refuted

no idea what's true and what's not

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/104557...-australian-gp

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

More aboutism. Oi.

An infraction --irrespective of degree-- means outside the rules. In other words, cheating.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Don't underestimate the age factor. Top athletes and fighter pilots: there is definitely a "prime time" between the early 20s to late 30s where they will be most physically capable.

Hamilton will be 40 years next January. Alonso 43 years. 20-something youngsters have a physical advantage.

Attachment 3407446

Attachment 3407445

It depends on the individual. My peak fitness and also appearance was around 42. Things do slow a bit after 50 and you get much more creaky after 55. I’m 57. Still bench 120kg and most people thing I’m mid 40s. Sometimes late 30s but perhaps those people are after something I credit it to a healthy diet of scotch and a lottery win in genetics.

Yes you can recover a bit quicker in your 20s (nowhere near as quickly as a teenager) but you are also discounting the incredible benefits of experience. People like Alonso slow down time in the moment so that he has 0.2 seconds to react when others have 0.1.