[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

.

I think the late Lauda rubber stamps that without any doubt.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

But compare for example with the formidable Scottish driver Jim Clark (WDC 1963 and 1965). A life and race career cut short in a fatal F2 crash in 1968, aged 32. During the Spa 1963 race (ending in torrential rain) he finished 8 miles and almost 5 minutes clear of P2 (Bruce McLaren) (see for example here (results) and here (video - no sound)).

It was never determined what was the exact cause of the crash at Hockenheim with his car so badly damaged hitting trees but suspension or tyre failure were suspected over driver error.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Sorry...I must have slipped into some sort of parallel universe where in his early years Verstappen didn't hardly have a race without crashing into someone or something. He even managed to crash on the way to the grid.
Don't you recall the pre race interview where he threatened to head butt the next journalist who asked him when he was going to stop crashing?

But hey if you guys want to believe he is in the same league as Senna (proper lol) then go for it.

I seem to remember Ham very similar early in his career and in the past 3 seasons he’s had without a doubt the most amount of contact with other drivers in the field - and I thought he was save for Alo the most experienced guy in the field yet sure doesn’t seem like the way he’s driving. But I guess when you’re actually forced to race your lack of race craft truly shows. Funny that Max can start from nearly any position on the grid, and during his record 10 wins in a row started well back in many races and moved through considerable portions of the field to do so.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

It remains very subjective to compare the excellence of drivers. Also different times, different standards, different cars, etc.

For NickyC: to get you a fascinating glimpse of a 'day at the races' in the early 60s featuring its rawness and perilously low safety standards for drivers, camera-men and public: 10-minute highlights - in color! - of the Spa-Francorchamps 1961 F1 race (race results here):

A crushing 1-2-3-4 for Ferrari at the 8 mile Spa circuit then who were streets ahead with their V6 engine design, and the shark nose is my favourite race Ferrari. Strangely all of them were destroyed by Maranello when the newer race cars came on later.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

It was never determined what was the exact cause of the crash at Hockenheim [of Jim Clark] but suspension or tyre failure were suspected over driver error.

Senna - Fangio - Stewart:


Chapman:

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Senna - Fangio - Stewart:
Attachment 3408911

Chapman:
Attachment 3408910

The ironic thing is that for some reason he chose not to race at the BOAC F5000 race at the much safer barrier lined Brands which was on at the same time instead deciding to do this non-championship F2 event at the dangerous German track.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

I agree that Lec is the next best on the grid after Max. Some of his shortcomings are Ferrari and a decent amount his own trying to outdrive the capabilities of the car (Miami 2023 quali)....

I still say a vast majority of Charlies shortcomings are #FerrariThings. The suspension on the Ferrari has never been right as seen with both drivers. It snaps and or burns through tires. Also engine reliability, failures and dealing with Ferrari aerodynamics compared to Newey's near perfection. Yes, Max is a tick better but LEC isn't far behind. And it's not his fault IMHO.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

A crushing 1-2-3-4 for Ferrari at the 8 mile Spa circuit then who were streets ahead with their V6 engine design, and the shark nose is my favourite race Ferrari. Strangely all of them were destroyed by Maranello when the newer race cars came on later.

Some drivers preferred wearing a polo shirt (average lap time: over 130mph).

[Car-Addicted]

Some times it is good to look at what some one out side Formula One thinks.
Is There Anything More Boring Lately Than F1?
March 13, 2024
As noted on March 11 by my colleague Jeff Charles, Deadspin, the once provocative and edgy sports website now reduced to a woke shadow of its former self, has been sold yet again, in the process laying off its entire staff as apparently, the new owners want something a bit more aligned with their vision.
Since the new owners are from Europe, one suspects they will try to convince anyone who might still bother reading the site — if, in fact, said people exist — that a) soccer is the most fantastic team sport there is (it’s not) and that b) F1 is the ultimate in motorsports entertainment. It’s not, for reasons that have become painfully obvious.



If individual dominance to the point of tedium is your definition of sports entertainment, F1 is your cup of tea. Last year, Max Verstappen of Team Red Bull won 19 of 22 races. His wingman … er, teammate Sergio Pérez, won two of the remaining three. The 2024 season is rapidly turning into the 2023 season redux, as Verstappen has won the first two races by over 22 and 13 seconds, respectively, over runner-up Pérez. Oh, what a thrill.
There’s no knocking Verstappen or his team. Clearly, they are the best in the business and deserve everything coming their way. However, when the only point of interest in your entire sport consists of whether or not a team employee sexually harassed another team employee — adding interest to the story for pop culture aficionados is that the accused harasser happens to be married to a former Spice Girl — you’ve got problems, Really, really big problems. Right now, F1 is the most boring spectacle in sports. You know Verstappen will win, and the only question is by how much. When the froth and furor over a car race focuses on who might finish eighth … you get the idea.

Compare this to NASCAR circa 2024. While the sport has declined in popularity recently, did you catch the action at the Atlanta race on February 25?
Three-wide photo finish. That, my friends, is auto racing at its finest.

F1 snobs—excuse me, fans—love to preen and preach about how excellent their sport is, how significant the technological advances in their cars are, etc., etc., ad nauseam. The latter is accurate, and the $140M or so each team is allowed to spend per year certainly shines in the competition by every team whose sponsor does not give them wings for third each time out.

F1 faces the unique dilemma of beginning to bore its potential audience to death at a time when its audience is at its height, particularly in the United States, courtesy of the “Formula One: Drive to Survive” Netflix series. How exactly are you supposed to entice people into continuing to watch a sport when you know who will win the next race, and all races after that, before it even starts? Hoping that perhaps people might think one of the drivers is cute or funny?

Short of making Verstappen start 30 seconds after everybody else does, it’s difficult to see precisely what F1 can do to create competitive balance in the current situation. It’s not healthy for the sport. You would think they know it, but in their usual vainglorious elitism, F1 doesn’t seem to want to admit that it has a massive issue on its hands for the foreseeable future. But that’s someone else’s problem. Like the new owner of Deadspin.
https://redstate.com/jerrywilson/202...an-f1-n2171313

Let the gnashing and grinding of teeth begin.

[CTSean]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Again...Most of the current drivers could have won championships in the Red Bull.
Same as they could have won championships in the Mercedes (as long as Hamilton wasn't the other driver).
Verstappen has learnt to be a very good driver, he just doesn't have the natural ability that sets apart the true greats.

Verstappen vrs Ricciardo

So you're saying Max isn't a great driver because at his worst, he was almost as good as Danny at his best?
Those 1st two years at Red Bull were also the only years Max was beaten in F1 by his team mate (he beat Sainz at Torro Rosso in his rookie year)

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Some times it is good to look at what some one out side Formula One thinks.
Is There Anything More Boring Lately Than F1?
March 13, 2024

Let the gnashing and grinding of teeth begin.

No gnashing of teeth here, if it's boring for some then that's down to the other teams' weaknesses, like Ferrari for instance who are getting top people in from other teams to eradicate their aero shortcomings and modify their cars to cut down on tyre deg to close in on the leaders.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Compare this to NASCAR circa 2024. While the sport has declined in popularity recently, did you catch the action at the Atlanta race on February 25?
Three-wide photo finish. That, my friends, is auto racing at its finest.

With the advent of stage racing (Fake yellow flags to make more commercial ******* and other unnecessary BS NASCAR it's just as bad or worse. Sure NASCAR will have different winners because the cars are so similar and stupid rules which repeatedly bunch the pack back up. Other than Daytona and Talladega just catch the last 15 to 20 laps and you will be good. I don't waste my time on the rest

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Some drivers preferred wearing a polo shirt (average lap time: over 130mph).

Attachment 3408913

Attachment 3408914

Attachment 3408920

Attachment 3408915

...and no seat belts as yet.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by CTSean

So you're saying Max isn't a great driver because at his worst, he was almost as good as Danny at his best?
Those 1st two years at Red Bull were also the only years Max was beaten in F1 by his team mate (he beat Sainz at Torro Rosso in his rookie year)

This Ric v. Max comparison is outdated. Ric is a shell of what he was. He can't even beat Yuki. Max's rookie form would demolish the current Ric.

[Car-Addicted]

Glad you guys are not in charge of the FIA. Remember it's motor sport to us but it entertainment to most of the world. With Tickets hitting $500.00 plus it's entertainment that pays the bills. We have had F1 dynasties before but the financial nature of the business was way different then.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Agree with most of this but believe Charlie could give Max a run for his money if not for #FerrariThings.

That said, watching Max reminds me of watching Senna back in the day. He has the "It" factor and scares virtually everyone.

Ferrari doing "#FerrariThings": even portrayed in the "Le Mans" movie (1971).

I always liked the nod of respect by the Ferrari pilot Erich Stahler (Siegfried Rauch) to his main rival Porsche pilot Michael Delaney (Steve McQueen) after the race. Hamilton and Verstappen should do that too, instead of the quick courtesy handshake.

And apart from the racing, of course also Lisa Belgetti (Elga Andersen) makes it worth viewing again.

00:22:00 to 00:22:45 (staredown)
01:42:52 to 01:43:20 (nod of respect)

Excellent documentary about the making of "Le Mans" (2015):

50:39 to 50:55: "My feeling has always been that the racing world is no less creative in expression than film itself. It's only an oddity because it's a blood sport."

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Ferrari doing "#FerrariThings": even portrayed in the "Le Mans" movie (1971).

Love that movie and Bullitt!!!!

Best car chase scene of all time

Don't care for Sheryl Crow much (Liberal Tart) but she wrote "Steve McQueen"

[Artemis]

According to TacticalRab, Horner is still in trouble.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Ferrari doing "#FerrariThings": even portrayed in the "Le Mans" movie (1971).

Hard to believe that the boss wanted Delaney to drive the 21 car later after he wrecked the 20 distracted by a Ferrari accident.

In real life it was Helmut Marko (RBR advisor) and van Lennep who won the 1971 Le Mans in a 917.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Hard to believe that the boss wanted Delaney to drive the 21 car later after he wrecked the 20 distracted by a Ferrari accident.

Delaney could file a complaint for "excessive controlling behavior".

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Delaney could file a complaint for "excessive controlling behavior".

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Delaney could file a complaint for "excessive controlling behavior".

More likely the Ferrari 8 driver would report Delaney to the stewards who tried to put him into the barriers on the last lap and lose his second place after an investigation