[dreamingat30fps]

Everything I've been reading indicates wholesale prices have been going down for a while now and inventory is up. I've also read that while retail prices have not changed much, dealers are a lot more willing to negotiate. I don't know if any of that is true as I have not tried buying anything recently.

I do follow some cars on sites like cargurus and many of them have been on the site for 60+ days are have seen several price reductions. That being said I think many dealers are still living under the impression they will get 2021 prices today.

For example I've been looking at the new F150s and the C8 for the past couple of years. Before I could find maybe one or two used one within a 200-300 mile radius. Now I can find many of them. I can also find used F150 under MSRP which before they were selling used ones for more than MSRP. The C8s are still mostly over MSRP but I see prices coming down and inventory going up on used ones.

I think the bubble is bursting and dealers are just sticking their head in the sand for as long as possible.

[M3WC]

[chassis]

Originally Posted by M3WC

More reliable industry data supporting a buyers’ market unfolding.

[Donatello.]

Sports car sales are down overall for Q3

[chassis]

Market continues to soften.

Price drops of 14% in one month on cars I am actively discussing with dealer salespeople.

Price drops of 12% over a range of cars over the past 3 months in my search window on Cargurus "price trends" page.

The preowned market keeps getting better. New vehicle production continues to increase. Buyers are strengthening their position in this market.

[chassis]

Preowned prices continue to soften.

[chassis]

2023 means more lower prices for preowned vehicles.

https://www.coxautoinc.com/news/2023...e-predictions/

[Donatello.]

lol that chart is really going out on a limb...

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by chassis

2023 means more lower prices for preowned vehicles.

https://www.coxautoinc.com/news/2023...e-predictions/

+1.

Every month that a potential car buyer can put off their purchase improves their position in the market.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

+1.

Every month that a potential car buyer can put off their purchase improves their position in the market.

Fully agree. CarGurus has a good price tracking tool. Preowned prices peaked in early 2022 and are falling noticeably now. All salespeople I spoke with during my recent vehicle search agreed that prices are falling.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/

[chassis]

Now is a good time to buy. Preowned buyers are facing a favorable market.

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-in...lay-available/

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by chassis

Now is a good time to buy. Preowned buyers are facing a favorable market.

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-in...lay-available/

Still not the time to buy. Used pricing is still stupid.

[chassis]

And preowned prices are better than they have been, and are getting better.

The bottom is dropping out of the preowned market, so the deals will become juicier over time.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by chassis

And preowned prices are better than they have been, and are getting better.

The bottom is dropping out of the preowned market, so the deals will become juicier over time.

Nothing, that I have seen, is juicy yet.

Average driver classics still nuts, ND Miata & 2005+ Elise/Exige=still nuts. etc.....

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

Nothing, that I have seen, is juicy yet.

Average driver classics still nuts, ND Miata & 2005+ Elise/Exige=still nuts. etc.....

Quite likely to be the case. Garden variety, and some not-so-garden-variety, late model car deals are getting sweeter by the day.

Miatas, Golf Rs and 911s, among others, will always be in insufficient supply and prices will react accordingly.

[Alfisti]

Yeah i don't think "drivers cars" are a good barometer. Especially those under $100K because it's not ike the rate rises are killing those owners like a 600K ferrari. Anything analog is holding it's value as people are just not selling them in high enough quantities to meet demand.

Best to view the overall market.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Yeah i don't think "drivers cars" are a good barometer. Especially those under $100K because it's not ike the rate rises are killing those owners like a 600K ferrari. Anything analog is holding it's value as people are just not selling them in high enough quantities to meet demand.

Best to view the overall market.

Yeah these "drivers cars" and weekend fun cars are more of a luxury vs a necessity purchase, so rates dont have as big of an affect, and prices tend to be pretty stable on them.

As for overall used prices, went with a friend looking for a new vehicle this weekend and hit a bunch of dealerships and looked at a ton of cars.

Her budget is 30-40k. Looking for a small SUV/Crossover. Since new cars are still basically all special order, we checked out a few of the used cars on the lot. Nearly every one that had low miles and a year or 2 old was still outrageous. Within a few grand of buying new. This was at Toyota, Honda subaru, mazda, etc. For example, could buy a 2020 Outback Limited with 20k miles on it for $35k, or order a new one, with a 4-6 month wait, for 38-40k.

Pricier cars seem to have a wider gap between used and new, but in that "affordable" range, where people are usually in the "i need something soon that i can afford" category, prices are still pretty inflated. The high end cars coming down in price would affect the overall price index, but it definitely doesnt reflect the true status of the used car market.

[Alfisti]

Man I recently looked at the price for a "reliable and boring as could be" daily to replace my ageing Saab that is costing me a couple grand a year to keep on the road. Honestly i had to spend $15K before I even got REMOTELY close to something that didn't seem to need as much work as my Saab did. It was properly crazy. In the end the math said keep the saab.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by chassis

Now is a good time to buy. Preowned buyers are facing a favorable market.

I would definitely wait. The wholesale market is dropping out from under dealers and resellers. They will eventually have no choice at some point and have to start wholesaling inventory. If not...they will be quickly be under water, if not already. All the current used inventory was acquired at sky high prices. Wholesale market dropped 15% last year, all while dealers try to hold the line...only dropping average used inventory prices 3.8% last year. These resellers are playing a game of chicken and they are going to lose. Ask for a trade-in quote from these dealers, you will see what they really think used car values are at. It isn’t anywhere near what they have their used inventory priced at.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by chassis

Quite likely to be the case. Garden variety, and some not-so-garden-variety, late model car deals are getting sweeter by the day.

Miatas, Golf Rs and 911s, among others, will always be in insufficient supply and prices will react accordingly.

Miatas always insufficient supply? lol ok hoss

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Yeah i don't think "drivers cars" are a good barometer. Especially those under $100K because it's not ike the rate rises are killing those owners like a 600K ferrari. Anything analog is holding it's value as people are just not selling them in high enough quantities to meet demand.

Best to view the overall market.

Are you saying rates are killing people that buy $600k cars? If so, LOL. Those people have enough $ to not care & not have it hurt

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

Are you saying rates are killing people that buy $600k cars? If so, LOL. Those people have enough $ to not care & not have it hurt

A good portion of those buys are business decisions, investors not car guys. At 7% it starts to hurt the business case.