[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Levi

Off-topic:

If all is true, that is unfortunately how it works these days, and could explain our decline in progress. You don't get a position according to your skills, but according to your network, i.e. connections.

Its really frustraiting when you're exactly the type of person that these companies should want. I have a masters degree and I did my dissertation on grand prix car aerodynamics. I did formula sae in college. I've worked for a legitimate race team. And its not like I had bad grades. And yet I haven't had an interview since September.

Worse is a friend of mine who had two internships at OEMs, Chrysler and BMW, and can't find a permanent job. He hasn't had an interview since August.

I'm flabbergasted as to how neither of have full time jobs at this point.


But my whining is pretty OT. So I think I'll leave it at that.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

So will someone explain to me again WHY BMW can't run an NA V8 and had to go with a turbo 6?
Merc is STILL running a V8, but added TT's!

I re-read the articles on the Lightning Lap from C&D and saw the Merc SL was QUICKER than the M4.

What in the hell is the GT350 going to do to the M3/4?

What difference does it make if BMW uses a I6 or a V8? BMW is just going design/engineer one that's relatively muted anyway (see: F10 M5) so if it's sound you're looking for, you probably wouldn't have got it. As for everything else, HP/TQ, it's irrelevant because everyone in the class/segment is going to be within range of each other anyway, the GT350 is not a good example of what BMW should have done to the M3/M4.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

So will someone explain to me again WHY BMW can't run an NA V8 and had to go with a turbo 6?
Merc is STILL running a V8, but added TT's!

I re-read the articles on the Lightning Lap from C&D and saw the Merc SL was QUICKER than the M4.

What in the hell is the GT350 going to do to the M3/4?

Obviously the BMW philosophy has changed in the last few years. The M has to fight to make a decent car instead of being encouraged. Greed and complacency is what comes to my mind just as GM, Ford and Chrysler operated pre '08 crash. Now the Detroit trio is investing heavily to rebuild the reputation while Germans, mostly BMW btw, are relying on their badge to sell cars and focusing on Chinese market. I just read a report that said 20%+ of Ford Explorer customers traded in their Merc, BMW SUVs and bought fully loaded Explorer. I think the latest performance models from Detroit gang are going to hit them hard. BMW seems more focused on non value added "i" brands that nobody wants at this point in time and non-sense GT models than developing 3-5 kick-ass models. They can't compete with Tesla either. I looked at their line-up and the only cars I would consider are 228, 235 and 6 GC.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

BMW seems more focused on non value added "i" brands that nobody wants at this point in time and non-sense GT models than developing 3-5 kick-ass models. They can't compete with Tesla either. I looked at their line-up and the only cars I would consider are 228, 235 and 6 GC.

The i brand is awesome, what are you talking about? And its not that they dont want to compete against Tesla, its that there is currently no incentive to. Competing with a company when there is no need to is just bad business. So Tesla and BMW are building their own cars in their own markets.

BMW and Tesla are the front runners in electric car tech at the moment. And they do different things well. BMW is better at chassis and interior design, and Telsa is better at batteries and driveline. The best part is that theyve realized it, which is why Tesla and BMW are partnering in the electric car market.

Also, if you had taken the time to look at an i3 properly, youd realize how incredible it is that you can buy that car for $41K. Ill agree that the rest of the BMW line could use some slimming and improvement. But the i brand is utterly fantastic, even in the current early stages.

"Non-value added" is a really silly thing to say.

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

Obviously the BMW philosophy has changed in the last few years. The M has to fight to make a decent car instead of being encouraged. Greed and complacency is what comes to my mind just as GM, Ford and Chrysler operated pre '08 crash. Now the Detroit trio is investing heavily to rebuild the reputation while Germans, mostly BMW btw, are relying on their badge to sell cars and focusing on Chinese market. I just read a report that said 20%+ of Ford Explorer customers traded in their Merc, BMW SUVs and bought fully loaded Explorer. I think the latest performance models from Detroit gang are going to hit them hard. BMW seems more focused on non value added "i" brands that nobody wants at this point in time and non-sense GT models than developing 3-5 kick-ass models. They can't compete with Tesla either. I looked at their line-up and the only cars I would consider are 228, 235 and 6 GC.

+1
I couldn't agree more in every way!

BMW got their start by making fantastic drivers cars for driving enthusiasts. Today, BMW is more likely to make a car that appeals the the masses and has left the people who helped build the brand to what it is, out in the cold.
Who are we to argue and I'm sure BMW will quickly point to the fact that they're selling more cars today than they ever have.
So this leaves us with fewer cars in the line-up that appeal to us. I'm with you on the models I'm considering from BMW: 228, 235 and M2.

The major problem is that this GT350 is going to have over 500hp and more than likely cost about the same as the M2 with 380hp. I'm finding it hard to justify paying the same for less. The GT350 is going to be a fully baked car and will be able to compete at a global level in every way. They are serious with this car, and it shows.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

+1
I couldn't agree more in every way!

BMW got their start by making fantastic drivers cars for driving enthusiasts. Today, BMW is more likely to make a car that appeals the the masses and has left the people who helped build the brand to what it is, out in the cold.
Who are we to argue and I'm sure BMW will quickly point to the fact that they're selling more cars today than they ever have.
So this leaves us with fewer cars in the line-up that appeal to us. I'm with you on the models I'm considering from BMW: 228, 235 and M2.

The major problem is that this GT350 is going to have over 500hp and more than likely cost about the same as the M2 with 380hp. I'm finding it hard to justify paying the same for less. The GT350 is going to be a fully baked car and will be able to compete at a global level in every way. They are serious with this car, and it shows.

If this starts under 60 I'll be shocked, because this truly is a fully baked car. I will also be pissed.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

+1
I couldn't agree more in every way!

BMW got their start by making fantastic drivers cars for driving enthusiasts. Today, BMW is more likely to make a car that appeals the the masses and has left the people who helped build the brand to what it is, out in the cold.
Who are we to argue and I'm sure BMW will quickly point to the fact that they're selling more cars today than they ever have.
So this leaves us with fewer cars in the line-up that appeal to us. I'm with you on the models I'm considering from BMW: 228, 235 and M2.

The major problem is that this GT350 is going to have over 500hp and more than likely cost about the same as the M2 with 380hp. I'm finding it hard to justify paying the same for less. The GT350 is going to be a fully baked car and will be able to compete at a global level in every way. They are serious with this car, and it shows.

Yep all you need too look at are the massive brakes and wheels. I am ready to get M2 but damn the GT350 is insane. 10.5 rim in front stock!? Good grief!!

For me It's the sum of the parts and the character and feel the car offers no matter the brand. Can't wait to read reviews. Ford is firing on all cylinders!

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

The i brand is awesome, what are you talking about? And its not that they dont want to compete against Tesla, its that there is currently no incentive to. Competing with a company when there is no need to is just bad business. So Tesla and BMW are building their own cars in their own markets.

BMW and Tesla are the front runners in electric car tech at the moment. And they do different things well. BMW is better at chassis and interior design, and Telsa is better at batteries and driveline. The best part is that theyve realized it, which is why Tesla and BMW are partnering in the electric car market.

Also, if you had taken the time to look at an i3 properly, youd realize how incredible it is that you can buy that car for $41K. Ill agree that the rest of the BMW line could use some slimming and improvement. But the i brand is utterly fantastic, even in the current early stages.

"Non-value added" is a really silly thing to say.

When I look at i3 the first thing that I think of is running to the bathroom! Who the hell pays 40k for that turd!? Certainly not Germans!!

Carbon fibre and tech is fine but they need to hire better design team. For now I'll take good ol diesel that is 100y old tech if I want to be green. You need to travel a bit instead of getting your knowledge from Internet articles.

[omegaSMP300]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

The major problem is that this GT350 is going to have over 500hp and more than likely cost about the same as the M2 with 380hp. I'm finding it hard to justify paying the same for less. The GT350 is going to be a fully baked car and will be able to compete at a global level in every way. They are serious with this car, and it shows.

I don't see the GT350 being a direct competitor to the M2.... That would be the M3/M4 in my opinion (performance wise). Regardless of how the car performs (there are cars faster than the m3/m4 for equal or less) there is more to it than that. Not all GT350 owners will be able to afford a fully loaded M3/M4 (I believe builds can get close to 90k with options like Carbon Ceramic Breaks). So, if you want a lot of power at an "affordable" price well the Mustang is a a great option.

I will venture to say that the M3/M4's overall quality will still be superior. I don't see Ford having a better infotainment system, nicer leather, or overall having a better build quality than a BMW. Which in my mind is what separates a German sports car from their American counterparts.

Ford is to be commended for keeping the NA V8. And the numbers they have presented us with so far are looking good but I will wait until I see reviews on how the car really drives/take one for a test drive myself before I make any final conclusions of my own.

The GT350 is an American track oriented car where as the M3/M4 is a terrific blend of luxury and sportiness. And I think we can all agree the M3/M4's particular blend has always been tough to beat.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

When I look at i3 the first thing that I think of is running to the bathroom! Who the hell pays 40k for that turd!? Certainly not Germans!!

Carbon fibre and tech is fine but they need to hire better design team. For now I'll take good ol diesel that is 100y old tech if I want to be green. You need to travel a bit instead of getting your knowledge from Internet articles.

Well this is embarrassing. My father owns one and I drive it nearly every day (we commute together). Its hardly a turd. And I personally believe that I can say with a bit more authority than you can. I actually believe it to be one of the best cars that you can buy from BMW right now.

You know what was a turd? The 328 loaner I had last week. That was a turd.

[omegaSMP300]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Well this is embarrassing. My father owns one and I drive it nearly every day (we commute together). Its hardly a turd. And I personally believe that I can say with a bit more authority than you can. I actually believe it to be one of the best cars that you can buy from BMW right now.

You know what was a turd? The 328 loaner I had last week. That was a turd.

He might be referring to the exterior design of the car. I for one cannot speak to it's driving dynamics as I have not yet driven one (though I have heard good things). But aesthetically I am not drawn to it and even for a DD I would still prefer it if my car was one I enjoyed looking at. However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I am sure there are some that like it's styling.

[ShocknAwe]

The current 328 is abominable. Never should the base model flagship have strayed so far from core philosophy of what made BMW, BMW. You want evidence that the company has changed it's focus? There it is. Out in plain sight.

I actually think the i3 is probably the most interesting looking EV out there. It reminds me a little of the Honda Element. That's about all I can say about it without being rude though.

[BrokenVert]

As far as the exterior goes ill say 3 things.

1) It looks better in person.

2) It looks much better in darker colors.

3) Im not the biggest fan of the looks either.

Its a funky looking car, but funky gets attention. Ive had people walk into the street in order to talk to me about the car. Its insane. It gets noticed, and thats what BMW wants right now.


However, it drives wonderfully. Its really light on its feet and surprisingly fun to put into a corner. Theres also something fun about opening the door and seeing the exposed CF door frame.

[omegaSMP300]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

The current 328 is abominable. Never should the base model flagship have strayed so far from core philosophy of what made BMW, BMW. You want evidence that the company has changed it's focus? There it is. Out in plain sight.

I actually think the i3 is probably the most interesting looking EV out there.

I agree with you. I actually am not a huge fan of the new 3 series. But I also do not see it as a flagship car. The focus of the car industry in general is changing and BMW is adapting to it. Lets just hope the next generation 3 series will be an improvement, well in our eyes.

I also agree that the i3 is quite interesting to look at. If BMW had turned the Active E 1 series into the body for their i3 I would have looked into that car as a DD. As it stands now though, if the time comes for me to look for an EV I will be looking elsewhere.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by omegaSMP300

I also agree that the i3 is quite interesting to look at. If BMW had turned the Active E 1 series into the body for their i3 I would have looked into that car as a DD. As it stands now though, if the time comes for me to look for an EV I will be looking elsewhere.

My father was a part of the ActiveE program. I actually preferred that car to the i3 in nearly every way.

Speaking of it. We actually had an overlap with the purchase of the i3 and the return of the ActiveE. So I got to have both of them together.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by omegaSMP300

The GT350 is an American muscle car (emphasis on Muscle).

This is where I disagree.

The GT500 yes. The GT350 no, and that is the point of the car. It wasn't then and it isn't now either.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by omegaSMP300

I don't see the GT350 being a direct competitor to the M2.... That would be the M3/M4 in my opinion (performance wise). Regardless of how the car performs (there are cars faster than the m3/m4 for equal or less) there is more to it than that. Not all GT350 owners will be able to afford a fully loaded M3/M4 (I believe builds can get close to 90k with options like Carbon Ceramic Breaks). So, if you want a lot of power at an "affordable" price well the Mustang is a a great option.

I will venture to say that the M3/M4's overall quality will still be superior. I don't see Ford having a better infotainment system, nicer leather, or overall having a better build quality than a BMW. Which in my mind is what separates a German sports car from their American counterparts.

Ford is to be commended for keeping the NA V8. And the numbers they have presented us with so far are looking good but I will wait until I see reviews on how the car really drives/take one for a test drive myself before I make any final conclusions of my own.

The GT350 is an American muscle car (emphasis on Muscle) where as the M3/M4 is a terrific blend of luxury and sportiness. And I think we can all agree the M3/M4's particular blend has always been tough to beat.

I'm having a strong hunch that the buyer more concerned with the driving experience will opt for the GT350. The buyer wanting a superior blend of performance and luxury will opt for the more practical F8X.

The GT350 is shaping up to have everything a driver could want in a sports coupe. Seeing as the GTPP is getting praise for its overall driving competence, the extensive list of upgrades should rocket the GT350 into another league.

If I had the money I'd have a hard time thinking about anything else; the last thing on my mind would be hoping that it has ample luxury and/or amenities.

[omegaSMP300]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

This is where I disagree.

The GT500 yes. The GT350 no, and that is the point of the car. It wasn't then and it isn't now either.

You're right agreed. I didn't want to use the term muscle but I couldn't come up with another word to save my life.

[rjd598]

Is this really coming out next year? The wait is brutal

[hellrotm]

I couldn't care less about the GT500. GT350 is perfect, don't care about a straight line FI muscle car. Same goes for the last gen mustang, much rather have a Boss 302 over a GT500. I still can not believe Ford built a normally aspirated flat plane crank V8, that revs over 8,000. Amazing!

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by omegaSMP300

The GT350 is an American muscle car (emphasis on Muscle) where as the M3/M4 is a terrific blend of luxury and sportiness. And I think we can all agree the M3/M4's particular blend has always been tough to beat.

GT350 is definitely not a muscle car. It is a track focused car, built from conception to annihilate road courses. Infotainment systems and all that crap, owners of the GT350 don't really care about that. First thing on the mind is the bespoke flat plane crank 5.2L V8, that revs over 8k.

The M4 is now a GT car, with some stellar track capabilities. You want luxury and performance, get a M4, C63, RCF, or RS5.

But as far as the GT350, track performance wise it is in a different league.

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

The i brand is awesome, what are you talking about? And its not that they dont want to compete against Tesla, its that there is currently no incentive to. Competing with a company when there is no need to is just bad business. So Tesla and BMW are building their own cars in their own markets.

BMW and Tesla are the front runners in electric car tech at the moment. And they do different things well. BMW is better at chassis and interior design, and Telsa is better at batteries and driveline. The best part is that theyve realized it, which is why Tesla and BMW are partnering in the electric car market.

Also, if you had taken the time to look at an i3 properly, youd realize how incredible it is that you can buy that car for $41K. Ill agree that the rest of the BMW line could use some slimming and improvement. But the i brand is utterly fantastic, even in the current early stages.

"Non-value added" is a really silly thing to say.

I think you've got that wrong, Teslar partnered with Mercedes (DaimerAG sold there 4% in Teslar last month), they have a partnership with Toyota, another deal in the works with Nissan and are talking to BMW but don't have a tie up yet.