[Franzino]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I'd take a Z4M vert over an M3 vert, but I'd rather have the M3 coupe than Z4M coupe. The M3 looks better outside (subjective, but I think most agree), has a more comfortable, higher quality interior, better visibility, handles better, can fit 4 extra wheels/tires in the back seat with a jack/tools/luggage in the trunk (track), can have people in the back seat, and has hugely better aftermarket support in every aspect. The only benefits I see to the z4mc are chassis stiffness (but that doesn't seem to payoff, since it handles worse) and rarity (but that's only a benefit if you like rarity for rarity, otherwise it just means worse aftermarket support and higher part pricing for parts unique to the car).

For me personally the e46 M3 look good, but the Z4M coupe is awesome; way more timeless and more special. But the discussion was e46 M3 + M2...so all those benefits you say about the e46 M3 are also in the M2.... That is why I said that a M2 + Z4M makes way more sense to me (bigger difference between the two) then owning a M2 + e46 M3... If you are talking only one car without the M2 and you need the choice between a Z4M and e46 M3 then indeed the e46 M3 makes more sense as you only car.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Franzino

For me personally the e46 M3 look good, but the Z4M coupe is awesome; way more timeless and more special. But the discussion was e46 M3 + M2...so all those benefits you say about the e46 M3 are also in the M2.... That is why I said that a M2 + Z4M makes way more sense to me (bigger difference between the two) then owning a M2 + e46 M3... If you are talking only one car without the M2 and you need the choice between a Z4M and e46 M3 then indeed the e46 M3 makes more sense as you only car.

I see what you're saying, but actually think that's more of a "problem" with the e46 M3 and M2 in general. Nothing short of an SUV really makes sense as a compliment-- they're jacks of all trades, masters of none. Close enough to a sports car that that's redundant. Practical enough that a full size 4 door is a bit redundant.

I do agree the z4m is more different than the M2 than the e46m is. I just get hung up on the way it is more different are the ways that it's worse than the e46m.

I don't agree it has a timeless design at all, though. Actually, I find it ugly... and VERY period specific (not timeless). But, I like the z3mc, so maybe I have bad taste in car looks :P

[W///]

Originally Posted by Franzino

Thanks and a good choice
The Z4MR is indeed a lovely car... I love mine with my mods (CSL wheels, AP racing brakes, Bilstein suspension).. It's awesome to have an open top, more old school roadster with an NA engine VS a modern turbocharged, very handy fast pocket rocket. They are both great! But if for some reason I could only keep one BMW M, then I would keep my Z4M... I love them both; but the Z4MR is more speciale to me. It's my first M car that is totally modified to my own driving taste and I'm emotionally attached to it.

I've had the car for about 2 weeks now (it's been on jackstands most of the time for maintenance ) and I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I've driven the E46 M3 before and it was a great car, but I still very much preferred my E92 M3 compared to it.

For whatever reason, the S54 in the Z4MR just makes it a different story for me. I hate to sound cliche, but talk about a raw car. Just a great machine to take out if you ever need to clear your mind

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by W///

I've had the car for about 2 weeks now (it's been on jackstands most of the time for maintenance ) and I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I've driven the E46 M3 before and it was a great car, but I still very much preferred my E92 M3 compared to it.

For whatever reason, the S54 in the Z4MR just makes it a different story for me. I hate to sound cliche, but talk about a raw car. Just a great machine to take out if you ever need to clear your mind

That is exactly my feeling about the Z4M

[W///]

Originally Posted by Franzino

That is exactly my feeling about the Z4M

I love that it's completely one dimensional. It's stiff, the controls are heavier than the M's I've driven for some reason, the view is special, and of course wind in the hair.

Just 1 sport button, no EDC, no special MDM mode.

Again, I hate to sound cliche, but they really don't make cars like this anymore. I can totally why some people either love it or hate it.

While I do think the Z4M is a better companion to the M2, I think the M2 and E46 M3 can coexist. The engines are just so completely different, and that to me is enough to maybe justify having both.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by W///

I've had the car for about 2 weeks now (it's been on jackstands most of the time for maintenance ) and I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I've driven the E46 M3 before and it was a great car, but I still very much preferred my E92 M3 compared to it.

For whatever reason, the S54 in the Z4MR just makes it a different story for me. I hate to sound cliche, but talk about a raw car. Just a great machine to take out if you ever need to clear your mind

So THIS is finally what you decided to get ?!?!?!

Love the choice, but a far cry from the F80 or M2.

My dad's Z4MC was always the favorite car either one of us has owned - we have good nature arguments now about which is better, his or the 981.

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by W///

While I do think the Z4M is a better companion to the M2, I think the M2 and E46 M3 can coexist. The engines are just so completely different, and that to me is enough to maybe justify having both.

Great companions

[stefan]

Originally Posted by gtr

I do not know why since both the E46M3 and the F87 M2 are so similar but I'm in the mood to buy a E46 M3 beater.

The reasoning is perhaps all my cars are EPS and I miss the old school raw hydraulic steering feel.

Beater?? Why? The E46 M3 is not a beater car. It will do nothing but drain your wallet and demands weekends of work. Not to mention it deserves better than to be a beater car. It almost produces as much power as your M2 without any turbos. It has superior steering and pedal feel. Superior sound and throttle response. It falls behind only in torque, gadgets, and handling, and even handling can be addressed with coils.

Any M2 owner *should* be thinking about an E46 M3. I would argue it's much more the driver's car.

Having owned both, I do draw the line at the E36. That car just is not reliable, no matter what you do.

[W///]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

So THIS is finally what you decided to get ?!?!?!

Love the choice, but a far cry from the F80 or M2.

My dad's Z4MC was always the favorite car either one of us has owned - we have good nature arguments now about which is better, his or the 981.

Haha, pretty left field right? To be honest, your posts kind of pushed me that way too, if I'm honest. I would have loved 981 GTS or GT4, but they're out of my price range. I just loved the idea of adding a proper sports car/2 seater. You also mentioned how much your dad loved his Z4MC, and I've noticed that the prior owners still talk about their cars and how they miss it

When I crunched the numbers, the F80 optioned out the way I wanted, with a hefty discount, still cost more than I paid for my E36 M3, E92 M3 and Z4M COMBINED! That just made no sense to me.

An M2 would have been epic, but I just didn't see the point in adding yet another 2 door 4 seater.

So that made me really start to focus on the Z4M's, especially before they start going up in value. I absolutely love the way the Z4MC looks, but ended up going for the Z4MR so that I can enjoy the car with the top down (yet another difference to my M3's). Not to mention the Roadies are significantly cheaper, so I can use that money towards mods and repairs. Super happy with the decision so far.

If I ever want something with torque, I might just turbo the E36 M3 and call it a day

Originally Posted by Franzino

Great companions

That is one hell of a sight!! Love the hardtop on your car!

[eau_rouge]

Luckily I will have both in my driveway very soon - to answer the threads question

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by W///

That is one hell of a sight!! Love the hardtop on your car!

Hardtop


No Hardtop


The day I bought it (with the OEM suspension and OEM brakes); previous owner already fitted the CSL wheels from his M3 CSL.

[M3 Adjuster]

I think Franzino and W/// need to start a new thread ... .

Interesting choice W/// Photos ??

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by W///

Haha, pretty left field right? To be honest, your posts kind of pushed me that way too, if I'm honest. I would have loved 981 GTS or GT4, but they're out of my price range. I just loved the idea of adding a proper sports car/2 seater. You also mentioned how much your dad loved his Z4MC, and I've noticed that the prior owners still talk about their cars and how they miss it

When I crunched the numbers, the F80 optioned out the way I wanted, with a hefty discount, still cost more than I paid for my E36 M3, E92 M3 and Z4M COMBINED! That just made no sense to me.

An M2 would have been epic, but I just didn't see the point in adding yet another 2 door 4 seater.

So that made me really start to focus on the Z4M's, especially before they start going up in value. I absolutely love the way the Z4MC looks, but ended up going for the Z4MR so that I can enjoy the car with the top down (yet another difference to my M3's). Not to mention the Roadies are significantly cheaper, so I can use that money towards mods and repairs. Super happy with the decision so far.

If I ever want something with torque, I might just turbo the E36 M3 and call it a day

You know, the aspect of big-time torque is not something I miss from the N54/N55 days - yes, it is absolutely good fun and turbo cars have an argument for more practical and day to day utilization of that respective strength...but I also think that it can get old. And the reason that it got old for me was because there was little to no drama associated with that speed. Does that make sense?

The Z4Ms and other naturally aspirated gems really do tick that experience box - similar to the way that a MT can be described as more involving (and I have a PDK). There's something to the more analog experience, even if you know the whole time that the newer or turboed stuff is objectively better from a performance standpoint.

If you're in this segment, you are looking for something that makes you smile and makes the hair stand up on your neck. Like JC said, I want the car to put its hand down my pants at some point and have a little go. no car has ever done that for me (and I have been lucky enough to drive quite a few) like the Z4M and 981 - they are very special in that kind of way.

I would put the E46 M3 in the same sort of bucket...

[W///]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I think Franzino and W/// need to start a new thread ... .

Interesting choice W/// Photos ??

Sure. Got a small journal going here:
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1342987

Still figuring out what the car needs while I collect parts for it. Going to thoroughly enjoy it during Spring and Fall!

Originally Posted by dmboone25

You know, the aspect of big-time torque is not something I miss from the N54/N55 days - yes, it is absolutely good fun and turbo cars have an argument for more practical and day to day utilization of that respective strength...but I also think that it can get old. And the reason that it got old for me was because there was little to no drama associated with that speed. Does that make sense?

The Z4Ms and other naturally aspirated gems really do tick that experience box - similar to the way that a MT can be described as more involving (and I have a PDK). There's something to the more analog experience, even if you know the whole time that the newer or turboed stuff is objectively better from a performance standpoint.

If you're in this segment, you are looking for something that makes you smile and makes the hair stand up on your neck. Like JC said, I want the car to put its hand down my pants at some point and have a little go. no car has ever done that for me (and I have been lucky enough to drive quite a few) like the Z4M and 981 - they are very special in that kind of way.

I would put the E46 M3 in the same sort of bucket...

Agreed with everything you say. These older cars definitely have character. Should the OP want to pick one up (at least a good one anyway), better do it now as all these NA M cars are going to go up soon. I've been keeping an eye out on E46s and they've gone up a decent amount just this year.

[DivideBYZero]

Originally Posted by stefan

Beater?? Why? The E46 M3 is not a beater car. It will do nothing but drain your wallet and demands weekends of work. Not to mention it deserves better than to be a beater car. It almost produces as much power as your M2 without any turbos. It has superior steering and pedal feel. Superior sound and throttle response. It falls behind only in torque, gadgets, and handling, and even handling can be addressed with coils.

Any M2 owner *should* be thinking about an E46 M3. I would argue it's much more the driver's car.

Having owned both, I do draw the line at the E36. That car just is not reliable, no matter what you do.

I've owned both, too and I completely disagree on the steering front. In fact, so did BMW. The CSL and the later CS models had a revised steering rack to improve the situation.

It's a great drive, but no where near the M2. I will agree on the throttle response E46 Vs M2, but the E92 holds that crown for me. That throttle response was explosive.

[gtr]

Originally Posted by stefan

Beater?? Why? The E46 M3 is not a beater car. It will do nothing but drain your wallet and demands weekends of work. Not to mention it deserves better than to be a beater car. It almost produces as much power as your M2 without any turbos. It has superior steering and pedal feel. Superior sound and throttle response. It falls behind only in torque, gadgets, and handling, and even handling can be addressed with coils.

Any M2 owner *should* be thinking about an E46 M3. I would argue it's much more the driver's car.

Having owned both, I do draw the line at the E36. That car just is not reliable, no matter what you do.

I picked up one. The servicing will cost as much as the car. If you add the part for new cooling system, new belts pulleys, and new front and rear bushings over hall it's 3-4 grand, not to mention stoptech, shocks, and tires putting it over $13,000 in parts alone. My in law tracks his csl and he has extra coilover and extra set of oem CSL wheel that I would need to boat over here for install.

I can feel the steering but it's way slower than the M2 nor as accurate probably due to the M2 suspension geometry with less slop.

I have no interest in the z4m. This is due to the fact that it's more focused and I already have a GT4 in my garage. The M3 I feel is more everyday car than the z4m and it will hold me over when I sell the M2 while I wait for the M2cs allocation when that happens.

Non turbo feels way better and very strong low end. The M2 is strong but delayed throttle from standstill due to the lag. BMW did pretty good job hiding it but it's there every time you leave the red light. I wish they make a M2 cs with non turbo and improved csl rack as the ultimate everyday drivers car. I so regret selling my 997.1rs, not even the lotus Elise feels as raw and racecar like.

[W///]

Originally Posted by gtr

I picked up one. The servicing will cost as much as the car. If you add the part for new cooling system, new belts pulleys, and new front and rear bushings over hall it's 3-4 grand, not to mention stoptech, shocks, and tires putting it over $13,000 in parts alone. My in law tracks his csl and he has extra coilover and extra set of oem CSL wheel that I would need to boat over here for install.

I can feel the steering but it's way slower than the M2 nor as accurate probably due to the M2 suspension geometry with less slop.

I have no interest in the z4m. This is due to the fact that it's more focused and I already have a GT4 in my garage. The M3 I feel is more everyday car than the z4m and it will hold me over when I sell the M2 while I wait for the M2cs allocation when that happens.

Non turbo feels way better and very strong low end. The M2 is strong but delayed throttle from standstill due to the lag. BMW did pretty good job hiding it but it's there every time you leave the red light. I wish they make a M2 cs with non turbo and improved csl rack as the ultimate everyday drivers car. I so regret selling my 997.1rs, not even the lotus Elise feels as raw and racecar like.

Ah, didn't know you already had a GT4 in your fleet, that kind of changes everything. Very nice cars you have!

Got pics of the new E46? Have you also checked the VANOS and subframe? I'd probably do that sooner rather than later.

[gtr]

Originally Posted by W///

Ah, didn't know you already had a GT4 in your fleet, that kind of changes everything. Very nice cars you have!

Got pics of the new E46? Have you also checked the VANOS and subframe? I'd probably do that sooner rather than later.

Quick cell phone pic, it's snow and salt here.

I got it from BMW dealer and they changed the VANOS seal, claimed no cracks or rust on the subframe, oil change, brake fluid, Fuel pump and filter prior to delivery. The car feels faster than expected. Much like the M2 but you don't feel the loss of torque since the N/A engine is instant.

It does have full exhaust and intake which I'm not a fan of the exhaust. I plan on doing a full cooling with maintenance 2, with steering fluid, injector cleaned, pulleys/belts/tensioners and worn bushings.

Afterwards would be brakes and suspension.