[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

I actually wouldn't blanket the Germans like that. While BMW has coasted, Porsche and Mercedes and even Audi to a degree are still rocking on handling and dynamics.

Ha, fair point. No doubt that MB has raised their game, and Audi has at least gotten creative in dealing with their ridiculous engine placement. I suspect the G series will be even bigger and number and we'll continue to get nothing smaller and certainly no rwd 2er sedan.

If Porsche ever gets around to their small sedan, it's game over. The new Panamera just looks absurdly good on the road and the wagon should be even better.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by 86merc

Someone also mentioned the tires the Camaro uses are very wide. They are. They have to be due to the weight of these cars. The weight is the biggest thing I notice when I drive my 2015 Mustang GT versus my 2009 335i. On the track and road course. You can really tell the car is larger and heavier. Both cars are a blast to drive and have their advantages. It is a great time to be a car guy. There are so many good options out there no matter what your budget is.

Really? So the heavier the car the wider tire needs to be? Thats a new one. So what you're saying is a car like a Mclaren P1 that weighs ~3400lbs doesn't need 315mm rear tires. I guess it only needs 255mm then? Lets forget that it also produces 904 hp and 723 torque......

Or maybe why do ~1550lb F1 cars have 405mm rear tires? It's called GRIP. The more tread you have on the ground, the better you'll corner and the better you'll transfer the power to the ground. Of course, you have to find that perfect setup but saying a vehicle needs a wider tire just because it weighs so much is not the correct answer, in this case.

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by Lobb

Not at all. The interior is poor by the best European standard. No denial. Merely fact

what is 'the best european standard' make and model please

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Lobb

Not at all. The interior is poor by the best European standard. No denial. Merely fact

Are we talking about the F30 or the Camaro? Honestly my Mazda3 daily driver has a better interior than our F30 and the ZL1 that we're talking about doesn't look bad either.
[img]http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sit...1-interior.jpg[/img]

Interesting fact, but GM has been using Lear and Recaro for a few years to bring up their interior quality. I sense you're in Europe and maybe the rubbish interior of some Opel/Vauxhall cars is leading your angst, but many recent GM cars have been top quality.

[86merc]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Really? So the heavier the car the wider tire needs to be? Thats a new one. So what you're saying is a car like a Mclaren P1 that weighs ~3400lbs doesn't need 315mm rear tires. I guess it only needs 255mm then? Lets forget that it also produces 904 hp and 723 torque......

Or maybe why do ~1550lb F1 cars have 405mm rear tires? It's called GRIP. The more tread you have on the ground, the better you'll corner and the better you'll transfer the power to the ground. Of course, you have to find that perfect setup but saying a vehicle needs a wider tire just because it weighs so much is not the correct answer, in this case.

I'm not sure if you are trolling or serious. lmao

The weight of the F1 car is not really why it needs a 405mm rear tire, it's the speeds at which they are trying to make those turn at. I am sure it would do just fine if it had 205 rear tires and took turns at 45mph.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Impressive. But this is with an eagle f1 supercar tyre (summer only), which is a bit like the pirelly trofeo R tyre thats optional on the mclaren P1.
Still very impressive though.
Probably also a blast to drive. 650hp and a 6 speed manual
Sadly silly expensive where I live (CO2 tax will be far over 100k alone...)

What's a c02 tax lol

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

What's a c02 tax lol

must be from a place where the average car barely has enough horsepower to turn the supercharger on the LT4 (to quote POTUS), sad

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by 86merc

I'm not sure if you are trolling or serious. lmao

The weight of the F1 car is not really why it needs a 405mm rear tire, it's the speeds at which they are trying to make those turn at. I am sure it would do just fine if it had 205 rear tires and took turns at 45mph.

Thats what I told to you. Its not the weight of the vehicle but how much power the vehicle has and how effectively you want to get that power to the ground. Weight has nothing to do with it.

You're saying that since the ZL1 weighs so much, that it needs wider tires because of that. No it doesn't. It needs the wider tires to put the power to the ground better and it turns better because of those wider tires.

No one ever looked at a 500hp sports car and said "Hmmm...this car weighs 3000lbs, so I only need 225mm tires."

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by FriskyDingo

If you think anything shy of a heavily optioned 5 Series has a better interior than these new Camaros, you're kidding yourself. That's flat out refusing to look beyond the badge.

I disagree, to a point. I liked my M3 interior better than the ZL1.

However, I do have more standard features in the ZL1, and it's better than I thought it would be. Beats the 5th gen by far, as that thing was an abomination.

I thought I'd have alcantara overload, but it's not bad really.

Originally Posted by FriskyDingo

And GM's new chassis make nearly all modern BMW's feel like Camrys in comparison.

This is spot on, and this is why I bought the car. It rides better than the M3, and outhandles it at the same time. The Alpha chassis is an amazing piece of work.

[Fundguy1]

I got this silly tire argument too when I switched from 255 to 275 to 305 on my e93. I was spinning my tires with my power and needed more grip. I got wider and slightly larger diameter tires which did the trick. I did however have nay sayers saying I was loosing grip due to wider tires. Still can't understand that one. If you want a bigger contact patch for a track, lower tire pressures some. I bet lowering pressures on a 255 enough and you'll have more patch than a firm 305. But you can lower a 305 also and I dont do the track so lower pressures are out. I also got the stickiest compound that I could and still use it in the rain and get acceptable mileage. There were still guys arguing track or more aggressive tires but it's a daily driver and I average 800 miles a week. So think about all the parameters that affect you and again, how can you argue better tractiin with skinnier tires all things equal?

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

I also got th er stinkiest compound that I could

Well, that's certainly a good approach to keep other cars well behind you.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Dethsupp0rt

Well, that's certainly a good approach to keep other cars well behind you.

Lol. Fixed.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

I got this silly tire argument too when I switched from 255 to 275 to 305 on my e93. I was spinning my tires with my power and needed more grip. I got wider and slightly larger diameter tires which did the trick. I did however have nay sayers saying I was loosing grip due to wider tires. Still can't understand that one. If you want a bigger contact patch for a track, lower tire pressures some. I bet lowering pressures on a 255 enough and you'll have more patch than a firm 305. But you can lower a 305 also and I dont do the track so lower pressures are out. I also got the stickiest compound that I could and still use it in the rain and get acceptable mileage. There were still guys arguing track or more aggressive tires but it's a daily driver and I average 800 miles a week. So think about all the parameters that affect you and again, how can you argue better tractiin with skinnier tires all things equal?

Everyone has their own opinions or know others that have done it. Tires do matter and its all about trying different combo's and finding which is the best tire for the job.

Not ever tire of the same size puts down the same contact patch which never made any sense to me but every manufacturer does their own thing. You can lower the tire pressure to optimize grip too. Thats the easiest way to gain grip. Finding that sweet spot for the air pressure but of course not going so low that you're tire will do more harm than good.

I keep my tires around 25 PSI.

[hellrotm]

Kudos to GM for building a world class chassis. The Alpha chassis in just about every iteration has been praised for better handling/feel over their German counterparts.

[The Choosey begger]

Europe's best selling sports car.

[FriskyDingo]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

I got this silly tire argument too when I switched from 255 to 275 to 305 on my e93. I was spinning my tires with my power and needed more grip. I got wider and slightly larger diameter tires which did the trick. I did however have nay sayers saying I was loosing grip due to wider tires. Still can't understand that one. If you want a bigger contact patch for a track, lower tire pressures some. I bet lowering pressures on a 255 enough and you'll have more patch than a firm 305. But you can lower a 305 also and I dont do the track so lower pressures are out. I also got the stickiest compound that I could and still use it in the rain and get acceptable mileage. There were still guys arguing track or more aggressive tires but it's a daily driver and I average 800 miles a week. So think about all the parameters that affect you and again, how can you argue better tractiin with skinnier tires all things equal?

The most effective way of improving straight line traction is by lengthening the contact patch- ie using a larger diameter tire. This is (one of the reasons) why dragsters use such a large diameter tire.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by FriskyDingo

The most effective way of improving straight line traction is by lengthening the contact patch- ie using a larger diameter tire. This is (one of the reasons) why dragsters use such a large diameter tire.

Exactly. Which my 305s are larger diameter too. 26.2" vs 25.1" oem. Wider doesn't hurt either.

[FriskyDingo]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Exactly. Which my 305s are larger diameter too. 26.2" vs 25.1" oem. Wider doesn't hurt either.

Wider doesn't hurt, it's just much more conducive to improving lateral grip.

The larger diameter aspect is tricky, because it can easily ruin looks, where as wider tires pretty much always look better, lol.

[Fundguy1]

Works for me. 305/30-19 on 19x11 et43

[TSM330i]

Other test numbers from Motor Trend:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...t-test-review/

I'm not exactly sure why the M4GTS wasn't this quick and cost twice as much.

[Towerworld]

Originally Posted by Lobb

It goes well. But like all American cars there's a reason that it's cheap. You have to put up with NVH that is far inferior to European equivalents and an interior made out of old dustbin lids

You mean the 70,000$ M3 that comes with kia cloth and rattles more than a 90's civic?


BMW isn't in the same league in terms of luxury as Mercedes or Audi either unless you're talking about the 7 series.

[supra93]