[Sophisticated Redneck]

"You probably already know this, but it takes longer to perform specific tasks in new cars with many menu screens. If you didn't already know this, a Swedish auto magazine proved it with science".

Vi Bilägare tested a dozen vehicles—primarily new but also one 2005 Volvo—to see how long it took to perform a series of four tasks. It took 10 seconds in the old car and up to 45 in one of the new models.

By timing the tasks as the vehicles were in motion, we can see how a simple thing like turning on the radio to a specific station can mean a driver's eyes and focus are on the screen much more than they used to be."

"Future drivers may look back at the current trend of replacing swaths of simple, physical buttons with touchscreens and wonder why we let this happen. The Volkswagen ID.4, for example, uses an almost entirely digital dashboard (pictured below) that makes using the infotainment system a headache. Eliminating or minimizing the number of physical buttons may look clean, but a new report from Sweden shows how touchscreens and endless pages of menus cause, in a sense, distracted driving."



https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...screens-study/

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

Most people look at physical climate controls and take their eyes off the road for adjusting the climate, either with the rotary dials or the buttons. This has been a thing since the introduction of climate controls. If you don't good for you, but most people take their eyes off the road anyway to adjust climate, physical or not.

Please stop acting like this is the end of the world. What is even more crazy is some of you believe this is less safe, despite being closer to the windshield and thus the road peripherally, and simply tapping the touchscreen, which is no different than pressing a button, other than maybe slightly more difficult because no physical feedback (I will concede that point).

Some of you speed on the road, going 10+mph over....if this is about safety, I hope y'all go the speed limit.....because then we need to talk about ALL unsafe road practices...

If you want to criticize this system, atleast do so from a more objective view by actually using the system. Already there have been people here that have received and used idrive 8 models and have by in large missed and would prefer the physical controls, but also have no major issues or qualms with the new touchscreen solution, and say the auto solution seems to work fairly well and limits how much you need to touch it. I take actual user feedback and experience more seriously than the majority in this thread criticizing it who have yet to step foot in a idrive 8 car.

Enough with the stawmans please, we are all much to old to be distracted by such mundane tactics. Save that stuff for a forum filled with 20 somethings.


As me and many others mentioned before, facts are facts and nothing you can say will deviate from the fact: Lack of physical buttons/touchscreens distract divers longer and have a direct impact on accidents. (Pun intended). But just don't take my word for it, some light reading for you: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...screens-study/

[Joachim]

Driving through Old Germany's country actually gives an experience of third world's roads in the 70ies. There are increasingly many of such roads here today!

Because our bodies are designed to transfer the funny hopple from the a** to any part of them, any intended action on the touch screen is not only a challenge with the menus, more than this and before, with aiming the finger of choice on the proper area(s).

Nobody tell me that under these - realistic - conditions driver's distraction isn't worse and longer than when the finger(s) is/are able, during or before the desired action, to cling on a tab / button / winder at a well known position.

[static_void]

I specifically went for a vehicle equipped with iD7 instead of iD8 because I couldn't stand the ungodly look (billboard bolted to a dash, anyone?), the intermittent lag when navigating around, the locking of HVAC and media controls behind software menus, and its inherently less safe design.

I say this as someone who works in the tech space and always wants the most recent iteration of pretty much anything else that's technology-adjacent (PC parts, Apple products, hardware hacking tools, etc).

The only reason iD8 exists is to prepare consumers for the long-term switch to EVs. With time, it will be recognized for its massive shortcomings in ICE/human-operated vehicles.

[ramparts]

Funny thing is I couldn't be further away from a technophobe! The graphics on idrive 8 look lovely (especially the cluster, which is much nicer than the id7 one), and the larger size screens are a definite win.

What i'm not as big a fan of is that they've now seemingly made everything an "app" becuase that's what joe public (ie: not the clientelle of this forum) want. so now you just have a tonne of app icons for things instead of the previous tiered menu approach. I get why, 100%. but i hate it for the same reason i hate the new settings in Mac OS ventura. It's better for novices and worse for experienced people.

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by ramparts

they've now seemingly made everything an "app" [...]I get why, 100%.

Not 100%, I think. Yes, it's giving Joe Public the toy he wants, yes, it's - as @static-void says below - to prepare customers for the EV switch.
But also, and this is a sad trend as well, to make technical equipment features one by one liable to monthly/yearly costs. See steering wheel heating, see seat heating/cooling, maybe entertainment, climate controls, electric seats, settings of driving characteristics.

[SteveinArizona]

The new BMW designs are driving me away from BMW. I currently have a deposit on a Lucid Air which despite being totally new and modern, has physical buttons to control AC temp and radio volume. Imagine that!

[ramparts]

This was actually the point of this thread. The next generation of cockpits is being fought over now. Yes they will be EVs, but that doesn't mean they need to be sole less digital only things.

[Mitchok]

And when screen goes dark then what?

[ramparts]

Star jumps !

[Quadruple VANOS]

I really hope people in front of my M2 allocation hate iD8 and pull out of the queue. 🤞🏻

[LivingInSalt]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

The new BMW designs are driving me away from BMW. I currently have a deposit on a Lucid Air which despite being totally new and modern, has physical buttons to control AC temp and radio volume. Imagine that!

There is a radio volume dial with iD8, plus the volume buttons on the steering wheel

[LivingInSalt]

Originally Posted by Mitchok

And when screen goes dark then what?

What happens when the iD7 screens go dark?

[LivingInSalt]

Originally Posted by static_void

I specifically went for a vehicle equipped with iD7 instead of iD8 because I couldn't stand the ungodly look (billboard bolted to a dash, anyone?), the intermittent lag when navigating around, the locking of HVAC and media controls behind software menus, and its inherently less safe design.

There is no lag when navigating around, and the screens are gorgeous from the driver's seat. I don't see how they're mounted from there.

And there are plenty of media control buttons on the steering wheel.

[DB_Cooper]

I wish all these screens were just part of some tech package so whoever wants them can option it, but I get standardizing this stuff across the model lineup to reduce parts cost. Sucks for those who really dislike touchscreens everywhere.

Not sure how a touchscreen/haptics is better than this:

[jcss812]

Originally Posted by Rocket455

I get the economics side of migrating everything to a screen (as much as I absolutely *hate* it). However, the issue has always been one of usability and convenience for the end user: you shouldn't have to wade through a mess of menus to get to something you may need to adjust frequently enough during a trip; that includes HVAC and media access. One thing that I've seen that comes close to a compromise between the tactile and touchscreen world are touchscreen menus that appear in a fixed location within some part of the main screen. These are always available right there without the need to "bring them up" via a central menu....again, not my preference, but I'd be able to [begrudgingly] live with that.

To expand on your point I haven't seen the new waterfall screens but it looks large enought to configure 'widgets' if your familiar with Android where you have the option to break up the screen into sections and customize what you want on each section like HVAC, Media, etc so you don't have to dig through menus to get to things like this. I personally don't see a problem with this because eventually you get used to it and it could be very customizable like android or keep it structured and locked down like iOS.

With that being said I'm in a 2021 X7 so idrive7? First time back in a BMW since my '99 e38 and I think it's pretty intuitive but there's alot of things that could improve obvs. IMHO I dislike the physical buttons for the HVAC on the X7, everytime you want to sync it you have to touch the physical menu button and than select sync on the screen and it always gets overridden if the passenger side physical buttons are used.

I see some back and forth about the eventual cost saving of moving away from physical buttons and it trickling down to the customer and it'll reduce supply chain issues etc. Don't forget your new cellphone you buy every other year never gets cheaper. Better screens, faster chips, faster memory, etc. As soon as you go all digital it's an arms race every refresh on who has the most bleeding edge tech albiet phones get refreshed every year vs cars getting refreshed far less but there will always be a team working on software. Might as well make the damn screen modular and removable to upgrade and customize via tablet like hardware and function.

[jcss812]

Originally Posted by DB_Cooper

Not sure how a touchscreen/haptics is better than this:



I wish all these screens were just part of some tech package so whoever wants them can option it, but I get standardizing this stuff across the model lineup to reduce parts cost. Sucks for those who really dislike touchscreens everywhere.

That's sexy, makes me miss my e38.

I think you need to go all screen or keep all the hardware and use the screen for just information like the good old sidekick cell phones back in the day. With a mixture of touch screen and physical buttons it feels like I'm watching my 6 y/o getting confused on either using the touchscreen or keyboard on my laptop that offers both lol, heck sometimes even I get confused

[jcss812]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

"You probably already know this, but it takes longer to perform specific tasks in new cars with many menu screens. If you didn't already know this, a Swedish auto magazine proved it with science".

Vi Bilägare tested a dozen vehicles—primarily new but also one 2005 Volvo—to see how long it took to perform a series of four tasks. It took 10 seconds in the old car and up to 45 in one of the new models.

By timing the tasks as the vehicles were in motion, we can see how a simple thing like turning on the radio to a specific station can mean a driver's eyes and focus are on the screen much more than they used to be."

"Future drivers may look back at the current trend of replacing swaths of simple, physical buttons with touchscreens and wonder why we let this happen. The Volkswagen ID.4, for example, uses an almost entirely digital dashboard (pictured below) that makes using the infotainment system a headache. Eliminating or minimizing the number of physical buttons may look clean, but a new report from Sweden shows how touchscreens and endless pages of menus cause, in a sense, distracted driving."



https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...screens-study/

Great point and I agree with most of it but you also have to think if this is the first time for the driver in these vehicles. If yes than obvs it'll take longer but like everything else you get used to it. I can unlock my phone via numeric password without looking at it anymore.

It's too early to tell with id8 if eventually the specific tasks will take less/more time. Personally I use bmw assistant to change control HVAC and Google assistant to control music. Both works like a charm 95% of the time. The other 5% I'm ready rip out the dash.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

Perhaps I wasn't clear. It is a cost saving measure for both BMW and consumers long term. Short term, for BMW, it likely cost them more than physical buttons, due to R&D, but over time of sales, will net them a positive cost saving measure, and therefore, also consumers.

The logical fallacy here is that people are assuming BMW is taking that cost saving and not passing on ANY of the savings to the consumers, leaving them with a lesser solution for the same cost, when that is not true. Maybe in the short term it is not saving anything, because in the short term it also isn't saving BMW much because of the R&D costs, but it also will mean, hopefully, just like all the other cars doing this, a stabilization of car prices, where they won't continue to increase dramatically over the next few years.

Ya no... that's pure BS.

It's all about following he Tesla-toaster design language for profitability.

Sacrificing decades of brand identity via interior design.

[M8Bimmer]

I loved the "Billboard on the dash" comment.
Well I remember cars before screens and I feel they were WAY less distracting than todays auto's.
There is no way all these screens can't be extremely distracting. I don't feel it's a matter of "how used to them you get". You still gotta look. Buttons are also distracting. I will not deny that fact as well. Some cars had so many buttons it was nuts. Especially in the 80's.
But these screens are outta control. They're even on the doors in some cars now. Small ones on the wheel as well. They are everywhere in some cars. I know we aren't gong back but I felt a lot safer in the 70's cars I owned. There was just less to be busy with. More time to actually drive and watch the road. Have we really progressed safety wise? Sure the cars are better built now, but are todays drivers?