[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

* Production codes for the next 1 and 2: F40, F41, G42, G43, F44. I wonder why the coupe and the convertible are G while the rest are F...

Do I detect sarcasm? This is the best evidence yet to suggest that the small two-door models will remain on a RWD platform (CLAR seems the most likely at this point, but we'll see what more becomes known as time goes on).

However, the bad news is that, so far there are just the two G4x models. That means a RWD 2 Series Gran Coupe has yet to be confirmed. It would be a bitter pill for a lot of hopeful folks to swallow if the 2GC does show up, but in FWD/AWD form instead of RWD form. That would furthermore make the likelihood of an M2 GC very low. With the two-door models staying RWD (if they indeed are), M equivalents of those would then surely be developed using a RWD drivetrain consisting of a ~400hp I6. As such, I suspect that BMW would not be spending additional funds to develop any FWD/AWD M models with a ~400hp transverse I4 engine.

Actually, I know that the last couple of months y'all have been waiting for something else. Well, your prayers have finally been answered: I can confirm that M2 CS will differ from the regular M2 in exactly the way you wanted. Though it'll be slightly detuned compared to M3/M4, to 400hp.

That's great! And with that now known, does it not seem just as likely the M4 CS will also get a power increase from the standard M4? I feel like the water-injected S55 is likely in play here.

[SickFinga]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

That's great! And with that now known, does it not seem just as likely the M4 CS will also get a power increase from the standard M4? I feel like the water-injected S55 is likely in play here.

Same increase as the M4 CP

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by SickFinga

Same increase as the M4 CP

It isn't clear whether you meant to say that the M4 CS will have the same power increase over the M4 ZCP as the M4 ZCP does over the standard M4 or if you meant simply that the M4 CS will have the same output as the M4 ZCP.

I suspect you meant the latter, and that would be unfortunate. Even is so, I remain optimistic that the water injected S55 will make its way into future M4 offerings at a price-point that is more affordable than the M4 GTS and M4 DTM championship edition.

[SickFinga]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

It isn't clear whether you meant to say that the M4 CS will have the same power increase over the M4 ZCP as the M4 ZCP does over the standard M4 or if you meant simply that the M4 CS will have the same output as the M4 ZCP.

Same output

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Do I detect sarcasm? This is the best evidence yet to suggest that the small two-door models will remain on a RWD platform

Yeah. I figured that those who've been keeping track of such things would understand the significance right away.

It would be a bitter pill for a lot of hopeful folks to swallow if the 2GC does show up, but in FWD/AWD form instead of RWD form.

I think by now we should've learned that BMW cares about two things: sales volume and halo cars. A small RWD 4 door car doesn't fit. I'm not saying 2GC is guaranteed to be FWD, only that there's no reason for it not to be.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

I think by now we should've learned that BMW cares about two things: sales volume and halo cars. A small RWD 4 door car doesn't fit. I'm not saying 2GC is guaranteed to be FWD, only that there's no reason for it not to be.

Somewhat agree, but on the other hand you have the TT RS going on its second generation now, and it is proof that a critical mass of enthusiasts will accept a "FWD" high performance coupe/convertible too. Sure, the TT RS is a slightly different form factor compared to an M2, but there's no reason that Audi could not take the same platform and build a true four seat coupe/convertible like the M2. Indeed, Mercedes could do the same with their CLA45. Now we could debate whether the move to a two-door, four-seat (four real seats, Audi) coupe would be successful for either of them, but I think it's pretty clear that there exists some formula within all of this potential that could be made to work. As such, it is theoretically possible for BMW to explore and discover that formula.

So, the fact that BMW is keeping these two RWD - at a non-trivial cost premium vs. the would-be UKL equivalent, I think we can agree - suggests that they are at least not completely driven by profit alone. Maybe a 2GC doesn't have to be RWD, and maybe if it doesn't its because the M2 GC which would be based upon it, if it were to exist, wouldn't actually bring in more money even when there are obvious examples on the market in the form of the CLA45 and upcoming RS3 which are presumably profitable products. Maybe, in contrast to those two, BMW has calculated it would simply mean fewer M2 sales, and be a net zero (or net loss, even). Or something else like that - who knows?

Whatever the case, I think those enthusiasts who do want a high performance sedan (or four door coupe - whatever) that is smaller than the next generation M3 are going to start looking at other brands, FWD platform or not. The CLA45 isn't perfect (not even that great by some accounts), but the RS3 will be that much better, and the next generations of those will evolve and get even better still. Plus, in the meantime, who knows what sort of small, high performance, ~400hp and up, four-door performance cars will come along. If BMW really does intend to sit this out, I think that's an unfortunate no-show for this class. And in the long term, maybe another mis-step on their part.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

So, the fact that BMW is keeping these two RWD - at a non-trivial cost premium vs. the would-be UKL equivalent, I think we can agree - suggests that they are at least not completely driven by profit alone. Maybe a 2GC doesn't have to be RWD, and maybe if it doesn't its because the M2 GC which would be based upon it, if it were to exist, wouldn't actually bring in more money even when there are obvious examples on the market in the form of the CLA45 and upcoming RS3 which are presumably profitable products. Maybe, in contrast to those two, BMW has calculated it would simply mean fewer M2 sales, and be a net zero (or net loss, even). Or something else like that - who knows?

My guesses:

Why coupe and convertible are RWD: M GmbH people are pretty hardcore, and they have a lot to say on the engineering of halo cars. The decision on G42/G43 vs F42/F43 could be largely based on their input.

Why GC could be FWD: BMW thinks that a small 4 door M is too niche (plenty of historical precedent), while a conventional small 4 door sedan/gc could bring tons of sales if priced right.

[flyaway]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

My guesses:

Why coupe and convertible are RWD: M GmbH people are pretty hardcore, and they have a lot to say on the engineering of halo cars. The decision on G42/G43 vs F42/F43 could be largely based on their input.

Why GC could be FWD: BMW thinks that a small 4 door M is too niche (plenty of historical precedent), while a conventional small 4 door sedan/gc could bring tons of sales if priced right.

First of all: Thank you very much for your whole input regarding our little M/BMW's, RWD, I6 and manual as we like them all

A few questions (if you would...):

In your opinion, what are the chances the 2019 M2 CS will be available with a manual tranny?

Does it mean that the future generation M2 (G42->) would still be RWD? I guess hoping for a I6 would be illusory, but do miracles still happen?

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by flyaway

In your opinion, what are the chances the 2019 M2 CS will be available with a manual tranny?

Above zero.

Does it mean that the future generation M2 (G42->) would still be RWD? I guess hoping for a I6 would be illusory, but do miracles still happen?

Seems like it, but it's really too early to make predictions.

[Bahn360Photo]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

It's not the same engine exactly. E70 X5M uses the O0 revision, F10 M5 uses T0, and F85/F86 will come with T2, so I would expect about 10hp/10lbs bump. This is in line with F15 using the same engines as E70, benefiting instead from lighter weight and improved drivetrain. And it's been the norm for a very long time now for BMW to use the same engine with minor variations in many different models.

No idea what kind of transmission will be there - the source doesn't specify that.

Throw in 80/20 X drive and 600+ hp and you got a real deal. Putting that much power to the ground is nuts, I'm think 3.5 to 60 and 11 in the quarter

[neo871]

Looks like no M Performance diesel are planned...that's a shame
Anyone noticed or has info on this?

[remmib]

Originally Posted by neo871

Looks like no M Performance diesel are planned...that's a shame
Anyone noticed or has info on this?

I assume there will be a G30/31 M550d for the european market.

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by remmib

I assume there will be a G30/31 M550d for the european market.

Yes, that's the info i got on the prerelease of the G30 at least.

@ynguldyn
What about i models, like the iNext or even better, some info about an iSAV, like the Jaguar ipace.

[dr.roro]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

November 2016 take 2
* US M550i RWD on again off again model is finally no more.
* For 2018 BMW X2, these are the more interesting options that we don't have on X1: 19" RFT or 20" non-RFT with M Sport, adaptive suspension (likely as a part of M Sport), Galvanic Gold paint, Guidance Package.
* 2018 BMW X3: 30i will have the same power as other existing x30i (252hp), while M40i will have 335hp. Sport seats will be standard. Notable options: M Sport brakes, 20" non-RFT or 21" RFT with M Sport, sport suspension with M Sport or adaptive suspension, many comfort options trickling down from 7er and 5er (acoustic glass, ambient air, ambient lighting, display key, ventilated seats, even gesture control - sign of things to come on G20?), Carbon Black paint (remember that beauty? good to see it making a comeback) and the new Phytonic Blue (looks like slightly grayer Mediterranean Blue). Dakota leather will be replaced by a new type.

For these non-RFT options, is BMW planning to include a spare tire? or just the Mobility Kit?

[epiphone3]

Will the G01 X3 get an option for Dynamic Adaptive Suspension like what is available on the X5 (i.e. Air suspension)?

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by dr.roro

For these non-RFT options, is BMW planning to include a spare tire? or just the Mobility Kit?

Seems that X2 will have a mobility kit, while X3 will have a spare.

[AKRAPOVICOWNS]

So, is the 6GC happening in the next generation? How about the 4GC? Seems like the 8GC will happen..but im worried bmw will replace the GCs for GTs..which is unbelievable to me. I mean, who that buys a GC, buys it for the style, and the GT for practicality. Doesnt make sense to kill the GCs because they sell well, and even less to merge both models into one, be ause it will look like shit, like every GT, thus killing the GCs buyers, and leaving a gap for the A7 and CLE.

[neo871]

Originally Posted by remmib

I assume there will be a G30/31 M550d for the european market.

I hope so, but it's strange there is no sign of any future M Performance diesels...

[4BMWGarage]

Originally Posted by remmib

I assume there will be a G30/31 M550d for the european market.

M550d comes.
This photo is from the russian BMW system (founded in the GCF)
Also mentioned the 520i

[neo871]

Originally Posted by Marius16

M550d comes.
This photo is from the russian BMW system (founded in the GCF)
Also mentioned the 520i

Nice! Hope that for the new X3 there will also be a more powerful diesel coming up, other than the 30d.

[4BMWGarage]

Originally Posted by neo871

Looks like no M Performance diesel are planned...that's a shame
Anyone noticed or has info on this?

On bimmertoday is a interview with the G30 leaders:
There is the question if there is a M550d.
They replied:
"Since you can certainly assume that this variant will be next year."

The complete interview in german:
http://www.bimmertoday.de/2016/12/05...antwortlichen/

[Ratutory]

@ynguldyn............. Any word on when the upcoming Z5 will be revealed? What are we expecting for engines, will there be a coupe version after the roadster?