[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Minimum wage is what, $15/hr now? Meth should be priced accordingly. My 2-cents.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gblansten

EVs vs ICE in natural disasters: it depends on the type of disaster. That's the adult answer.

This article looks at recent hurricane experience with the two types of tech:

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/e...rs-240835.html

My counter to this is, what drivetrain architecture is used for the heavy equipment and aircraft used to rescue people, open roads, clear bridges, and rebuild infrastructure? Right diesel, Av gas, and jet fuel. All three fuels are byproducts of crude oil distillation, which also produces gasoline and the other chemicals that are needed to recover from impacts of a natural disaster.

Were there no need for gasoline, electric heavy equipment and aircraft would not support rescue and rebuild efforts desperately needed after a major hurricane event. When the electric grid is down those hypothetical electric machines would have no place to recharge. Heavy equipment has its fuel brought in to refuel on site. An electric excavator, miles up in the mountain rebuilding roads, how would that machine be refueled?

EVs are great for their use case, but they rely on the petrochemical industry as much as ICEV do. That article... written by Mr. Mike Smoke and Ms. Michelle Mirrors.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Save a smelt, live in a cave!

Like Fred Flintstone, 'they' want us to do that

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Last place I went skiing was Avoriaz, a lot is involved and much easier to go to a warm sunny seaside place , put flippers on swim around easy getting great body tone then take things as they come without the regimented daily action of skiing.

I can't agree more. Deep inside my genes, I always craving for speed and excitement; the speed from skiing, the speed from driving on track....

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

'EV's cannot be relied on as a safe form of transport if you need to evacuate in the event of an emergency'.

They have a feature called fire in the hole

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

EV vs ICE doesnt matter in a natural disaster. What matters is you filled it up prior.

If you try to evacuate with a 1/4 tank of gas, youre fucked. If you try to evacuate with a 25% charge, youre fucked.

If you try to evacuate with 25% charge, you get fucked way way faster. That is a huge different

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

They have a feature called fire in the hole

As if they haven't got enough to worry about

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

My counter to this is, what drivetrain architecture is used for the heavy equipment and aircraft used to rescue people, open roads, clear bridges, and rebuild infrastructure? Right diesel, Av gas, and jet fuel. All three fuels are byproducts of crude oil distillation, which also produces gasoline and the other chemicals that are needed to recover from impacts of a natural disaster.

Were there no need for gasoline, electic heavy equipment and aircraft would not
support rescue and rebuild efforts desperately needed after a major hurricane event. When the electric grid is down those hypothetical electic machines would have no place to recharge. Heavy equipment has its fuel brought in to refuel on site. An electic excavator miles up in the mountain rebuilding roads, how would that machine be refueled?

EVs are great for their use case, but they rely on the petrochemical industry as much as ICEV do. That article... written by Mr. Mike Smoke and Ms. Michelle Mirrors.

Gas stations rely on electricity to pump gasoline. If the gas station has electricity, then EV's can refuel just the same.

I also don't think anyone is arguing that heavy machinery is ready to switch to full EV, although there are companies working on developing more electric heavy machinery. However, when it comes to remote refueling, electricity definitely has the most wide-spread distribution of any fuel source across the entire world.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dfox

Gas stations rely on electricity to pump gasoline. If the gas station has electricity, then EV's can refuel just the same.

I also don't think anyone is arguing that heavy machinery is ready to switch to full EV, although there are companies working on developing more electric heavy machinery. However, when it comes to remote refueling, electricity definitely has the most wide-spread distribution of any fuel source across the entire world.

A critical power system can power a gas station to run the electric gas pumps. No one is going to charge a 300kWh excavator battery on a 120VAC L1 circuit.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

If you try to evacuate with 25% charge, you get fucked way way faster. That is a huge different

Say you have the latest regular 'ole Model 3 and you adhere to the 10% min. battery SOC rule, you'd get to drive on just 15% of battery (25% - 10%). That nets you about 55 miles. For my old E90, 1/4-tank is easy 100 miles, say 80 in a traffic jam (worst case).

For a fire, 55 miles would probably be okay. 55 miles for a hurricane, maybe not so much...

[Tejas1836]

I keep 10 gallons fuel storage in jerry cans at home, 20 gallons at the farm
Problem solved

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Say you have the latest regular 'ole Model 3 and you adhere to the 10% min. battery SOC rule, you'd get to drive on just 15% of battery (25% - 10%). That nets you about 55 miles. For my old E90, 1/4-tank is easy 100 miles, say 80 in a traffic jam (worst case).

For a fire, 55 miles would probably be okay. 55 miles for a hurricane, maybe no so much...

Yes, because in the case of an EMERGENCY I'm sure everyone is following these imaginary rules. Honestly, if someone dies in a hurricane because they decided to stop driving at 10% SOC in an emergency because of some made up internet "rule" then we may all be better off.

I keep my Model 3 charged to 80% all of the time. Unless a hurricane showed up out of nowhere and hit us within say 8 hours of me coming home from a long ass trip... if THAT happens and I ONLY had my Tesla then I guess I would be stuck at home until power is restored. Then again if I came home after a long ass trip with an almost empty tank of gas the same thing would happen.

Now in the real world I would charge to 100% BEFORE the hurricane and if it was a bad one I would have been gone long before that bitch was anywhere near us.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

I keep 10 gallons fuel storage in jerry cans at home, 20 gallons at the farm
Problem solved

What about the people who live in apartments???? Literally the only people the anti EV crowd seems to care about. Should they start storing fuel jugs in their bath tubs just incase?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Yes, because in the case of an EMERGENCY I'm sure everyone is following these imaginary rules. Honestly, if someone dies in a hurricane because they decided to stop driving at 10% SOC in an emergency because of some made up internet "rule" then we may all be better off.

I keep my Model 3 charged to 80% all of the time. Unless a hurricane showed up out of nowhere and hit us within say 8 hours of me coming home from a long ass trip... if THAT happens and I ONLY had my Tesla then I guess I would be stuck at home until power is restored. Then again if I came home after a long ass trip with an almost empty tank of gas the same thing would happen.

Now in the real world I would charge to 100% BEFORE the hurricane and if it was a bad one I would have been gone long before that bitch was anywhere near us.

Okay, 72 miles leaving 5% in the battery. 5% is reserve (24 miles remaining) for an E90.

But the discussion wasn't charging to 100%, it was leaving in an emergency with a 25% SOC.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Okay, 72 miles leaving 5% in the battery. 5% is reserve (24 miles remaining) for an E90.

But the discussion wasn't charging to 100%, it was leaving in an emergency with a 25% SOC.

Have you seen the tests where they run EVs until they stop? Most of them go a long way after 0 before they die completely.

However the more important question is why are you at 25% before an emergency? I mean if you are concerned about this kind of stuff why don't you keep it charged to at least 80% all the time? I'm not worried about these things and I keep mine at 80% all the time.

BTW 72 miles in a hurricane is the difference between losing power and having your shit blown away and barely feeling anything.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Have you seen the tests where they run EVs until they stop? Most of them go a long way after 0 before they die completely.

However the more important question is why are you at 25% before an emergency? I mean if you are concerned about this kind of stuff why don't you keep it charged to at least 80% all the time? I'm not worried about these things and I keep mine at 80% all the time.

BTW 72 miles in a hurricane is the difference between losing power and having your shit blown away and barely feeling anything.

I always keep mine at 80%. It’s at 80% right now. Even after a long weekend day on call I will usually only be at 45%. During the week maybe 68% when I get home then recharge again.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

A critical power system can power a gas station to run the electric gas pumps.

What magical "critical power system" are we talking about here?
The last time we had a power outage (due to snow storm and fallen trees), the gas stations were the first to go dark and the last ones to get restored. Residential customers are prioritized for power restoration above commerical ones.
One resrourceful gas station had backup power generators (running on gas) powering the pumps to dispense the fuel, but there was just one so prepared in a 10-mile radius. With lines stretching for about 3/4 mile, and gas dispensation limite to 5 gallons per customer.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Say you have the latest regular 'ole Model 3 and you adhere to the 10% min. battery SOC rule,

There is NO SUCH RULE.
Whatsoever.

This is akin to proclaiming that in a natural emergency incest rules are no longer binding in Virginia, so it not your fault ...

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

you'd get to drive on just 15% of battery (25% - 10%). That nets you about 55 miles. For my old E90, 1/4-tank is easy 100 miles, say 80 in a traffic jam (worst case).

My TM3's listed range is 353 miles.
My ///M3's listed range is ... not listed. 15.6 gallon fuel tank $23.3 MPG (my historical average) = 363 miles. Way less in stop'n'go.

6 of one, half dozen the other.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

For a fire, 55 miles would probably be okay. 55 miles for a hurricane, maybe not so much...

Folks evacuating FL during a hurricane always make the news running out of gas, as do the gas stations. Transporting gas to the stations is a lengthy process that is never quiete prepared for a mass evac.

Refilling EV chargers with electricity - automatic.

No electricity - no fuel pumps for ICE cars, no power to EVs - equally screwed.

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I keep my Model 3 charged to 80% all of the time. [...]Now in the real world I would charge to 100% BEFORE the hurricane and if it was a bad one I would have been gone long before that bitch was anywhere near us.

Bingo!
Same here:

• NCA EV is charged to 80% normally, 100% for longer road trips.
• LFP EV is charged to 100% all the time.
• Both are recharged before they drop to below 30%, or whenever I feel like, or on a weekend.

a

[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

What about the people who live in apartments???? Literally the only people the anti EV crowd seems to care about. Should they start storing fuel jugs in their bath tubs just incase?

Well, not in jugs, use jerry cans, very safe and I'm not sure why the bathtub

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by afadeev

What magical "critical power system" are we talking about here?
The last time we had a power outage (due to snow storm and fallen trees), the gas stations were the first to go dark and the last ones to get restored. Residential customers are prioritized for power restoration above commerical ones.
One resrourceful gas station had backup power generators (running on gas) powering the pumps to dispense the fuel, but there was just one so prepared in a 10-mile radius. With lines stretching for about 3/4 mile, and gas dispensation limite to 5 gallons per customer.



There is NO SUCH RULE.
Whatsoever.

This is akin to proclaiming that in a natural emergency incest rules are no longer binding in Virginia, so it not your fault ...



My TM3's listed range is 353 miles.
My ///M3's listed range is ... not listed. 15.6 gallon fuel tank $23.3 MPG (my historical average) = 363 miles. Way less in stop'n'go.

6 of one, half dozen the other.



Folks evacuating FL during a hurricane always make the news running out of gas, as do the gas stations. Transporting gas to the stations is a lengthy process that is never quiete prepared for a mass evac.

Refilling EV chargers with electricity - automatic.

No electricity - no fuel pumps for ICE cars, no power to EVs - equally screwed.



Bingo!
Same here:

• NCA EV is charged to 80% normally, 100% for longer road trips.
• LFP EV is charged to 100% all the time.
• Both are recharged before they drop to below 30%, or whenever I feel like, or on a weekend.

a

:facepalm:

[M5Rick]

Some escaping a disaster with low charge in EV and no working electric to charge would not only be in trouble but a danger to others escaping as dead EV's blocking roads and highways would be a hazard to others trying to evacuate.
--Headed for the bomb shelter.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Have you seen the tests where they run EVs until they stop? Most of them go a long way after 0 before they die completely.

However the more important question is why are you at 25% before an emergency? I mean if you are concerned about this kind of stuff why don't you keep it charged to at least 80% all the time? I'm not worried about these things and I keep mine at 80% all the time.

BTW 72 miles in a hurricane is the difference between losing power and having your shit blown away and barely feeling anything.

Do I need to repeat it again?

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

:facepalm:

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Some escaping a disaster with low charge in EV and no working electric to charge would not only be in trouble but a danger to others escaping as dead EV's blocking roads and highways would be a hazard to others trying to evacuate..