[zipstic]

Originally Posted by ///S65

Do you know if the Cayenne uses VW's AWD system? Or is it Porsche's own system?

No, the Cayenne does not use VW's AWD system. They have their own system that splits 38/62 F to R under normal conditions and then can move more/less power to each wheel.

[///S65]

Originally Posted by zipstic

No, the Cayenne does not use VW's AWD system. They have their own system that splits 38/62 F to R under normal conditions and then can move more/less power to each wheel.

Thats good to know! It looks like the Q7, Tourage and Cayenne all use different AWD systems as well as electronics and even different sizes. I wonder what do they share in common since they are using the same platform?

[DaZuc]

Nice the video works now.
Interesting stuff. Gotta love the xdrive.

[xlover]

Having owned an S4 (torsion center diff not the new crown) prior to my 335 xdrive. I can say with certainty the S4 Quattro was superior.. ONLY because of the electronic limited slip REAR diff, which is an optional extra as noted in earlier posts. The diff was great in dry conditions because it would help with understeer by rotating the car and the diff was great on deeper snow and ice because in the rear it would keep power moving to the wheel with the most grip or move both in high slip conditions unlike than xdrive which can get hung up if all 4 wheels have limited traction and you need to keep the tires spinning to gain momentum...

I think the center diff is a matter of taste you dont really need a mechanical diff there unless you are off road putting alot of torque down that needs to be transferred most street driving in inclement weather drivers are trying to limit the torque going to down to the road as just enough to get the car moving

I think xdrive with a rear LSD or eLSD would be an amazing improvement if they spread it throughout the line but considering BMW doesn't even put limited slips on the RWD non-M cars i don't see this happening. I believe only the MX5 and MX6 have eLSDs with xdrive.

then there is the whole other issue of most of the xdrive cars being saddled with the higher ride height suspensions (only exception is the M235 xdrive)

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by xlover

Having owned an S4 (torsion center diff not the new crown) prior to my 335 xdrive. I can say with certainty the S4 Quattro was superior.. ONLY because of the electronic limited slip REAR diff, which is an optional extra as noted in earlier posts. The diff was great in dry conditions because it would help with understeer by rotating the car and the diff was great on deeper snow and ice because in the rear it would keep power moving to the wheel with the most grip or move both in high slip conditions unlike than xdrive which can get hung up if all 4 wheels have limited traction and you need to keep the tires spinning to gain momentum...

I think the center diff is a matter of taste you dont really need a mechanical diff there unless you are off road putting alot of torque down that needs to be transferred most street driving in inclement weather drivers are trying to limit the torque going to down to the road as just enough to get the car moving

I think xdrive with a rear LSD or eLSD would be an amazing improvement if they spread it throughout the line but considering BMW doesn't even put limited slips on the RWD non-M cars i don't see this happening. I believe only the MX5 and MX6 have eLSDs with xdrive.

then there is the whole other issue of most of the xdrive cars being saddled with the higher ride height suspensions (only exception is the M235 xdrive)

So when people say, "Just get AWD!" my inclination is to go with the Audi S4 with that rear diff. But I'm wondering why you went to the 335i xDrive?

[4er_Meister]

Originally Posted by jmcphillips1

How advanced does it seem here?

Lmfaoo

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by DCG

The M Sport with X-Drive is not offered with any Sport Suspension setup, but it still kicks ass. We do miss the Sport Suspension but for now and with the Misses driving it as well it is a very small compromise we made and well worth it. It even has better fuel economy then the two previous 3 Series with Sport Package we had.

I am highly anticipating an M4 with rear bias AWD!

I have an M-Sport with xDrive and the Dynamic Handling Package. DHP (with Adaptive M Suspension) is an upgrade over even the "Sport" suspension, so they definitely do offer a better suspension with xDrive.

[rosica]

There will never be a clear answer to this argument we all know driver skill and tires are what really matters in winter conditions. On snow tires I never had a problem in my b5 a4 or 335xi.

[DCG]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

I have an M-Sport with xDrive and the Dynamic Handling Package. DHP (with Adaptive M Suspension) is an upgrade over even the "Sport" suspension, so they definitely do offer a better suspension with xDrive.

When we ordered it we were told directly from BMW NA that ordering the xDrive M Sport their was no way to get any kind of sport suspension. But the suspension we have is not bad at all.

We are in the States, where are you located? And what year and model do you have?

The one thing with the North American M Sport that realy ticks me off is that it is not available with Fog Lights witch comes in real handy living by the coast. The Euro version as pictured in the BMW 3 Series brochure has them. It blows my mind why they are not the same with regards to Fog Lights. I was told it was deleted do to looks. Well I prefer the look with them and most importantly seeing where the hell I am going!

[gtaccord]

Older xdrive (before dhp and active handling) did not have any sport suspension option.

[E90-F30]

I have both an F10 with X-Drive and an S4 that has Quattro in my garage.

Both are great, but I will say that the S4 is a snowplow when there is more than 6inches of snow on the ground.

To each their own, but people shouldn't doubt either system since they are both incredible.

[aci72]

Just google Quattro vs. XDrive (answer to BMW video) and you will find videos on u tube showing the other way of the story.
I believe this is all marketing and it's not easy to say which one is better...probably they are comparable.
My 2 cents..

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by DCG

When we ordered it we were told directly from BMW NA that ordering the xDrive M Sport their was no way to get any kind of sport suspension. But the suspension we have is not bad at all.

We are in the States, where are you located? And what year and model do you have?

The one thing with the North American M Sport that realy ticks me off is that it is not available with Fog Lights witch comes in real handy living by the coast. The Euro version as pictured in the BMW 3 Series brochure has them. It blows my mind why they are not the same with regards to Fog Lights. I was told it was deleted do to looks. Well I prefer the look with them and most importantly seeing where the hell I am going!

I'm probably right near you. I'm in Queens, NYC. 2015 335GT. I also have fog lights.

[Falafel Combo]

I think one factor which has been overlooked in our discussions thus far, is the amazing DSC traction control system on the BMW's. That is really the mastermind ... the wizard behind the curtains. Because in its absence (DSC, DTC off), xDrive does not appear to be as competent as one may be lead to believe. I do not have a good scientific explanation for that, but all I can say is that on my xDrive car, once the DSC has been de-activated, all bets are off. It immediately fishtails, revs climb and any sense of confidence is quickly squandered. It feels like a 4WD rear wheel drive car, if that makes sense.


I shot a couple of videos to try and illustrate that. My cars is a 335i xDrive, with base suspension. All season tires, with 28,000 miles on them. Not exactly the perfect winter setup.



Video 1: Comfort mode, DSC turned off (no traction control, no stability control).

You will see in this video that I am attempting to climb a decent sized, fresh snow covered hill. Traction control is completely off.

As soon as I get on the gas, the car starts to loose traction, tire slippage is almost instantaneous, and revs climb pretty fast, making things even worse. It goes up the hill, but not without judicious throttle modulation and steering inputs.






Video 2: Sport mode, DSC turned on (traction and stability controls both on).

Here you can see the DSC system working really hard, with the engine rpm's dance around "hunting" for traction and the constant DSC relay system making sure power is rationed out appropriate to wheel traction.

Once it gets going, it's almost as if there is no snow on the ground. It's incredibly clever, I must say. Very little-to-no-throttle modulation required here. Just a steady 50% throttle application gets you up the hill pretty quickly and with no drama.






Video 3: Bonus: Snow drifting in Sport+ (limited traction control).

It still amazes me how effortlessly the xDrive system will allow the car to behave as a RWD car, in the absence of DSC. With a quick blip of the throttle, the tail snaps out, opposite of steering input. An effortless 180, with minimal interference from the front wheels.

SO in conclusion, I would really call the xDrive system an all wheel drive "capable", but not a true all wheel drive system. In the absence of any electronic nannies, I believe it maintains a heavy RWD bias.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Give it time and we may see AWD passenger car sales pass RWD passenger car sales. Actually, I say that without knowing the current numbers and how things break down. I imagine BMW still sells more RWD passenger cars than they do AWD ones, but I'll bet it is closer than one might think. Ignoring two seaters, which are generally not targeting all-climate, year-round driving, there are few RWD cars now that do not have an AWD option. Looking at RWD sedans in particular, optional AWD is quickly becoming the price of entry if you want to be competitive. In another decade and RWD-only sedans could be extinct, and RWD-only four or five seat coupes could be limited to muscle cars and a couple outliers.

I think it will stay regional....If I lived in SoCal or FL I'd go RWD for the driving experience, less weight and less cost.

Living in the Snowbelt? I've come to rely on and like the AWD.

Wouldn't surprise me if Xdrive outsells RWD in Midwest USA right now.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Over 70% of BMWs sold worldwide are xDrive. It wouldn't surprise me if they outsold all the Quattros.

That's shocking to me...

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by Midwest M235i

That's shocking to me...

Not me. Mercedes is close to that also. With all the SUVs sold, and the amount of people who buy in snowy areas, I actually expected higher. The dealers up here rarely even stock rear drivers. Maybe 1 or 2 of each model and the rest are AWD.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Not me. Mercedes is close to that also. With all the SUVs sold, and the amount of people who buy in snowy areas, I actually expected higher. The dealers up here rarely even stock rear drivers. Maybe 1 or 2 of each model and the rest are AWD.

Ok, thanks..That makes a lot of sense to me now. Throw in the cross-overs and SAV's and I can see the #'s tipping that way.

I was thinking just car platforms and worldwide...Wonder what the % of cars are xdrive worldwide? I suspect that is closer to 25-33%?

In the snowbelt here is the States and Canada obviously much higher..

[Mike_L]

I don't have those numbers. I just got the other number in an article someplace.

[funkahdafi]

Here in Germany BMW already sells more xDrives.

[DCG]

Originally Posted by xlover

then there is the whole other issue of most of the xDrive cars being saddled with the higher ride height suspensions (only exception is the M235 xdrive)

Yes agreed, if you want lets say Sport package or M Sport with xDrive for a more sporty ride, sport suspension should come standard. That is something that needs to be remedied.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Midwest M235i

I was thinking just car platforms and worldwide...Wonder what the % of cars are xdrive worldwide? I suspect that is closer to 25-33%?

I'd guess 33% at least. Perhaps even as high as 40%.

I'll bet it is steadily increasing though. Just looking at the proliferation of xDrive to different models, one could reasonably make that conclusion. Even the convertibles are available with xDrive now - makes sense since Audi had previously had a lock on that.