[OC Guy]

Originally Posted by yeung330xi

yes Dennis Rodman was a good defensive player + rebounder but his offensive ability is almost worst than ben wallace

secondly, i never said that Odom was as good or could be as good or is better than Pippen BUT he is capable and has comparable abilities (minus the defense end)

AND Pippen never won an MVP either so I don't know where you get off knocking Lamar for not winning one. and the All Star MVP doesn't count...

i meant never won an all-star but i was having a conversation with someone about kobe for mvp.

dennis rodman could play offense if he wanted, he didnt care to. u dont know bball if you thought otherwise. mj, pippen, all of them attested to this.

Pippen was much more capable on offense and defense than LO.

[Hunter399]

Originally Posted by txusa03

kinda late getting on the rocket bandwagon, ran out of gas

im nto a bandwagoner

[nyczyang27]

YEAHHH i knew rockets would have a good shot at it with rafer back in the line up. That last back to back 3's from Utah a minute and half to go in the 4th quarter was scary as hell though...

[Bimmer335i]

Let's go Lakers! Put that foot the Enver Nuggets throat and press hard!

[OC Guy]

Did you know the Suns are the winningest Franchise in the NBA without a title?

They are the best LOSERS ever.

Did you know Steve Nash and KG are the only MVPs who never have made it to the NBA Finals? KG looks like he'll make it this year. Nash? I think his window of opportunity has closed.

[E92 maniac]

MAVSSS!!!!!!!!! im feeling sorry for the suns.

[Island Snow]

here's a rare Jordan dunk video...

[robbensays]

Originally Posted by OC 335i

Did you know the Suns are the winningest Franchise in the NBA without a title?

They are the best LOSERS ever.

Did you know Steve Nash and KG are the only MVPs who never have made it to the NBA Finals? KG looks like he'll make it this year. Nash? I think his window of opportunity has closed.

[E(@M#]

LAKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[02themax]

Gotta luv the Lakers!

[krnshinsa]

lol what a embarrassing game.

Iverson was like 7 out of 15?

anyone else laugh when denver had the ball the last couple of seconds before the end and they just stood there? lol the crowd seemed so quiet

[nyczyang27]

Originally Posted by krnshinsa

lol what a embarrassing game.

Iverson was like 7 out of 15?

anyone else laugh when denver had the ball the last couple of seconds before the end and they just stood there? lol the crowd seemed so quiet

Iverson went 5-16.. Melo went 5-22 lol..

Embarassing game indeed...

I can't wait to see Spurs vs Lakers at the western conference finals Gonna be a good matchup imo.

[TheAcAvenger]

Originally Posted by OC 335i

Did you know the Suns are the winningest Franchise in the NBA without a title?

They are the best LOSERS ever.

Did you know Steve Nash and KG are the only MVPs who never have made it to the NBA Finals? KG looks like he'll make it this year. Nash? I think his window of opportunity has closed.

Perhaps because one of them should have never been mvp in the first place... *cough**cough*. I hate to listen to the whole "nash only won because he was white" thing, but I recall someone in an interview who said "If steve nash had been black, amare stoudemire would've won nash's first mvp title." Which IMO is completely true. Let's not forget marion's constant 20 and 10s. Dirk should've won the 2nd time Nash won it. I'm just not down for one way players ever being MVP.

There's no way you play with Dirk, Finley, Van Exel, Amare, and Marion in your career and never get to the finals if you're a real MVP.

[SpecC]

Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger

Perhaps because one of them should have never been mvp in the first place... *cough**cough*. I hate to listen to the whole "nash only won because he was white" thing, but I recall someone in an interview who said "If steve nash had been black, amare stoudemire would've won nash's first mvp title." Which IMO is completely true. Let's not forget marion's constant 20 and 10s. Dirk should've won the 2nd time Nash won it. I'm just not down for one way players ever being MVP.

There's no way you play with Dirk, Finley, Van Exel, Amare, and Marion in your career and never get to the finals if you're a real MVP.

that would kind of be like calling out people like karl malone and john stockton for never winning championships in the micheal jordan era

[TheAcAvenger]

Originally Posted by SpecC

that would kind of be like calling out people like karl malone and john stockton for never winning championships in the micheal jordan era

John Stockton, the greatest pure point guard in nba history, never won an MVP. Karl Malone, the top 2 or 3 PF of all time won twice, and they both got to the finals twice. None of those clauses apply to steve nash. And this certainly is not the jordan era. I don't see any 72 win teams winning the championship year after year after year. The only team that even compares to the Bulls dominance is the Spurs, but its still hardly a comparison.

You think of all the mvp's in league history and nearly all of them have been to the finals. The only two in recent memory that havent are dirk, nash, and KG. In KG's defense, he is the hardest working player in the league, and he just won defensive player of the year.

Let's take a look at the past 20 years of MVPs.
Dirk- No finals

Nash- TWO time winner, no finals

KG- One time winner, no finals, former defensive player of the year, won mvp when he had 1/10th the talent on his team as Nash did.

Tim Duncan- Two time winner. Arguably the greatest PF in nba history. Four time NBA champion. Only player in NBA history that's 9 time all-nba team and 9 time all-defensive team in first 9 season.

AI- One time winner, the hardest playing little man ever to play in the league. Took the lowly 76ers to the finals and won one of the greatest game 1 upsets I've ever seen.

Karl Malone - 2 time winner, 3 time all nba defensive team. 2 Finals appearances.

Shaq- 1 time winner, 4 time nba champion.

David "The Admiral" Robinson- 1 time winner, 2 time nba champion, 1992 defensive player of the year, 4 time defensive 1st team, 4 time defensive 2nd team.

MJ- 5 time winner. Often referred to as the GOAT. 6 NBA championships, 9 time first team all defense.

Magic Johnson- 3 time winner, 5 time NBA champion

Beyond 1987 you have Larry Bird, Moses Malone, Erving, Kareem, Moses Malone, Bill Walton, McAdoo, Willis Reed, Unseld, Petit, Oscar, and Cousy.

Out of all those MVPs, there are 3 that stand out as undeserving. I say 3 because Dirk and Nash I think are completely undeserving, KG and the Admiral only halfway undeserving.


So, lets step it up another level, because it would be a completely different argument if Nash had won once... but Nash won TWICE.

People who have won twice:
Kareem, Jordan, Russel, Chamberlain, Bird, Magic, Moses, Timmy D, Mailman, Pettit.... and Steve Nash!???

For the sake of argument, we'll scratch pettit off the list because he was born in 1932, making him ridiculously irrelevant to anything in 2008.

So looking at championships... not finals appearances, but full fledged NBA championships we have Kareem (6), Jordan (6), Russel (11), Chamberlain (2), Bird (3), Moses Malone (1), Timmy D (4), Mailman (0*)

Karl Malone indeed gets an asterisk because he got to the nba finals TWICE and lost to the greatest player of all time and the greatest team of all time (as far as winning percentages is concerned).

Thus, steve nash is the only two time mvp in the last 50 years to have never been to the nba finals. Steve Nash is one of two two time mvp's in the last 50 years to have never won the nba finals. Steve Nash is only player on the multi-mvp list to have played with another mvp winner and not won at 2 championships.


Now let's look at 1st/2nd all-defensive teams as well. Kareem (11), Jordan (9), Russel (1), first year of award), Bird (3), Moses Malone (2), Karl Malone (2), Tim Duncan (9). Chamberlain (NA)

So Steve Nash is the ONLY two time mvp in nba history to have played in the league since the inception of the all-nba defensive team and to have never been a member of it.

Given the above mentioned facts, I conclude that steve nash may have been worthy of one nba mvp. But to win two is an insult to players like Hakeem, Shaq, Walton, and Barkley who only won 1 and to players like Patrick Ewing and Kobe Bryant who have never been mvp winners.

[Bimmer335i]

Very good arguement, just because you presented your backup facts, unlike some others. I'm not an NBA buff, but I'm just impressed with your research.

BTW, I always thought Nash was overrated. He's a great player, but 2 MVPs and never even tasted, smelled, or felt the NBA finals???...hmm...I don't know. As an NBA fan, I'm disappointed for the other runner-ups.

[ExclusiveDetail]

I want to see Spurs and Lakers in western conference finals as well. Going to be a good match up but I think spurs will take it. They are way more experienced playing together.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by john1c

I want to see Spurs and Lakers in western conference finals as well. Going to be a good match up but I think spurs will take it. They are way more experienced playing together.

Plus the Lakers will be playing a team that plays you know.....defense.

[ExclusiveDetail]

yeah. laker fans are going crazy because they are about to sweep a team that is inconsistent and can't play defense. but we shall see what happens. these playoffs are crazy!

[///sniper]

[Bimmer335i]

From that picture above, it looks as if Kidd was trying to catch Pargo while in fact Kidd was actually pulling Pargo's neck down and hard...I know Kidd is not a dirty player but damn, that was uncalled for. Kidd should be suspended for at least one game...Pargo could've landed awkwardly and break his neck, spinal cord or a number of things.

[3onDubs]

The expressions on the other two Hornets' faces are priceless