[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Well, since I don't call myself an audiophile, I'll say something negative about them. I looked up the specs on this speaker and it won't work for 99.99% of the target market being discussed here. It's a near-field speaker. So unless you watch movies or listen to music in a recording studio with the speaker right next to you, buying this speaker will be a total waste of your money. And I haven't even gone into the sound quality of it.

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/profess...rs/scm45a-pro/

ATC speakers are used for both regular listening and studio work.

What exactly is it about the sound quality that you havent gone into? Im very curious.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by AW335TT

ATC speakers are used for both regular listening and studio work.

What exactly is it about the sound quality that you havent gone into? Im very curious.

Nothing. To me, I wouldn't even listen to it for sound quality as it's not designed for the listening room I would use it in. That's why I said I haven't gone into the sound quality. Looking through ATC's offerings, they do offer non-near-field/control room speakers. My comments are reserved for the one you picked out.

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Nothing. To me, I wouldn't even listen to it for sound quality as it's not designed for the listening room I would use it in. That's why I said I haven't gone into the sound quality. Looking through ATC's offerings, they do offer non-near-field/control room speakers. My comments are reserved for the one you picked out.

I have heard those speakers before and I can tell you they are probably the best sounding speaker Ive heard. The detail and transparency is amazing, you hear every little thing in the music. I played tracks that I know very well, Ive also played those tracks on B&W 802 Diamonds running of Mcintosh amps, also on Rotel amps another time, Sonus Faber running on Mcintosh, Revel ultimas, Focals etc and I heard subtle details on the ATCs that I hadnt heard before. They also have incredible bass response, they put out a lott of bass but its veryy tight and detailed.

Yes, ATC doesnt have a regular one of this particular model, but they have smaller near fields that also have a regular model and they have larger far fields which have a regular model. The only difference is the way they design the exterior, they try to make them a litte more attractive.. but all the components and drivers are the same.

Deadmau5 has 7 of these hooked up to dolby atmos.

You can use them as a 2 way set up in your living room or surround sound and they will blow almost everything away, but running these as surround sound would cost wayy to much.

This guy is running Genelecs in his living room.

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Nothing. To me, I wouldn't even listen to it for sound quality as it's not designed for the listening room I would use it in. That's why I said I haven't gone into the sound quality. Looking through ATC's offerings, they do offer non-near-field/control room speakers. My comments are reserved for the one you picked out.

What kind of room would you put these in that you think they wont work, and what speaker do you think will work and why? besides the fact that these are labeled as studio monitors.

Sorry OP for kind of derailing the thread.

[wrickem]

Originally Posted by AW335TT

I have heard those speakers before and I can tell you they are probably the best sounding speaker Ive heard. The detail and transparency is amazing, you hear every little thing in the music. I played tracks that I know very well, Ive also played those tracks on B&W 802 Diamonds running of Mcintosh amps, also on Rotel amps another time, Sonus Faber running on Mcintosh, Revel ultimas, Focals etc and I heard subtle details on the ATCs that I hadnt heard before. They also have incredible bass response, they put out a lott of bass but its veryy tight and detailed.

Yes, ATC doesnt have a regular one of this particular model, but they have smaller near fields that also have a regular model and they have larger far fields which have a regular model. The only difference is the way they design the exterior, they try to make them a litte more attractive.. but all the components and drivers are the same.

Deadmau5 has 7 of these hooked up to dolby atmos.

You can use them as a 2 way set up in your living room or surround sound and they will blow almost everything away, but running these as surround sound would cost wayy to much.

This guy is running Genelecs in his living room.

Thanks for posting, this just sounded pretty good throughout my whole house on my Sonos

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by AW335TT

I have heard those speakers before and I can tell you they are probably the best sounding speaker Ive heard. The detail and transparency is amazing, you hear every little thing in the music. I played tracks that I know very well, Ive also played those tracks on B&W 802 Diamonds running of Mcintosh amps, also on Rotel amps another time, Sonus Faber running on Mcintosh, Revel ultimas, Focals etc and I heard subtle details on the ATCs that I hadnt heard before. They also have incredible bass response, they put out a lott of bass but its veryy tight and detailed.

Yes, ATC doesnt have a regular one of this particular model, but they have smaller near fields that also have a regular model and they have larger far fields which have a regular model. The only difference is the way they design the exterior, they try to make them a litte more attractive.. but all the components and drivers are the same.

Deadmau5 has 7 of these hooked up to dolby atmos.

You can use them as a 2 way set up in your living room or surround sound and they will blow almost everything away, but running these as surround sound would cost wayy to much.

This guy is running Genelecs in his living room.

That's good to hear about your experience and it's interesting about your comparisons with speakers I have familiarity.

Originally Posted by AW335TT

What kind of room would you put these in that you think they wont work, and what speaker do you think will work and why? besides the fact that these are labeled as studio monitors.

Sorry OP for kind of derailing the thread.

Near-fields are designed for just that. Listening close in with the speaker where you're able to easily detect any acoustical variances. So yes, near-fields are accurate. But they're also designed to minimize/eliminate room effects on the sound you hear. This simply won't work for my listening. My room is relatively largish. It measures about 17' by 19 to 21' depending on which side wall. Using a near-field in a room that size at volume is going to cause issues with stereo imaging and soundstaging. Also, some of my source material are recorded live and not mixed down in a studio environment. So some direct and reflected sound is critical in reproducing the music the way it was intended. This is why a lot of people's first reaction with seeing hardwood floors was that I screwed up. I didn't. It was a recommendation by the acoustics company I consulted where he said for my intended uses having the room carpeted wall to wall would make the room too dead. Instead to use a large area rug to still allow some reflective properties and he was spot on.

[sygazelle]

I love Sonos too. I'm not an audiophile so to the nuances of a better system are lost on me. I think for the money Sonos is an excellent choice for it's market.

Actually, the system I am thinking about getting has everything I want and its affordable, and on top of all that it will play my vast collection of vinyls. Check this out:

http://www.wards.com/6-in-1-deluxe-t...FUaNfgodoGAF4w

When I'm out of the house, you know, camping, or just walking down the avenue, I can be found wearing this on my shoulder. Its a bit bulkier than earbuds, but I think the sound is better. Also, it comes with a remote so I don't have to remove the unit from my shoulder when I want to change tracks or adjust volume. Check it out.

http://www.ebay.com/p/Sony-CFD-ZW755...ombox/94223537


I think even the audiophiles, elitists, or even the dreaded audiophile elitists would agree that these two systems are top notch.

[zx10guy]

This is more in tune with my musical tastes and persona:

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

This is more in tune with my musical tastes and persona:

Actually, I like it a lot except for the red, yellow, and blue buttons on the top left. The colors are too flashy for me. Otherwise the box is great. The sound must be awesome with those great big speakers.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Actually, I like it a lot except for the red, yellow, and blue buttons on the top left. The colors are too flashy for me. Otherwise the box is great. The sound must be awesome with those great big speakers.

I'm into a bit of flare....give more street cred.

And yes, those speakers are awesome for near-field listening. It's like the homies are performing in my ear.

[AW335TT]

Ignoring the fact that you seem to be fixacted on this whole near field thing.. you could go on youtube and see how ATC speakers are used.

BUT that whole near fields minimize room effects is COMPLETE nonsense. Companies like Genelec did recently come out with software thatll tune the speakers to each room, other than that, near fields are VERY much effected by the room they are in, thats studio building 101. Room always matters.

anyway, Im over it. Those speakers are nearly $12,000 a pair, so obviously I wasnt seriously telling him to go out and buy them, but they will blow away almost everything out there.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by AW335TT

Ignoring the fact that you seem to be fixacted on this whole near field thing.. you could go on youtube and see how ATC speakers are used.

BUT that whole near fields minimize room effects is COMPLETE nonsense. Companies like Genelec did recently come out with software thatll tune the speakers to each room, other than that, near fields are VERY much effected by the room they are in, thats studio building 101. Room always matters.

anyway, Im over it. Those speakers are nearly $12,000 a pair, so obviously I wasnt seriously telling him to go out and buy them, but they will blow away almost everything out there.

And ignoring the fact you seem fixated on why near field speakers are designed for a specific reason and hence their name, this article backs up what you're calling complete nonsense:

http://www.mixonline.com/news/guides/livin-large/371417

"Forty years ago, Ed Long of Calibration Standard Instruments introduced the then-revolutionary concept of the Near-Field Monitor™ with his MDM-4 speakers, and the recording studio hasn't been the same since. There are numerous advantages to monitoring in the near-field, such as a reduction (but not elimination) of the effects of room acoustics on the listening space. Large midfield and far-field monitors are hardly suited to smaller studio environments, so along with the rise of the project studio came the popularity of near-fields."

I may have gone too far in saying near field speakers eliminates room effects but there is a universal understanding the use of near field speakers does in fact minimize room effects because of the optimization of the speaker for close in listening.

You don't have to lecture me about the importance of the room to overall acoustics. I'm one of the few that have actually spent the time in properly positioning my speakers in my dedicated room along with acoustical treatments.

But I'm over it too as you have your views on the topic and I have mine.

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

And ignoring the fact you seem fixated on why near field speakers are designed for a specific reason and hence their name, this article backs up what you're calling complete nonsense:

http://www.mixonline.com/news/guides/livin-large/371417

"Forty years ago, Ed Long of Calibration Standard Instruments introduced the then-revolutionary concept of the Near-Field Monitor™ with his MDM-4 speakers, and the recording studio hasn't been the same since. There are numerous advantages to monitoring in the near-field, such as a reduction (but not elimination) of the effects of room acoustics on the listening space. Large midfield and far-field monitors are hardly suited to smaller studio environments, so along with the rise of the project studio came the popularity of near-fields."

I may have gone too far in saying near field speakers eliminates room effects but there is a universal understanding the use of near field speakers does in fact minimize room effects because of the optimization of the speaker for close in listening.

You don't have to lecture me about the importance of the room to overall acoustics. I'm one of the few that have actually spent the time in properly positioning my speakers in my dedicated room along with acoustical treatments.

But I'm over it too as you have your views on the topic and I have mine.

That article isnt talking about the speakers themselves, its referring to the position. Saying positioning the speakers close to you will minimize room effects, since most reflections will happen behind you, its not saying near field monitors them selves reduce room effects.

[AW335TT]

Monitors and HiFi arent exclusive, there are plenty of HiFi speakers (B&W diamonds, Focal Grand utopia, Wilsons etc) that are used in mastering studios. The studio monitor is suppose to be very revealing, flat, unflattering, accurate sound and thats exactly what a high quality HiFi is suppose to be.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by AW335TT

That article isnt talking about the speakers themselves, its referring to the position. Saying positioning the speakers close to you will minimize room effects, since most reflections will happen behind you, its not saying near field monitors them selves reduce room effects.

Originally Posted by AW335TT

Monitors and HiFi arent exclusive, there are plenty of HiFi speakers (B&W diamonds, Focal Grand utopia, Wilsons etc) that are used in mastering studios. The studio monitor is suppose to be very revealing, flat, unflattering, accurate sound and thats exactly what a high quality HiFi is suppose to be.

Why do you think these speakers are called near field? They're designed to work in situations where you're sitting close to the speaker...near-field. The article goes on to say even with the design and advantages of these speakers operating close to the listener, the room does become a factor if the SPLs are high.

You mention B&W being used in studios for mixing. Here's a picture of a set of 802s used in one of Abbey Road's studios....Nothing near field about their placements.



Notice they're not being placed anywhere close to the mixing board and the audio engineer as in these near field placements.



It's clear you're going to justify your views regardless about the science and the intent of the design of why near-field speakers are called near-field for a reason.

[davis449]

^Most people think that could all be replaced with a Mac and some Sonos speakers...

[AW335TT]

Again, ignore the fact you were completely wrong about near fields minimizing room effects lol.

It goes by the size of the speaker, 805s have been used as near fields.. no one is going to put a 802 on a desk, dont be stupid.

Those ATCs have a continues max spl of 112db..

Im not justifying anything, I have experience with the speakers.

[AW335TT]

So if I was to post these, youd be fine with it?

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by AW335TT

Again, ignore the fact you were completely wrong about near fields minimizing room effects lol.

It goes by the size of the speaker, 805s have been used as near fields.. no one is going to put a 802 on a desk, dont be stupid.

Those ATCs have a continues max spl of 112db..

Im not justifying anything, I have experience with the speakers.

Well, then Mix magazine that caters to the pro audio crowd is wrong too. So I guess your expertise trumps industry experts.

The 802s in the picture I posted of one of the mixing studios at Abbey Roads could be easily moved close up to the mixer table. But they weren't. So by your logic Abbey Roads is wrong too.

And your statement about the placement based on the size of the speakers just shows how wrong you are and little you know about driver design. Especially when it comes to multiple driver setups. Let's take the 802s, since we're talking about it. The reason they'll never work as near-field speakers of which they were never designed for this is because the size of the drivers and the arrangement will cause localization of the sound from each of the drivers.

I've provided three examples of where you're wrong from random sources. You've provided zero other than your own personal experience which I can go at length with on B&W speakers as I own quite a few sets.

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Well, then Mix magazine that caters to the pro audio crowd is wrong too. So I guess your expertise trumps industry experts.

The 802s in the picture I posted of one of the mixing studios at Abbey Roads could be easily moved close up to the mixer table. But they weren't. So by your logic Abbey Roads is wrong too.

And your statement about the placement based on the size of the speakers just shows how wrong you are and little you know about driver design. Especially when it comes to multiple driver setups. Let's take the 802s, since we're talking about it. The reason they'll never work as near-field speakers of which they were never designed for this is because the size of the drivers and the arrangement will cause localization of the sound from each of the drivers.

I've provided three examples of where you're wrong from random sources. You've provided zero other than your own personal experience which I can go at length with on B&W speakers as I own quite a few sets.

First of all, you have provided nothing. The article you sent and especially the part you highlighted does NOT say studio monitors reduce room effects, it says placing a speaker close to you does.

They cant move the 802s closer, 1. because of their size, tweeter would end up being a lot closer to the person than the woofers 2. because the damn mixing board is in the way.

Just because a speaker works well up close, doesnt automatically mean it falls apart when you move it back.

Personal experience with a set of speakers trumps everything, you can read all you want.. till you hear them, you cant really argue anything.

And ill say it again, the part that you sent and highlighted DOES NOT SAY STUDIO MONITORS REDUCE THE EFFECTS OF A ROOM, IT IS REFERRING TO THE BENEFITS OF SPEAKER PLACEMENT.

AND THE REASON I BROUGHT UP B&W, FOCAL, etc WAS TO POINT OUT THAT MONITERS AND HIFI ARENT EXCLUSIVE TO EACH OTHER. A PAIR OF SPEAKERS PUSHING OUT 112DB WILL HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO ISSUES PLAYING IN A LARGE ROOM. NO MATTER HOW WELL THEY WORK UP CLOSE, THEY WILL WORK JUST AS WELL WHEN PUSHED BACK. END OF STORY.

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Well, then Mix magazine that caters to the pro audio crowd is wrong too. So I guess your expertise trumps industry experts.

The 802s in the picture I posted of one of the mixing studios at Abbey Roads could be easily moved close up to the mixer table. But they weren't. So by your logic Abbey Roads is wrong too.

And your statement about the placement based on the size of the speakers just shows how wrong you are and little you know about driver design. Especially when it comes to multiple driver setups. Let's take the 802s, since we're talking about it. The reason they'll never work as near-field speakers of which they were never designed for this is because the size of the drivers and the arrangement will cause localization of the sound from each of the drivers.

I've provided three examples of where you're wrong from random sources. You've provided zero other than your own personal experience which I can go at length with on B&W speakers as I own quite a few sets.

First of all, you have provided nothing. The article you sent and especially the part you highlighted does NOT say studio monitors reduce room effects, it says placing a speaker close to you does.

They cant move the 802s closer, 1. because of their size, tweeter would end up being a lot closer to the person than the woofers 2. because the damn mixing board is in the way.

Just because a speaker works well up close, doesnt automatically mean it falls apart when you move it back.

Personal experience with a set of speakers trumps everything, you can read all you want.. till you hear them, you cant really argue anything.

And ill say it again, the part that you sent and highlighted DOES NOT SAY STUDIO MONITORS REDUCE THE EFFECTS OF A ROOM, IT IS REFERRING TO THE BENEFITS OF SPEAKER PLACEMENT.

AND THE REASON I BROUGHT UP B&W, FOCAL, etc WAS TO POINT OUT THAT MONITERS AND HIFI ARENT EXCLUSIVE TO EACH OTHER. A PAIR OF SPEAKERS PUSHING OUT 112DB WILL HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO ISSUES PLAYING IN A LARGE ROOM. NO MATTER HOW WELL THEY WORK UP CLOSE, THEY WILL WORK JUST AS WELL WHEN PUSHED BACK. END OF STORY.

and I love how you start off by saying im wrong for saying its because of the size of the speakers but continue on to say its because of the size of the drivers. lolll

[AW335TT]

Come to think of it, the first time I heard 802 diamonds at Whilshire audio in Thousand Oaks, Ca.. they were placed right around where those black monitors next to the NS10s are and they worked perfectly.