[Stockholmarn]

Originally Posted by PLF69

Sadly for some of us this can't work for track days because of battery range + tire/brake consumables costs caused by a weight (physics)

I did a couple laps in an i4 M50 at a track day. Terrible experience unfortunately.

[spool twice]

Super impressed by the i4 M50 after driving it around BMW's Ultimate Drive event. BMW really did a wonderful job in making it feel light on it's feet, yet stable and sucked to the road in feel.

It's not as good as an G-series M3/M4 that I drove at Spartanburg at the M-driving school. It wasn't meant to be that level of extreme, but it feels like an M340i which itself drives decent for what it is.

I can't imagine how much better the M version would be and looking forward to it.

[Chicane_]

Acceleration aside, I don’t quite get the enthusiasm towards EVs. I get it, laws are changing and automakers need to adapt…. but I expected us driving enthusiasts to be the last holdouts and cling to ICE powered cars until they’re discontinued.

[vrooooom]

But acceleration is a major part of why we buy these type of cars. We are in a BMW forum after all. I have no intention of replacing my M2 for an electric but I wouldn’t mind getting an electric just to feel a bit environmentally responsible even though I actually feel we’re not really completely recognizing the negative impact of these batteries. Plus the increased rubber wear from all that burnouts. 🤣

[2Slow.]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

There is absolutely no need for a mechanical differential for locking.

You can absolutely synchronize the motor rotation electronically. The sensors and control are already there.

This is in theory. Reality is compromised somewhat.
There are few challenges here. Think of it, usual ICE car have say 500hp in 4x4 form. Modern transmission systems allow close to 100% engine torque to be vectored to any wheel in extreme, in theory. So 500hp at wheel.
EV, with 4 individual motors, one per wheel, can have max of 100% from one motor only. So only 25% of total power output. So 125hp per wheel. This is not ideal.
Cross axil diff lock in EV with 2 motors on axil will allow twice as much torque to be sent to single wheel.

Another aspect is electronic sink of two EV motors under the dinamic load/slipping. This is possible but hard to get right due to latency in motor reaction and time it take to do the calculations. Think of ABS, it's good but never perfect.
There are many more challenges with EVs, most will be perfected over the years. But some fundamentals like weight penalty will remain.

[2Slow.]

Originally Posted by Chicane_

Acceleration aside, I don’t quite get the enthusiasm towards EVs. I get it, laws are changing and automakers need to adapt…. but I expected us driving enthusiasts to be the last holdouts and cling to ICE powered cars until they’re discontinued.

A bit like racing your horses cross-country. Some of us still do it, much more fun than 911 around round track. But they are falling out of fashion 😕
Lightweight ice beats heavy ev when cornering. But unless on track, most people on the road only race in straight line between the lights.
Most people only own one car, 99% Street and rare track day driving.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by 2Slow.

This is in theory. Reality is compromised somewhat.
There are few challenges here. Think of it, usual ICE car have say 500hp in 4x4 form. Modern transmission systems allow close to 100% engine torque to be vectored to any wheel in extreme, in theory. So 500hp at wheel.
EV, with 4 individual motors, one per wheel, can have max of 100% from one motor only. So only 25% of total power output. So 125hp per wheel. This is not ideal.
Cross axil diff lock in EV with 2 motors on axil will allow twice as much torque to be sent to single wheel.

Another aspect is electronic sink of two EV motors under the dinamic load/slipping. This is possible but hard to get right due to latency in motor reaction and time it take to do the calculations. Think of ABS, it's good but never perfect.
There are many more challenges with EVs, most will be perfected over the years. But some fundamentals like weight penalty will remain.

I would disagree.
The 4x4 systems in ICE cars do not allow total toque to be channeled to any wheel.
You have limitation in theechanival systems, where tondo that you need to support maximum power at each half shaft and through the transfer case. That's not practical from a weight perspective and rarely would you need to send all power to one wheel. If you have lost traction at all but one wheel, I doubt you want all your power there.

As far as the syncing of the wheels that is no where near the problem you think. With position sensors on the motor chart you can synchronize position shaft position and speed.

The processor power required is no where near the processor power in your phone. Currently with all wheel drive systems; EV's motor synch is extremely important. That's how you do "tank turn" in the first place.

While you can add a locking differential at the front and rear all you are doing is mechanically coupling two motors that you could do electrically.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by TurboT888

EV Cars will never be as fun to drive as combustion cars saying it now in 2022 and will be saying it 2032 ������

Don't know about that. Hope there are always lots of gas muscle cars around, because its a blast beating up on them, listening to their straining engines. Take a look at the new Lucid Sapphire luxury sedan beating the Plaid, Ducati, and Chiron in a drag race.

[G30M]

anyone knows if this uses the new technology axial flux electric motors

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by PLF69

Do you think we attend HPDE track days to set records? Try do to 7x 20-30min sessions in a day with a Tesla and come back to the discussion.

Assuming your car is street legal, try and get 10 people to drive you car on the street or the Plaid for 100 miles, and see which car they have more fun in. You are right, your car is no race car, so that makes it a street car. So on the street if you are saying your car is more fun, then even that's subjective. I think it would be more fun to be able to beat most every other car out there than being beat up on all the time. If you are so interested in non competitive track time, just get a kart, and visit the local track. Higher G forces, better handling, less risk to your BMW, and more fun. The arguments against EVs are becoming more and more lame by die hard ICE "race car" BMW owners. Can you imagine have a gasoline powered washing machine, can opener, sewing machine, lol. More fun to use, even if less practical!

[Chicane_]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Assuming your car is street legal, try and get 10 people to drive you car on the street or the Plaid for 100 miles, and see which car they have more fun in. You are right, your car is no race car, so that makes it a street car. So on the street if you are saying your car is more fun, then even that's subjective. I think it would be more fun to be able to beat most every other car out there than being beat up on all the time. If you are so interested in non competitive track time, just get a kart, and visit the local track. Higher G forces, more fun.

Straight line acceleration alone isn't enough to entertain me personally. I imagine the party trick gets old after the 10th launch or so. I can see myself renting an EV while on vacation sometime to get that thrill out of my system.

[M_Torx]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Don't know about that. Hope there are always lots of gas muscle cars around, because its a blast beating up on them, listening to their straining engines. Take a look at the new Lucid Sapphire luxury sedan beating the Plaid, Ducati, and Chiron in a drag race.

https://youtu.be/EyDpQpcPpuc

the thing is it's easy to get caught speeding either by camera or radar or coming over a hill EV are only good at speeding 🫡

[carjoy]

Originally Posted by GuyOh

As someone that dislikes the current 4er (front grill and non holfmeister kink) and not the biggest fan of the m3/4 front, why do i find this thing so damn sexy???

The CAMO! lol

[dezzracer]

Originally Posted by crypto

Seems pretty cool. Everything is headed electric, so I will just hope it rivals and ideally crushes the performance offered by Tesla, Lucid, etc while continuing their higher end interior / build quality / etc. The design language of this bad boy looks promising (to me anyway) so far as well! I will keep enjoying my twin turbo V8 but will be glad to potentially look at BMW for a high performance electric when the day comes… 😂

"Everything" can't go electric because the world has nowhere near the capability or infrastructure to charge all of them. And won't have for a very long time.

Personally, I do not buy into the "electric car is going to save the planet theory" that our brilliant politicians are forcing down our throats. The net carbon reduction of an electric vehicle and their batteries is minimal. At least right now. And what to do with zillions of spent batteries.

Nope! I'm holding out and driving ICE cars to the bitter end. However, I would consider some type of hybrid.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by dezzracer

"Everything" can't go electric because the world has nowhere near the capability or infrastructure to charge all of them. And won't have for a very long time.

Personally, I do not buy into the "electric car is going to save the planet theory" that our brilliant politicians are forcing down our throats. The net carbon reduction of an electric vehicle and their batteries is minimal. At least right now. And what to do with zillions of spent batteries.

Nope! I'm holding out and driving ICE cars to the bitter end. However, I would consider some type of hybrid.

What really works is carrying a set of battery and a motor that gives you the possibility to reduce your high consumption commutes but still having the possibility to do longer distances with the peice of mind that you can refuel in 5min anywhere. Yes your carrying two engines but your actually using both more efficiently vs carrying a huge capacity (batteries) your using like 20% capacity most of the time.

My girlfriend has around a 10mile total commute to work, our X3 30e has around 18 electric miles range so she even has some to stop to pickup our kid or go to the grocery store while coming back and will use basically 0 fuel in a week but on the weekend we never have to think or plan differently that if we'd have a regular ice car. Using case is key. We get a combined MPG in the 46-50 range with our usage.

We have an electric Mini Cooper at work with a range of around 65-85 miles depending on season and it serves only to drive around the city to different building's and construction sites, it's perfect for our needs and we don't waste a huge battery capacity for nothing. It's always plugged in at the end of the day.

I could not have a electric only vehicle since I do trips where there are no chargers and I'd have to carry a gas generator to charge my car wich is just plain stupid. My next daily will be an X5 45e or the new CX-90 that's coming.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by dezzracer

"Everything" can't go electric because the world has nowhere near the capability or infrastructure to charge all of them. And won't have for a very long time.

Personally, I do not buy into the "electric car is going to save the planet theory" that our brilliant politicians are forcing down our throats. The net carbon reduction of an electric vehicle and their batteries is minimal. At least right now. And what to do with zillions of spent batteries.

Nope! I'm holding out and driving ICE cars to the bitter end. However, I would consider some type of hybrid.

The "everything can't charge" is a specious argument because all cars can't fuel at the same time either. A worst case scenario assumes we all need to charge at once, but a worst case scenario with ICE cars needing fueling is long lines.

After 10-15k miles the EV becomes green compared to ICE. I also don't believe that the EV is the savior to the planet unless we have much cheaper and cleaner electricity.

I also believe that newer pellet nuclear reactors are a better solution than huge solar farms. With cheap electricity then hydrogen fuel cells look attractive. They don't as long as you have to use expensive electric power to get hydrogen or use petroleum based products to get it.

Hybrids are a good alternative.

I'm doing electric because we've had three EV's so far. A leased Fiat 500e, leased Bolt and now an owned Bolt. All great and fun to drive. In six months or less we will have my M50 and a Fisker Ocean One added to the Bolt.

We needed new vehicles so we went EV. My car was totaled so I decided M50. My wife needs a car to commute 120 miles a day and an EV looks like the best option.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

The "everything can't charge" is a specious argument because all cars can't fuel at the same time either. A worst case scenario assumes we all need to charge at once, but a worst case scenario with ICE cars needing fueling is long lines.

After 10-15k miles the EV becomes green compared to ICE. I also don't believe that the EV is the savior to the planet unless we have much cheaper and cleaner electricity.

I also believe that newer pellet nuclear reactors are a better solution than huge solar farms. With cheap electricity then hydrogen fuel cells look attractive. They don't as long as you have to use expensive electric power to get hydrogen or use petroleum based products to get it.

Hybrids are a good alternative.

I'm doing electric because we've had three EV's so far. A leased Fiat 500e, leased Bolt and now an owned Bolt. All great and fun to drive. In six months or less we will have my M50 and a Fisker Ocean One added to the Bolt.

We needed new vehicles so we went EV. My car was totaled so I decided M50. My wife needs a car to commute 120 miles a day and an EV looks like the best option.

Indeed in the case you know your commute isn't going to change and is pretty much set then getting an EV with some range buffer that fits is a very good idea for now, there is going to be some sort war between the government losing taxes on fuel and trying to recoup by inventing new taxes on EV cars or having you pay for using the roads or per mile etc.

[dezzracer]

I remember reading article 2 years ago the top dog at BMW saying they are not giving up the ICE. Technology will eventually gives us small engines capable of hi hp and 50-60 mpg. This combined with battery power makes sense to me and I would consider driving one.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by PLF69

Indeed in the case you know your commute isn't going to change and is pretty much set then getting an EV with some range buffer that fits is a very good idea for now, there is going to be some sort war between the government losing taxes on fuel and trying to recoup by inventing new taxes on EV cars or having you pay for using the roads or per mile etc.

So my commute is 20 feet to my outside office. I am permanently at home and only to the office about once a quarter. For me the M50 is a weekend vehicle.

My wife has a set commute and it would get shorter. With the Fisker range of 350 it means charging every other day. Even if it's 275 in reality.

They already have a surcharge on EV registration in California.

[Unservati]

Whoops,just messed my pants.

[Unbuckled2579]

The M Electric Engine Prototype.

MEEP MEEP

[SatinblkF90]

Originally Posted by dezzracer

I remember reading article 2 years ago the top dog at BMW saying they are not giving up the ICE. Technology will eventually gives us small engines capable of hi hp and 50-60 mpg. This combined with battery power makes sense to me and I would consider driving one.

Sounds like your already describing what the new c63s is. ICE engine alone in that is a 2.0L 4 banger pumping out nearly 500hp (with a tune it would be well over 500hp ice alone)+ a 200hp electric motors added to it.

I still hate it and would never want to drive that compared to something like a 4.4l biturbo v8 awd m5 or e63s. I guess the new models that will be v8 hybrid will be interesting to see, but doesn’t seem like that gt63sE is all that great on gas as the hybrids they are doing are primarily there for added performance while still being more “efficient” than pure ICE.