[O-cha]

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

Based on lap times later?? Based on the planets aligning correctly?? Who won the race and by a pretty large margin? Umm...no son...maybe you should go back and watch and listen. Once SB knew LH was gaining he responded with nearly exact lap times. So how would LH have caught him then? Even in your LH ruling fantasyland where there was no SC delay, LH would not have caught SB and won the race. But I'm sure you'll wave your magic crystal ball and figure out a way to disprove me on that as well.

I swear you LH fans are such biased douches. I have zero problem acknowledging LH when he does well despite the fact that he has zero class. Yet you LH lovers will come up with greater fantasies than those written by JRR Tolkien to make excuses for LH. Such a joke.

You should really learn about the sport in depth before entering into predictive and hypothetical discussion with people. You need to know about it more in depth to do ao.

After Hamilton got the penalty he was pushing to regain the lost time, all the time using up tire and fuel, much more so then Sebastian who was just cruising. That should be obvious since he was catching them.

Yes once he started getting close near the END of the race Sebastian stepped up his lap times to match, but he had been literally cruising the whole time since then and his tires would be in much better condition, he could have run even faster by then if he had wanted actually but there was no need to.

And for the record I am not a "LH fan" I am a fan of both red bull and Mclaren teams and drivers. I am not annoyed that Hamilton lost out on first place but that we did not get to see a battle that WOULD have most definitely happened later in the race.

I am an anti fan of ferrari and Alonso, so you can Imagine I was happy to see what happened.

[KANdaddy]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Your bitterness and misplaced anger is just hilarious and delicious
You are really going to call LH the whiner in this instance .. who is doing the whining ? pretty sure it's coming from a ego maniac spaniard after being overtaken by a Sauber !!!!

Toolbox, I am referring to LH's behavior overall this season, not just the last race. Yes, FA was the bigger whiner last weekend. Does not dismiss that overall LH is leading the race for biggest douche of 2010.

Originally Posted by O-cha

You should really learn about the sport in depth before entering into predictive and hypothetical discussion with people. You need to know about it more in depth to do ao.

After Hamilton got the penalty he was pushing to regain the lost time, all the time using up tire and fuel, much more so then Sebastian who was just cruising. That should be obvious since he was catching them.

Yes once he started getting close near the END of the race Sebastian stepped up his lap times to match, but he had been literally cruising the whole time since then and his tires would be in much better condition, he could have run even faster by then if he had wanted actually but there was no need to.

And for the record I am not a "LH fan" I am a fan of both red bull and Mclaren teams and drivers. I am not annoyed that Hamilton lost out on first place but that we did not get to see a battle that WOULD have most definitely happened later in the race.

I am an anti fan of ferrari and Alonso, so you can Imagine I was happy to see what happened.

I humbly respect and agree with your statement here. Well said and thought out. Still, I have to disagree on one point, that "if" LH had somehow been able to take the fight to SV that he would have come out on the short end of the stick on that one. But I am talking 'ifs' here and the reality is SV won. On to the next race please.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

Toolbox, I am referring to LH's behavior overall this season, not just the last race. Yes, FA was the bigger whiner last weekend. Does not dismiss that overall LH is leading the race for biggest douche of 2010.

I humbly respect and agree with your statement here. Well said and thought out. Still, I have to disagree on one point, that "if" LH had somehow been able to take the fight to SV that he would have come out on the short end of the stick on that one. But I am talking 'ifs' here and the reality is SV won. On to the next race please.

To briefly add, if we are discussing 'ifs' then Hamilton's pressure on Vettel could have created an opportunity otherwise unseen. It is no secret that Vettel's car has had reliability issues this season. Hamilton had the speed to catch up in order to at least make the racing part of the race remotely interesting.

Vettel's strolling win through Valencia leaves much to be desired. Whether it is enshrouded by drama and rule-bending or not. If all the teams followed all the rules perfectly, this season would be quite a bore.

It also appears that many people that hate Hamilton, absolutely love to express that hatred. Over on pf1 as well.

[Javi335]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

^lol.


And hey, Zo is a complete angel.

No he isnt. But Hamilton is going beyond all that i see before, honestly.

[revster]

Originally Posted by Javi335

No he isnt. But Hamilton is going beyond all that i see before, honestly.

Uh, Singapore '08.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

It also appears that many people that hate Hamilton, absolutely love to express that hatred. Over on pf1 as well.

There's so much hate for LH regardless of watever. its a disgrace that many F1 fans "blindly" hate LH just because he's really good on the track or for watever reason.

Every radio transmission that LH did was magnified in pf1 and stating he arrogant and cocky or watever. e.g. "Vettel hit me! Vettel hit me!" was magnified 10000x that he was an arrogant bastard....and saying LH hit SV instead....
the matter of the fact is....he's just trying to say he had contact with SV and there's vibration on the steering....an alert to the engineers....*i hope* that's all he was trying to say....

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

Toolbox, I am referring to LH's behavior overall this season, not just the last race. Yes, FA was the bigger whiner last weekend. Does not dismiss that overall LH is leading the race for biggest douche of 2010.

When did you lose the lead?? What did I miss?
I really hope Ferrari get smacked down with a one race ban for their outburst.. or maybe a $100,000,000 fine..
Oh wait, that's right ... Mclaren is the only team that gets these kinds of insane fines... not even Renault for fixing a race or Ferrari for calling the sport's integrity into question... cuz they are manufacturers and God forbid they should threaten to walk away from the sport... What would F1 be with no red cars and egomaniac Spanish short men

[Javi335]

Originally Posted by revster

Uh, Singapore '08.

Uh, GP Europe 07?

Uh, Hungary 07?

Uh, Japan 07?

Uh, Malasia 08?

Uh, Belgium 08?

Uh, Japan 08?

Uh, Australia 09?

Uh, Valencia 010?

Search for another 7 my friend

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by Ramos

When did you lose the lead?? What did I miss?
I really hope Ferrari get smacked down with a one race ban for their outburst.. or maybe a $100,000,000 fine..
Oh wait, that's right ... Mclaren is the only team that gets these kinds of insane fines... not even Renault for fixing a race or Ferrari for calling the sport's integrity into question... cuz they are manufacturers and God forbid they should threaten to walk away from the sport... What would F1 be with no red cars and egomaniac Spanish short men

just saying...Renault was saved from FIA race ban and fine because Flavio Briatore and Pay Sydmonds quit Renault immediately since they were the ones organize the race fix....they quit to save Renault....and Alonso....

[Javi335]

I dont think Alonso were the "brain" of that cheat. He knows it? yeah, probably.

Both team and driver cheats are bad, but i mean, Alonso, on the track itself, is a fair driver. I never see him doing things like Hamilton or Schumi to win, thats what im talking about.

[Javi335]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Umm hamilton was saving tire and fuel prior to the penalty, neither guy was running all out but hamilton was creeping up on him, and based on the lap times later in the race he had the ability to catch him. Maybe you should pay more attention.

Im blind with Alonso, but you same with LH

Forget about he was there because the SC? If Hamilton and Alonso get in boxes at the same time, Alonso would come out go of boxes ahead Lewis easily. So, bye bye 2nd place, bye bye Vettel. And, if his drive trough had been 2 or 3 laps max after, (as it should have been, not 20 laps!) ... guess what?

[KANdaddy]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

To briefly add, if we are discussing 'ifs' then Hamilton's pressure on Vettel could have created an opportunity otherwise unseen. It is no secret that Vettel's car has had reliability issues this season. Hamilton had the speed to catch up in order to at least make the racing part of the race remotely interesting.

Def would have made an exciting finish, although SV would have taken him

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

It also appears that many people that hate Hamilton, absolutely love to express that hatred. Over on pf1 as well.

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

There's so much hate for LH regardless of watever. its a disgrace that many F1 fans "blindly" hate LH just because he's really good on the track or for watever reason.

Only speaking for myself here but I do not blindly hate him. He is just a spoiled punk but a great driver. I think the reason that there are so many vocal LH haters is b/c he has been billed since Day One as the end-all-be-all of F1 drivers and that has obviously gone to his head. great driver, with tons of potential? ABSOLUTELY. Same can be said for a handful of other drivers too. God's gift to F1? Heck no...at least he hasn't proven it yet. It doesn't help that all the LH fanboys out there think he walks on water and refuse to admit he's just only as good as the other good drivers in F1. Again...one championship-a-God-does-not-one-make. i really liked him his first year or so...he was humble and exciting. But now he's just a...well....a jerk, IMO.

Originally Posted by Ramos

When did you lose the lead?? What did I miss?

I'm talking about drivers. I'm still top douche around here...at least until you open your mouth again

Originally Posted by Javi335

but i mean, Alonso, on the track itself, is a fair driver. I never see him doing things like Hamilton or Schumi to win, thats what im talking about.

Agree. I think FA has gotten a bad rap and been in the wrong place at the wrong time when it comes to politics. On track he is aggressive and hungry and shows it but overall a good sport.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

Toolbox, I am referring to LH's behavior overall this season, not just the last race. Yes, FA was the bigger whiner last weekend. Does not dismiss that overall LH is leading the race for biggest douche of 2010.

I humbly respect and agree with your statement here. Well said and thought out. Still, I have to disagree on one point, that "if" LH had somehow been able to take the fight to SV that he would have come out on the short end of the stick on that one. But I am talking 'ifs' here and the reality is SV won. On to the next race please.

Dude you aren't listening at all, I never said either Sebastian or Hamilton would come out on top, I said he would be in contention for first, when you used the fact that later in the race when hamilton had tire he had been pushing with hard for half the race and sebastian had tires he had been cruising on that sebastian could respond as proof that he wouldn't even stand a chance.

That's what I'm talking about.

[Javi335]

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

Agree. I think FA has gotten a bad rap and been in the wrong place at the wrong time when it comes to politics. On track he is aggressive and hungry and shows it but overall a good sport.

Its ok to me when polemics come from a pure race incident, i try to overtake, there's no place enough, we crash ... but its racing

Change direction on a straight 4 times like he did with Petrov this year is not a incident, for example.

And if wrong, please remind me 9 situations of Alonso like it happens with this kid (and how many of them if he wasnt penalized for)

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by Javi335

Its ok to me when polemics come from a pure race incident, i try to overtake, there's no place enough, we crash ... but its racing

Change direction on a straight 4 times like he did with Petrov this year is not a incident, for example.

And if wrong, please remind me 9 situations of Alonso like it happens with this kid (and how many of them if he wasnt penalized for)

Dude, you're Spanish.. You can't be objective.. so just shut up
Good job with Spain today by the way... They look great and have a pretty easy quarter final ahead of them.

[revster]

Originally Posted by Javi335

Im blind with Alonso

Yup.

[Javi335]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Dude, you're Spanish.. You can't be objective.. so just shut up
Good job with Spain today by the way... They look great and have a pretty easy quarter final ahead of them.

Alonso is my favourite, yes. Now that Raikkonen left.

[Javi335]

The fact is, you LH supporters always avoid talking about the subjetc in question.

Hamilton does a outrageos cheat, but im Alonso fan so im not objective. He could made anything he wants, no matter what. If tomorrow he drop oil on the track like Kitt, my Spain flag doesnt allow to say that was a cheat.

What's next? im an racist?

[E90SLAM]

LH cheated? maybe....whether if he intentional or not....

Teams and drivers are known to find loopholes in sporting regulations so things can work better and smoother for them. DDD for Brawn GP last year, Mass damper, F-duct, Fuel sample for McLaren in Canadian Qualifying, the supposed "Filming Day" for Ferrari....etc etc...

LH has caught passing the SC after it had passed the line....so he was investigated and proven guilty, thus handed the drive through penalty. Penalty served, dues are paid. get on with it.

The reason for such a big roar from the Ferrari because they were just simply very unlucky this race because of the Safety car....however....FA was also being helped by SC in Monaco as well....to me....this time it was just whining.....

[Javi335]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

LH cheated? maybe....whether if he intentional or not....

Teams and drivers are known to find loopholes in sporting regulations so things can work better and smoother for them. DDD for Brawn GP last year, Mass damper, F-duct, Fuel sample for McLaren in Canadian Qualifying, the supposed "Filming Day" for Ferrari....etc etc...

Im not talking about teams, im talking about drivers.

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

LH has caught passing the SC after it had passed the line....so he was investigated and proven guilty, thus handed the drive through penalty. Penalty served, dues are paid. get on with it.

After how many laps? at the end, did the "maneuver" detrimental or favourable to him?

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

The reason for such a big roar from the Ferrari because they were just simply very unlucky this race because of the Safety car....however....FA was also being helped by SC in Monaco as well....to me....this time it was just whining.....

The situation is not comparable to when SC appears in front all the cars. It can be god or bad dependes on where you are, just luck. Overtake SC is not luck, is cheat. Doing it by the way braking to block the driver behind you is apart, i dare say, of being a bad person.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by Javi335

Im not talking about teams, im talking about drivers.



After how many laps? at the end, did the "maneuver" detrimental or favourable to him?



The situation is not comparable to when SC appears in front all the cars. It can be god or bad dependes on where you are, just luck. Overtake SC is not luck, is cheat. Doing it by the way braking to block the driver behind you is apart, i dare say, of being a bad person.

I do not think punishing LH is the top priority for the race control and stewards at the moment. Their main focus is to make sure MW is ok, the track is being cleared, keeping check where is the safety car is and making sure the marshals are out of the way when the pack pass the turn with all the debris.
Then announce when the SC is going back and the track is going green.

There's so much thing that they had to prioritize before investigate LH's offence. Then the normal TV camera coverage didn't provide solid evidence that LH passed the SC before or after the line. Then they had to take some time to get the airel footages from the FIA helicopter. So by the time they start investigate, get solid proofs, analyze, then announce the punishment, that took couple laps. Then there's written rule for the driver to serve the penalty within 2 laps.

So there you go. You will NEVER see a driver got penalized immediately when there's a questionable offence.

http://planet-f1.com/news/3213/62369...-difficulties-

Regardless of teams or drivers....as long as there's loop hole in the regulation, they will find it...and attempt to maximize the advantage in favor to them.
It wasn't illegal if I didn't get caught. (e.g. speeding)

To be honest...this was actually a non-event. I don't see the big issue about it. Ferrari made it sounds like the end of the world...

[E90SLAM]

In additional, Ferrari will need to look at their SC-pit strategy. Stacking TWO CARS at the same time is just not brilliant. wasting time waiting behind your teammate.