[330CIZHP]

A 67 year old Naruse lapping the race track vs 48 years old race-car driver Scott Pruett lapping the same race track:

Naruse has very sharp motor reactions to rapidly changing directions of the road. Although, Naruse does not seem to be revving it all the way over 9000 rpm. However, it could be that Naruse was not pushing it as hard as he possibly could.

However, Scott seems to be pushing the LF-A much harder and revving it a lot higher and taking turns harder


48-year old race car driver Scott Pruett lapping in the LF-A:

67-year old Hiromu Naruse lapping in the LF-A:

[FStop7]

I hope when I'm 67 someone doesn't come along and tell me I'm too old to have fun.

[parafrog1]

Originally Posted by EJ_92606

Well the accident happened on a public road and not on a test track, so presumably he was driving at much below the limits. I think there is much more to being a test driver than being the absolute fastest driver there is, although it sounds like this guy, even at his age was very fast.

I'm on board with you. I wouldn't presume to know the circumstances of the accident. I wasn't there.

But accident aside- Should this guy have been pushing the LFA to its limits as king ding-a-ling tester for Lexus? I know airplanes are not exactly the same, but my analogy still holds water. You simply don't have the old crusty dude pushing your cutting edge machine to its limits-- which his notes contribute to its development. What you DO do is - You have a guy at the top of his game doing it. The crusty old dude is there for reference and to slap the young studs in the back of the head when they act stupid. He's FULL of knowledge and you leverage that to turn out the best car you can.

Yes, at 67 years old, I still hope I'm having fun doing what i love too. But shit Man! 99% of 67 year olds should not even be on the road. I'm not being an A-hole either. This guy's reaction time is not even close to what it was 30 years ago. Like people on this thread have said, he could have had a heart attack or stroke and drifted in the oncoming lane. Did this dude even have a physical? I doubt it. He was working off of his legend.

Damn, I dunno......I think this dude was THE shit so he worked off his legend status and no one questioned it. So he kept at it. I refuse to believe that no one at Lexus thought "Should this guy be doing this at his stage in life?"......I mean, when do they make airline pilots stop flying airplanes? 60? And I'm guessing that driving the LFA is MUCH more demanding at it limits, which this guy was tasked to do.

Thoughts?

[parafrog1]

Originally Posted by FStop7

I hope when I'm 67 someone doesn't come along and tell me I'm too old to have fun.

You are not too old to have fun-- rock out for as long as you can, but If you're a test pilot for a one of a kind machine with limits like the LFA, someone will probably at least question it.

Again, I'm not an ageist. As long as your capable-- do what makes you you happy. Sky dive, bull ride, track your car, triathlon, whatever. But when your ability is a determent to you life; its time to quit.

[AlexL]

Such a tragedy. RIP Naruse-san. Speedy recovery to the survivors.

[bobbyd1961]

thats horrible

[Koroush]

I blame the LFA for being unsafe.

RIP.

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by Koroush

I blame the LFA for being unsafe.

RIP.

That makes no sense. For one, the car was a Nurburgring edition early prototype with lots of electronics and computers in it and was only being used on the track and back to the workshop near the track.

Secondly, speed is a huge determining factor in the chances of survival. Reports are that the LF-A was approaching the turn very fast. The faster the car travels, the more inertia is going to brake things harder suddenly and the more internal organs will suffer instantaneous stress due to forces acting in the opposite direction resulting in higher levels of blunt force trauma.

What about weight? The LF-A Nurburgring edition weighs around 3100 lbs ( ~ 100 lbs lighter than standard LF-A) and about 300 lbs lighter than the 3-series. What about ride height? Even 1 inch ride height difference can make a huge difference in the outcome of an accident. The LF-A is much lower than the 3-series increasing the possibility of the LF-A going under the 3-series.

Case in point, too many variables here.

[Scoobe]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

That makes no sense. For one, the car was a Nurburgring edition early prototype with lots of electronics and computers in it and was only being used on the track and back to the workshop near the track.

Secondly, speed is a huge determining factor in the chances of survival. Reports are that the LF-A was approaching the turn very fast. The faster the car travels, the more inertia is going to brake things harder suddenly and the more internal organs will suffer instantaneous stress due to forces acting in the opposite direction resulting in higher levels of blunt force trauma.

What about weight? The LF-A Nurburgring edition weighs around 3100 lbs ( ~ 100 lbs lighter than standard LF-A) and about 300 lbs lighter than the 3-series. What about ride height? Even 1 inch ride height difference can make a huge difference in the outcome of an accident. The LF-A is much lower than the 3-series increasing the possibility of the LF-A going under the 3-series.

Case in point, too many variables here.

Lots of variables sure, but regardless it will raise questions about the safety of the car. That being said, Toyota will obviously study the car carefully and be able to correct any safety concerns. I doubt they were throwing LFA's around in crash testing so this will serve as a good study of its safety. And no matter what the factors are, in some peoples minds it will have questions about its safety, right or wrong.

[Bdez]

Originally Posted by Scoobe

Nope, Krupp Steel is forged from ore, as is most of US steel for auto manufacturing. Japan has no ore, thus they import and recycle all of their steel. To my knowledge, Japan imports no ore and have no ore foundries. Much cheaper to import crushed cars. Here and in Germany however, its cheaper to foundry ore than to recycle it.

edit: We do recycle steel here as well, but to my knowledge its not used often in auto manufacturing.

Just wanted to set the record straight - iron ore is exported to Japan - curshed cars ? I cant see ships loaded with bunches of crushed cars sailing into Japan ports.

Check out http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-1225844009441

[FStop7]

I blame Isaac Newton.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by AlexL

Such a tragedy. RIP Naruse-san. Speedy recovery to the survivors.

+1

Simple, well put.

[JohnnyRoaster]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

A 67 year old Naruse lapping the race track vs 48 years old race-car driver Scott Pruett lapping the same race track:

Naruse has very sharp motor reactions to rapidly changing directions of the road. Although, Naruse does not seem to be revving it all the way over 9000 rpm. However, it could be that Naruse was not pushing it as hard as he possibly could.

However, Scott seems to be pushing the LF-A much harder and revving it a lot higher and taking turns harder


48-year old race car driver Scott Pruett lapping in the LF-A:

67-year old Hiromu Naruse lapping in the LF-A:

Same track but two different courses. Naruse was on the road course and Pruett was on the oval. I would say Naruse is driving faster than Pruett given he was on the more challenging course.

This was the first crash Naruse has ever had in a prototype vehicle. I don't think that can be said of any other 67 year old test driver. It is silly to suggest that the person who created the LFA was too old to be a test driver for the car.

I know it is speculation but I don't think he was at fault for this awful wreck. I think the BMW came out of the corner wide and Naruse tried to avoid the BMW. It is pretty easy to find the turn on Google earth if you look for the pond on 410 near Eifel. It would have been way too early for Naruse to be cutting the apex. Either something broke on the Lexus or Naruse crossed into the oncoming lane in to try and avoid the other car.

He was to Toyota what Carroll Shelby is to Ford. RIP

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by bdh2009

Just wanted to set the record straight - iron ore is exported to Japan - curshed cars ? I cant see ships loaded with bunches of crushed cars sailing into Japan ports.

Check out http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-1225844009441

The cars are shredded here and the scrap is sent all over the world.

[Bdez]

Originally Posted by EJ_92606

The cars are shredded here and the scrap is sent all over the world.

Maybe but iron ore is still used to make steel in Japan - and I don't think Jap cars are made with American scrap metal

[Scoobe]

The recycling of scrap iron and steel plays an important role in supplying precious raw materials for steel in Japan, which has almost no natural resources, and it has accompanied the development of Japan since the Meiji Period (which started in 1868). These days, recycled iron and steel scrap accounts for nearly 30 million tons of the nearly 100 million tons of steel produced in Japan.

[Scoobe]

btw China has doubled their imports of scrap metal in just two years, driving up the price. I think all cars are about to get more expensive.

[Scoobe]

"
By 2020, China, using recycled automobile aluminum in vehicles, should surpass the Japanese automakers.

Read more: Ways to Reuse Metal | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_6016870_way...#ixzz0ry4tnmOo

[Scoobe]

"Today, most recycled aluminum has to be adjusted with more costly and energy-intense primary metal before it is reused in order to meet the performance requirements of most alloy and product specifications. The result is that, in most cases other than beverage cans, recycled metal tends to be used primarily for lower grade casting alloys or wrought products."

http://www.metalworld.co.in/technology0309.pdf

[Tony B]

Originally Posted by parafrog1

In shape or not, 67 years on this planet is pretty old. And I would say too old to be a test driver for a car like that. Legend or not- his time was up and he had NO business being in that car and testing it for Lexus.

Just like a test pilot for a fighter aircraft, you need a test pilot in their prime with FULL command of their body, mind, faculties, etc..

This guy's ability to react to the car and provide precise input at critical times MUST have been terribly lacking.

Let me say that this is a terrible thing and I wish his family the best. At the least, he died doing what he loved.

But its my position that this guy had NO business behind the wheel of this thing at his age. Hey guys, talk to a 67 year old person some time. See how they move. I mean, seriously? It's like putting Chuck Yeager in an F-22 to test it right as he's approaching 70 years old. Doesn't make much sense, does it?

Just my humble opinion

What a completely ridiculous post.

Would you say the same about Walter Rohrl, who is 63? And dont tell me 4 years makes a huge difference. If you are fit, and constantly pushing yourself being 67 is a whole lot better than being some couch potato 40 year old, or some over-testosteroned 20 year old.

[Tony B]

Originally Posted by oldmanstyle

RIP

I find it odd that on a performance car forum where most promote safe driving habits that everyone is overlooking the strong likelihood that he was driving like a test driver on a public road and almost killed 2 other people. If it was some random civilian driver in that LFA he would be getting skewered right now.

If you spend substantial amounts of time testing on the Ring, you probably have little interest in hooning around on public roads, where any thrills will be very tame by comparison. You will also be fully aware that the police in the region are regularly on the lookout for those that do seek their thrills on the public roads.

[parafrog1]

Originally Posted by Tony B

What a completely ridiculous post.

Would you say the same about Walter Rohrl, who is 63? And dont tell me 4 years makes a huge difference. If you are fit, and constantly pushing yourself being 67 is a whole lot better than being some couch potato 40 year old, or some over-testosteroned 20 year old.

I've already addressed Rohrl. Guys like this know the track like the back of their hand. They driven it sooo many times and could probably drive it with their eyes closed...-- but I'd still argue he's now probably at the point where he shouldn't be pushing super cars to the edge of their limits.

I'm not suggesting that some 20 year old thrill junkie should be doing it. There are plenty of veteran drivers with resumes to do it.

Being a fit 67 year old still does not negate the simple fact that a person's motor skills and reaction time diminish significantly as they reach later stages in life. Back to my analogy about test fighter pilots- they aren't a direct comparison to cars, but you get my point. There is a reason that guys like Chuck Yeager don't test fighter planes.

I'd bet the farm that his age was a direct contributing factor to the accident. Whether it was a heart attack/stroke, or he simply couldn't avoid the wreck. We'll probably never know-- and I'll be the first to admit I was wrong if to was something simply unavoidable due mechanical failure.

For you to say my post is ridiculous is not saying much. Regardless of the cause of the wreck, can you not admit that a 67 year old dude-- regardless of his status, should probably not be your chief test pilot for such a beast of a car? I mean he should still drive it and provide feedback, but pushing it to its limits? I say no. Maybe we just agree to disagree. But I wouldn't say that my post is ridiculous.