[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

I don't want to include all the "garage built" cars or Lotus.

Lotus is wortheless outside the track on daily basis - that's what they were made for and they are very good at it.

Prior to trade in my Cayman for the 1M due to reliability issues with the Cayman's engine (I owned two Caymans with the very same issue) I obviously test-drove the Lotus Evora, the engine having Toyota's reliability trademark. However, I could not have lived with it on a daily basis due to the lack of space. Getting in and out of the car was a PITA and even adjusting the seat to better support my back was a tiring experience as I couldn't easily reach the adjusting lever with the hand.

[GoingTooFast]

And the circle has closed itself...



The best italo-japanese connection, Kamui Kobayashi driving for Ferrari. Pure cuore sportivo. Not F1 yet but it's a BIG step... he will be driving GTe Pro's AF Corse Ferrari 458. The dream is getting closer to become reality.

As far as cars and car motorsports go this year will be the start of a new come back for the japanese and italian car industry. I'm looking forward to it and my next car only hardly it won't be japanese or italian.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

You can buy a Toyobaru or you can go to that extreme... what does make sense to you?!

It seems that someone just answered to it with flying colors (the engine is still N/A but with a tune)...

[GoingTooFast]

I think the following quote just sumarizes what the Toyobaru and this thread is ALL about I really hope you can realize it.... I wouldn't put it better myself:

Originally Posted by track_warrior

People forget that heavier cars with tons of power are still boats, compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

[GoingTooFast]

MEGANE 265 CUP AND SUBARU BRZ: FAST VS FUN

So you're in the fortunate position to lavish £25,000 on a new car. It has to be a bit special, too; not just your usual high-spec diesel. Something to get the pulse racing, in other words. Something worthy of a PHer.

Question is, do you pick a car that's fast, or one that's fun? Or to be more precise, because fast by definition means fun, which type of fun to choose? Edge of your seat thrills from a car that's poised and precise? Or a laugh riot kind of car that's only too keen to let its hair down?
We've chosen to represent the latter here with the Subaru BRZ, a giggle of a car if ever there was one. And to represent the former, our trusty Megane 265 Cup long termer - about as sharp as a hot hatch gets. But standing twixt Subaru and Renault dealerships, with a hypothetical £25,000 burning a hole in your pocket, which way would you turn?


Plastic fantastic

Jumping into the BRZ first you need to look past a slightly confused mass of curves and angles, not to mention plastics that'd feel more at home in a Hyundai Accent circa 1997. But it all feels solid. And the driving position is inherently sporty, placing your backside low down and your legs stretched out.


There's a gratifying little snarl to the engine, aided by the pipe that feeds sound into the cabin from the intake manifold. OK, so it's not entirely natural, but crucially, the noise doesn't come at you from the stereo speakers. The gearchange is a highlight, too; it feels as though excessive damping has deliberately been avoided, and the result is a shift that feels direct and mechanical, clunking satisfyingly into each ratio. The elephant in the room, of course, is power. Does the BRZ lack it? No. Could it take more? Almost certainly. But it does feel as though there's - just - enough, and that works better than you might think because it spurs you on to rev it more, to drive it harder.


Off the line

That said, it goes without saying that it simply doesn't stand a chance against the Megane in a drag race. The Renault's engine is a corker. Power comes brutally and near-instantly, in any gear, accompanied by an ethereal whoosh from the turbo. Occasionally, if you're lucky, it'll even reward you with a subtle pop as you lift off for a gearchange. Fast? Oh yeah, it's that - and devastatingly so.

But while the Megane thrashes the BRZ in raw performance terms, in other areas it's less convincing. Take the interior, for example. It's here the Megane really shows it's been adapted for purpose from a hatchback, unlike the BRZ. True, there's the joyous geekery of the Renaultsport Monitor to play with. But on the whole, it doesn't quite have the fundamental rightness of the Subaru. It's partly the fault of the driving position, which even after aeons of fumbling, still leaves you feeling too far from the wheel or too close to the pedals, and never quite gets you low enough in the car. What's more, straight after the meatier controls of the BRZ, the Megane's steering and pedals feel comparatively light and spongy; its gearchange, too, feels rangier and less taut. In short, it just doesn't feel quite as special or as well-sorted.

That changes once you hit some corners, though. It's not that the BRZ doesn't feel well set up; it's just clearly not been designed with ultimate pace in mind. It's still quick in the dry, though, with a chunky, stable feeling that inspires confidence, and plenty of grip to boot. It's still a stretch away from being able to keep up, though, as it simply doesn't have the power to drive it out of corners in quite the same way.


Playing for laughs

In the wet, however, there's no comparison. The Megane blats off down the road, immersing you in the experience, ducking and diving into the next corner and strong-arming its way out with such consummate ease that a stolen glance at the speedo results in widened eyes. Meanwhile, the BRZ's still somewhere two corners back, slithering around and trying to go sideways instead of forwards. "Nope, that ain't happening," it says, as you feed in the throttle. "But look - I can do big skids instead!" It isn't as quick as the Megane, then - but it doesn't half make you grin.
So which is the victor here? Fast, or fun? Well, let's face it: the conclusion to this test was never going to be 100 per cent definitive because it depends on so many subjective variables. If you want nerve-tingling power, astonishing grip, and an all-out adrenaline rush - not to mention, bragging rights - you'll buy the Renault and live with its deficiencies.

If you want slithery fun, easily-accessible thrills, and a car that makes you feel you're in something special every minute you're driving it, you'll ignore the lack of power and buy the BRZ. In other words, you'll pick your favourite. And because it doesn't take itself too seriously, because it feels more special for more of the time, and because it makes you laugh more readily than the Renault makes you gasp, on this occasion fun wins.

[woosh]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

It seems that someone just answered to it with flying colors (the engine is still N/A but with a tune)...

Australia REPPIN it up!

[track_warrior]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

I think the following quote just sumarizes what the Toyobaru and this thread is ALL about I really hope you can realize it.... I wouldn't put it better myself:

[abisson]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

And the circle has closed itself...



The best italo-japanese connection, Kamui Kobayashi driving for Ferrari. Pure cuore sportivo. Not F1 yet but it's a BIG step... he will be driving GTe Pro's AF Corse Ferrari 458. The dream is getting closer to become reality.

As far as cars and car motorsports go this year will be the start of a new come back for the japanese and italian car industry. I'm looking forward to it and my next car only hardly it won't be japanese or italian.

Kobayashi will never drive for Ferrari in F1. Are you high?!

[08msicks]

I was wondering when they were gonna come out with a faster version of the Brz cuz they are super popular now a days

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by abisson

Kobayashi will never drive for Ferrari in F1. Are you high?!

Never!

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by 08msicks

I was wondering when they were gonna come out with a faster version of the Brz cuz they are super popular now a days

In a few days. It will be presented @ NYIAS 2013.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by abisson

Kobayashi will never drive for Ferrari in F1. Are you high?!

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Never!

"Look he’s sliding towards the wall and STILL GOT HIS FOOT IN IT!”

“And that’s why the fans love Kamui Kobyashi”

"I have big respect of Kamui; he is like a fresh air in Formula One. He is like a kind of driver from the old era, like Regazzoni, like Ronnie Peterson… like the people that make the public dream".

And that's all about it... passion! Who better than Kobayashi and Ferrari to make you dream?! 1 + 1 = 2

[W///]

Originally Posted by abisson

Kobayashi will never drive for Ferrari in F1. Are you high?!

My exact same reaction

[abisson]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

And that's all about it... passion! Who better than Kobayashi and Ferrari to make you dream?! 1 + 1 = 2

I think you are honestly the biggest troll on this forum with your BRZ and KOB. KOB is rubbish and has never accomplished anything in F1. Why would the most prestigious F1 team give him a seat after him being in F1 and doing nothing?

Seriously, stop smoking.

[Red Bread]

I know. Arguing Kobi is like trying to argue that Bruce Jenner is the hot Kardashian.

[johanness]

Originally Posted by abisson

I think you are honestly the biggest troll on this forum with your BRZ and KOB. KOB is rubbish and has never accomplished anything in F1. Why would the most prestigious F1 team give him a seat after him being in F1 and doing nothing?

Seriously, stop smoking.

X1000!

Between the OP's terrible grammar, hard-on for this underpowered childs toy, and fantasy gay-obsession with KOB... I feel like puking every time I see this thread. He's 99.9% of the posters in his OWN thread. Nuff said

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by johanness

X1000!

Between the OP's terrible grammar, hard-on for this underpowered childs toy, and fantasy gay-obsession with KOB... I feel like puking every time I see this thread. He's 99.9% of the posters in his OWN thread. Nuff said

You've just missed a little detail... I own and I drive an 1M, so what does that tell about me?!

Anyway, it's not my grammar, not even my obsession or opinion... it's theirs, from Italy to Germany, no F1 journalist is indifferent to Kobayashi. Probably I should have quoted them as 'gay' opinions...

As for the 'underpowered childs toy'... well, I think the following post (not mine mind you) clearly shows that the difference between men and boys is NOT the price of their toys:

Originally Posted by track_warrior

I own the FR-S, its exactly the same car as the BRZ except it costs less and does not have nav or dual climate control as an option. I bought mine for the track, and its a sweet little track monster. I actually clock a faster lap time around my local track in my FR-S and all i have are suspension, brakes, and boltons. Its amazing what a 182 WHP car can do when it only weighs 2450 pounds (my car has light weight reduction). People forget that heavier cars with tons of power are still boats, compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up. Here are a couple of pics of my car as well as some videos and a review/build thread of the car when i bought it, go through all my build thread and you will see how i progressed and what parts worked for the car and which didnt. My car currently is sitting at the dealer awaiting a new engine since the old one blew up, not the cars fault but the shitty tuner that did work on my car, it went lean and kaboom.

Harris Hill Road Mazda Raceway Lap times in my current and ex cars:

E-92 M3 DCT Stock: 1:29.9
987 Porsche Boxster-S Stock: 1:31.3
Scion FR-S (weight reduction, suspension, brakes, boltons, R comps): 1:27.1
2010 Nissan GT-R (AP Rotors, pads, fluid, 590WHP): 1:26.1
2011 C63 AMG ( NT-05'S, brake mods, 420WHP): 1:29.5
Stock FR-S: 1:35.9

Build thread and review: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9004










Here is my video of me chasing and eventually passing a GT-3 @ Cota!

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I know. Arguing Kobi is like trying to argue that Bruce Jenner is the hot Kardashian.

LOL!

[GoingTooFast]

Another guy that should stop smoking... he owns a 'hot' 997 Carera S so how come is he comparing it to the 'bruce' Toyobaru?!

[joegtir]

do love this car

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by joegtir

do love this car

And you should because when we look around what do we see?!

On one hand we have the usual 'heavy pigs'... the Mercedes CLA AMG, the Audi S3/RS3 and last but not the least the future Bmw M2 which will be no different. And you know why?! Because they all will offer +300 hp.

Then, on the other hand we have the Toyobaru and the Alfa Romeo 4C both with less than 1300kg (curb weight), the 4C being much more radical.

So, the fundamental question is who cares about such expensive and 'heavy pig' cars if the whole idea is to have the best driver's car (= best FUN) which less money can buy and live with it on a daily basis or as a second car?!

One has to love the Toyobaru and... I shall add... also the 4C.

What haven't the germans realized yet that both the japaneses and the italians so clearly have seen?!

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

What haven't the germans realized yet that both the japaneses and the italians so clearly have seen?!

Frankly, because they're going after sales. People buy comfortable, practical cars, not things that are fun to drive. If that weren't true, Lotus and Mazda would have a lot more sales.

Hard edged cars are always more fun to drive and do great in magazine tests, but people don't generally buy them, and those that do buy them in the first year or two of production than the rest sit on dealer lots.

There's not a week that goes by that I don't seriously consider running over to my Subaru dealer over lunch and buying a BRZ, but I know that if I just wait for the convertible, STI and other versions to come out, the stupid price gouging on the base model will be replaced by discounts.

The other car that's coming out soon (hopefully) that very likely will be very competitive in this market will be the FD Miata and the Alfa Spider/Graduate. They'll almost certainly have better power to weight than the base BRZ and be priced comparatively while being smaller, much better supported for track/Spec events and won't have a fake back seat.