[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by IrvineTim

At thermal are you actually driving on the track, or do they have cones set up in the parking lot and your doing an autocross type event. If it is 200$ for a track day, thats a deal, but if it is autocross, thats boring.

Read the first bullet item at the end of my post that you quoted: "Lead-follow track lapping". Notice the second bullet item is "Autocross".

Edited to add: Specifically, at the free M Track Days that my wife and I attended at Thermal in September 2016, we did lead/follow laps in the M2 on the small track and lead/follow laps in an M3/M4 on the large track. They refer to the tracks geographically but I don't remember which one was North, East, South, or West. For the instructor hot laps they combined both tracks.

[ed4]

In for Monticello - Satuday morning

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by IrvineTim

At thermal are you actually driving on the track, or do they have cones set up in the parking lot and your doing an autocross type event. If it is 200$ for a track day, thats a deal, but if it is autocross, thats boring.

At thermal are you actually driving on the track, or do they have cones set up in the parking lot and your doing an autocross type event. If it is 200$ for a track day, thats a deal, but if it is autocross, thats boring.[/QUOTE]

Barely if even it's just to sample cars briefly and move along to next brief drill. I.e. skid pad wet or dry
Auto x
Drag race to stop boxes side by side
A hot lop lead follow ( brief ! ) w instructors
Sometimes food water etc

I worry about thermal vs Carson Porsche Exp now
W all the changes and moves by BMW as of late. They should open the performance centers to more people to win overall.

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by EL BAN

I dont think anyone is confusing it with an M school which is clearly more in depth hence the 1k-2k cost.

I have raced for years full track and lately AutoX. I see this as an opportunity to explore a Track I have never driven at before in cars that are not mine in prep to do full track days in my own M.

$250 I spend hanging out at a club an evening, throwing that at a track for half a day in M cars is well worth it.

Agree completely.

I might go all the way down to Thermal again for the full M School, but maybe not. (Yearly GGC BMWCCA HPDE at Laguna Seca is far more likely.)
And hopefully the $250 will scare off something-for-nothing cheapskates.

[FLOSS M]

Monticello on May 24 th 8 am

I did an Audi driving experience a few years back here and the track is amazing, should be fun !

[BMWILUVU]

To me, riding shotgun and drag racing does not count as track time. Can anyone who has done this please let me know how much actual track time there is?

[msan]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

To me, riding shotgun and drag racing does not count as track time. Can anyone who has done this please let me know how much actual track time there is?

Last year, the only track time was lead follow for 3 laps in an m3 and 3 laps in an m235i.

[braunthalf]

Just singed up for THE THERMAL CLUB

[dreamspeed]

Went to the free track day at Thermal in 2015 and it was awesome. Iirc we got 12-15 laps in the north track and 12-15 in the south track. Went relatively fast considering it was lead follow

Went again to the free track day in 2016 and it wasn't as good. More people per session and only got 5-6 laps per track. Also my groups was slow AF

2015 was invite only and 2016 was free for all sign up.

I expect this years to be at least as good as 2015 since it's 250 which means a lot less people.

[pruettfan]

Doing the afternoon session on Sep 29th at Thermal. It will be hot but I am an Arizonan so its all relative. Did the 2 day M School last year it was great. This will be a tiny taste of that. The lead follow on the high speed track on the M3/4 is a lot of fun.

[495evo]

Only 6 sessions left that are still open at Monticello.

[zumbido]

I got excited because the registration drop-downs are now showing openings for Monticello. But don't be fooled - when you try to submit it'll kick back saying it's full. Guess I missed my chance this year.

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by zumbido

I got excited because the registration drop-downs are now showing openings for Monticello. But don't be fooled - when you try to submit it'll kick back saying it's full. Guess I missed my chance this year.

A few bookable slots for Monticello opened up so you had better grab them quick.

[MG 228i]

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

Went to the free track day at Thermal in 2015 and it was awesome. Iirc we got 12-15 laps in the north track and 12-15 in the south track. Went relatively fast considering it was lead follow

Went again to the free track day in 2016 and it wasn't as good. More people per session and only got 5-6 laps per track. Also my groups was slow AF

2015 was invite only and 2016 was free for all sign up.

I expect this years to be at least as good as 2015 since it's 250 which means a lot less people.

Yes 2015 was awesome!
Only nice part about 2016 was being able to drive the M2.

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by MG 228i

Yes 2015 was awesome!
Only nice part about 2016 was being able to drive the M2.

How many people in the 2015 half-day session you attended?

[cayenne444]

Originally Posted by M3Fahrer

Booked Homestead 6/10 8AM. Hopefully they have a zcp in the M3 or M4. Looking to upgrade my current F80. I'll be even more interested in this event next year if the new M5 is out.

All M3's and M4's this year will be ZCP.

Originally Posted by IrvineTim

At thermal are you actually driving on the track, or do they have cones set up in the parking lot and your doing an autocross type event. If it is 200$ for a track day, thats a deal, but if it is autocross, thats boring.

You'll drive on the South Palm Circuit.

Originally Posted by msan

Last year, the only track time was lead follow for 3 laps in an m3 and 3 laps in an m235i.

M235i's were not available last year. I'm not sure what experience you did.

It will be about 6 laps in an M2 and 6 laps in an M3 ZCP. Registration this year asks about your skill level - which means people will be grouped based on that and hopefully put the slow guys with the slow guys and the fast guys with the fast guys.

[495evo]

All sessions are full at Monticello.

[cayenne444]

Originally Posted by 495evo

All sessions are full at Monticello.

There's a waitlist now, if you call the number you can get on it.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

This is a significantly cheaper way to experience driving on a track for the first time than a BMW CCA HPDE. There's no way that you can find another way to drive an M3/M4 on a track for the first time at this price.

Sorry, that's just not true.

Most BMW CCA 1-day DEs tin MidWest and NE are priced at $200-350/day, with the higher-end prices applying to the historic Lime Rock or Watkins Glen tracks. For a two day event, you would pay less per day.
The most expensive DEs that I am aware of are @COTA, and those run $945 for three (3) days.

At BMW CCA DE, you will get full day / 4 sessions on track, with an instructor next to you 100% of the time. The volume of information and feedback shared by having an instructor teaching you vs. lead-and-follow format of ///M Days is easily 10x greater.

$250 for 1/2 day with BMW NA (actually, more like ~45 minutes on track), vs. ~$250 with BMW CCA for full day of instruction - there is no comparison.
At all.

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

One of the primary advantages is that it is not your car! Not your tires, not your gas, not your brakes!

Agree here.
Most importantly - if you want to "test drive" multiple ///M-cars on track, this is a perfect arrangement.

However, if you want to learn to drive on track, there is no substitute for a real DE event. ///M Days are not it, at all.

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

A BMW CCA HPDE is usually two days, is much more expensive than $250 (my last weekend at Laguna Seca was $675

That's entirely based on your choice of tracks (BTW, Laguna DEs can be had for $250/day, $450/2 days).

But either way, DE format gets you 4 track sessions / day with an instructor vs. ~45 minutes of lead and follow with radio commentary during ///M Days.
No comparison.

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

That is not to say that I'm against BMW CCA HPDEs, on the contrary, I've done many of them over the last seven years, but this is the next step, if you find that you really do enjoy driving on a track.

Originally Posted by ASAP

Did this for free last year and it was an outstanding event... not sure I would do it again, especially for $250... that's pretty much HPDE pricing.

Therein lies the distinction - driving on track in an ///M Day train vs. learning how to properly drive at speed.
///M Days will get you the former (as well as free food and sales pitches), HPDEs (PCA, BMW CCA, etc) will teach you the latter.

As long as you sign-up with a clear understanding of the difference, it's all good. Both event formats have their merits, and will have their audience. As do ///M schools.
To each his own.

But I would not site ///M Days as in any way comparable to proper HP DEs.
The purpose, the format, and the intent behind the two events are entirely different: selling cars vs. learning how to drive them properly!

Originally Posted by Speed-NYC

After doing the autocross at the ultimate driver event at the MetLife stadium, I'm itching for more. I signed up for Monticello on Wednesday afternoon.

Check-out what local clubs have to offer:
www.njbmwcca.org
www.nybmwcca.org

a

[msan]

Sorry was M2 not M235i

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Sorry, that's just not true.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Fine, you want to call me a liar, then call me a liar.

No one is disputing your claim that you will learn to drive on a track at an HPDE.
No one is disputing your claim that you will get more instruction at an HPDE.
No one is disputing your claim that there is no comparison between M Track Days and an HPDE (although you're the one that seems to have fixated on this point, and you're the one that keeps offering up point-by-point comparisons, some of which aren't even apples to apples).

You claim the M Track Days are marketing events and they don't teach you anything. I agree, and that's how BMW thinks of them. But instruction is not the point of an M Track Day! Everyone I know, including some hard-core track junkies who, like me, do lots and lots of HPDEs, including some of the instructors at those HPDEs, think of them as just plain FUN!

You keep insisting over and over that you'll learn more at an HPDE. I completely agree with this! No argument there! I've done a few dozen HPDEs over the last 20 years in several different cars, and I'm a firm believer in HPDEs. But for someone who's never driven on a track before and just wants to know what it's like, for someone who doesn't want to drive their car on a track the first time, for someone who just wants to have FUN at an event (without worrying about crashing their car), then I still maintain that M Track Days (or a club sponsored Experience Event), is still the best bang for the buck to drive an M car on a track. Compare this to a Porsche Experience event (starts at $385 for 1.5 hrs. in a Boxster or Cayman) and M Track Days are dirt cheap.

I maintain, that no matter where you do an HPDE, it will be more expensive than the figures you quote, if you factor in the cost of the event, tech inspection, wear and tear on tires and brakes, gas, and track insurance (this can cost more than the cost of the HPDE!).

I still think that an M Track Day is the best first step if you've never driven on a track before.
If you like this experience, then sign up for an HPDE, preferably a BMW CCA HPDE and you'll learn a lot more about how to drive on a track.
If you really like this, then buy an old BMW, turn it into a dedicated track car, buy a trailer and a hauler, get really serious, and do every track event within a day's drive.
If you really, really, like this, then consider becoming an instructor or a club racer.

I"m tired of arguing the same points over and over with you, so let's just agree to disagree. Nothing you've said seems to be deterring people from signing up for these events. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but I'm done "discussing" this with you.

[MG 228i]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

How many people in the 2015 half-day session you attended?

I don't recall, but we did double the laps or more compared to 2016