[jmg]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

So you don't take advantage of the dealer charging, Nope. I charge for free at EVGo and ChargePoint stations that have a free charging plan through BMW it doesn't out accelerate a lowly mustang past a horse gallup thats not what I said. I said it will out accelerate it to 30/35. After that I can't say, I haven't raced any Mustangs in my i3, you don't mind taking advantage of my tax money or anyone else's spoken like a true victim. Read my post again, it won't handle like a 3, got it. it handles very good for what it's intended for

How about a situation like I just had, where hurricane Irma shut off the power for 6 days and I needed my car and had it to eat, work, etc? Sorry boss, can't work. I have an ev. Just gonna hang out at home with no lights, computer, or A.C. and eat cold spagettios. Probably wouldn't fly very well. Evacuate? Can't do it. Not enough range. Etc. Etc. Use your ICE. The i3 isn't my only car. I have 3 other ice cars.

Responses in bold.

[Fundguy1]

Agree to disagree.

[JorgenM]

ICE vs EV is not really interesting in this thread

Btw, this new i model will for sure get 350kW charging which is 7x faster than the i3 fast charging. I've charged my i3 away from home approx. 5 times in two years, and max 30 mins each time. The next i should be no problem on long trips (who doesn't need a 20 mins brake after 4-5 hours driving anyway)

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP

No new i designations make me think BMW isn't serious about their upcoming 12 electrics.

The i concept they just showed is I20. But we don't have a model name for it yet.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

The i concept they just showed is I20. But we don't have a model name for it yet.

The name has been in the press for about a few years now actually since the introduction of the i3 and i8. You'll know what it will be designated as.

This will be the taster for the iNext Crossover. But we will see i20 premiere at the IAA in two years from now.

[matbl]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The name has been in the press for about a few years now actually since the introduction of the i3 and i8. You'll know what it will be designated as.

This will be the taster for the iNext Crossover. But we will see i20 premiere at the IAA in two years from now.

Two years? Really? It was pretty clear in 2013 that electric is the way to go for the auto industry and besides the i3 launched in 2013, you wait another 6 years before bringing another one? Pathetic!

And what happened to the 3-series "0" ? Cancelled?

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by matbl

Two years? Really? It was pretty clear in 2013 that electric is the way to go for the auto industry and besides the i3 launched in 2013, you wait another 6 years before bringing another one? Pathetic!

And what happened to the 3-series "0" ? Cancelled?

Not pathetic. The BMWi brand had to be established. Remember BMWi is not just about the cars. It's a mobile lab which also offers innovative solutions designed to accommodate the cars.
In 2019 Again at the IAA, The Porsche Mission E arrives as well as the Mercedes-Benz EQ,Audi Helga and the BMW i Vision Dynamics concept as production model.

Of course in the meantime there is still the iPerformance vehicles coming especially the next X3 and 3er will be offered as will the next X5 and all new X7.
As well as updates for the BMW i8 and i3 and the all new i8 Roadster and i8S.
You might decry the lack of product but BMW are the foremost more premium manufacturer set to pass 100,000 units of EV/PHEV vehicles.

BMWi will utilise the next generation of Battery technology currently being developed which offers exceptional ability for vehicle packaging as well as weight. To give an example if you compare MINI E with MINI Electric? The MINI Electric is far more revolutionary. You are talking about how you can use a word processor on your smart phone now compared to when it was a bulky desktop.

[matbl]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Not pathetic. The BMWi brand had to be established. Remember BMWi is not just about the cars. It's a mobile lab which also offers innovative solutions designed to accommodate the cars.
In 2019 Again at the IAA, The Porsche Mission E arrives as well as the Mercedes-Benz EQ,Audi Helga and the BMW i Vision Dynamics concept as production model.

Of course in the meantime there is still the iPerformance vehicles coming especially the next X3 and 3er will be offered as will the next X5 and all new X7.
As well as updates for the BMW i8 and i3 and the all new i8 Roadster and i8S.
You might decry the lack of product but BMW are the foremost more premium manufacturer set to pass 100,000 units of EV/PHEV vehicles.

BMWi will utilise the next generation of Battery technology currently being developed which offers exceptional ability for vehicle packaging as well as weight. To give an example if you compare MINI E with MINI Electric? The MINI Electric is far more revolutionary. You are talking about how you can use a word processor on your smart phone now compared to when it was a bulky desktop.

Just think you're acting too slow. I don't think consumers want a mobile lab, they just want their normal car fully electrified.
That's why I think the i sub brand is the wrong way to go, just bring electric versions of the standard lineup.

Also, product lifecycles go down in almost all types of consumer goods, incl. cars, even if cars are lagging other products. You just can't go on with 6 year cycles much longer, they need to shorten to ~3 years within a decade. Or you will be overtaken by newcomers. Just look at the ones ruling the mobile phone industry ~20 years ago, where are they now?

As a nice irony, it actually says it pretty well at the start of your image there.
"BMW is slowing it down." (Disclaimer, my german is a little bit rusty).

PHEV is just a stepping stone to full EV's. And while good, you shouldn't really add them together when counting.
Also, would have loved my G31 as PHEV, but isn't offered by BMW.

Progress in battery technology is good. Are you also making sure they can be charged quickly while traveling long range? I.e. road trips...

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by matbl

That's why I think the i sub brand is the wrong way to go, just bring electric versions of the standard lineup.

They are doing both.

Some of you folks in Scandinavia seem to be rather influenced by the movement in your region toward EV adoption and lack a global perspective. The rest of the world is not moving to a pure electric future at the rate some of your countries are. BMW is taking a measured approach just as any other automaker is. In fact, as SCOTT mentions, by the numbers, BMW is at the forefront.

I do agree that BMW's message is a bit confounding at the moment, especially given the recent comments from officials that the electric Gxx series vehicles will fall under the i brand. But we'll see in time what this means. The electric 3 and X3 are due in the next couple years.

[Fundguy1]

From my perspective ev Is a slingshot at best to even get a small percentage of car building within the next 20 Yrs. We will see.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Some of you folks in Scandinavia seem to be rather influenced by the movement in your region toward EV adoption

Isn't it ironic that the early adopters look to be from one of the areas of the world with the cleanest air and which will experience the shortest average range and potential hazards when running empty ( due to long cold winters )? I.e. if Scandinavia can do it...

[JorgenM]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

But we will see i20 premiere at the IAA in two years from now.

Are you saying we will see the i Vision Dynamics production version already in 2019? And market launch in 2020 then?

Or is the "i20" another vehicle..

[matbl]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

They are doing both.

Some of you folks in Scandinavia seem to be rather influenced by the movement in your region toward EV adoption and lack a global perspective. The rest of the world is not moving to a pure electric future at the rate some of your countries are. BMW is taking a measured approach just as any other automaker is. In fact, as SCOTT mentions, by the numbers, BMW is at the forefront.

I do agree that BMW's message is a bit confounding at the moment, especially given the recent comments from officials that the electric Gxx series vehicles will fall under the i brand. But we'll see in time what this means. The electric 3 and X3 are due in the next couple years.

If it were only scandinavia it would be a different story. But the fact is that the world's biggest car market, china, is moving even faster. Also, most parts of western europe incl. BMW's home market are moving in that direction too.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by matbl

If it were only scandinavia it would be a different story. But the fact is that the world's biggest car market, china, is moving even faster. Also, most parts of western europe incl. BMW's home market are moving in that direction too.

China yes because they have electricity, not oil, and a captive population. Is bmw setting up huge ev contracts with China? I hope so. Have them make a cheapie ev for the Chinese like that hideous fwd pos they only sell there. The rest of Europe? Yes, due to socialism. That's changing slowly finally.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by matbl

If it were only scandinavia it would be a different story. But the fact is that the world's biggest car market, china, is moving even faster. Also, most parts of western europe incl. BMW's home market are moving in that direction too.

I am talking about per capita which is the figure that would drive perception.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elec...use_by_country

The Netherlands and Norway are way out in front of anyone else. Sweden is in the mix. Yes, the US, China, Japan, and some European countries are there too, and the former three even lead in total sales. But on a market share basis, only in Scandinavia could EVs start to be considered common and be encountered on a regular basis.

Sure, these numbers will increase, but the automakers, including BMW, are obviously aware hence their plans to build more EVs. If anything, Tesla will be the one hanging on, at least for the next decade and a half, because they offer no PHEVs or other hybrids and never will. The transition to a pure EV world will go through a long interim period of electrified vehicle powertrains of various types, just as we are seeing today. The traditional automakers can flex powertrains as necessary to meet demand, and this type of strategy will dominate by the end of the 2020s. Testa, Lucid, and the other startups will have to survive on pure EV sales alone, or perhaps become suppliers to the big players. A vehicle with a REx, just for example, even if the ICE is only necessary 10% of the time, will be a lot easier a sell than an EV until range anxiety is no longer a thing.

So, from the looks of things, BMW has the right idea. The products are ramping up for next decade when the EV/electrified push takes off in high gear. I personally think this is going to be fun to watch. An historic period in the auto industry for sure.

[Fundguy1]

Why do people call lack of range, range anxiety? I'm not worried I may run out of range, I know I won't be able to do the range necessary to do my job. Then say you increase range to a reasonable 600 miles. What happens when, not if, when you run out on the side of the road 10 miles from an electrical outlet.

Lack of range is a real issue, not something that is not real but people worry about, which is range anxiety.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Then say you increase range to a reasonable 600 miles. What happens when, not if, when you run out on the side of the road 10 miles from an electrical outlet.

Right, range anxiety has three components (at least):

- Lack of range on a single charge
- Lack of ability to acquire a charge in reasonable time
- Lack of ability to acquire a charge at all

For someone with your requirements, an EV probably won't be practical until the latter issues are addressed. For others, improving the first may quell their fears. The former is a function of battery technology (or some replacement technology). The latter is a function of infrastructure. And the middle one is really a function of both.

PHEVs and, to a degree, range extenders solve all of these problems today, while still making big strides in tailpipe emissions. And that's why those types of vehicles will be popular in the short term.

If you think about traditional ICE vehicles, we trust them neither because they can go forever without needing fuel, nor because they can be refueled instantly and absolutely anywhere. We trust them because they offer a reasonable compromise between those two ideals.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Right, range anxiety has three components (at least):

- Lack of range on a single charge
- Lack of ability to acquire a charge in reasonable time
- Lack of ability to acquire a charge at all

For someone with your requirements, an EV probably won't be practical until the latter issues are addressed. For others, improving the first may quell their fears. The former is a function of battery technology (or some replacement technology). The latter is a function of infrastructure. And the middle one is really a function of both.

PHEVs and, to a degree, range extenders solve all of these problems today, while still making big strides in tailpipe emissions. And that's why those types of vehicles will be popular in the short term.

If you think about traditional ICE vehicles, we trust them neither because they can go forever without needing fuel, nor because they can be refueled instantly and absolutely anywhere. We trust them because they offer a reasonable compromise between those two ideals.

If that's the definition of range anxiety, then they need a different term. Anxiety is worrying about something. It isn't something that necessarily will happen. This is. It's a dysfunction. Call it range inadequacy. As for big strides in tailpipe emissions, thats 100% bs as far as im concerned. Manmade climate change is a proven myth. I'm the guy with the bumper sticker over his full size SUV tailpipe that says I'm changing the environment ask me how.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

If that's the definition of range anxiety, then they need a different term.

In any case, what's important is that addressing the issues I mention will allow for the EV to replace the traditional ICE vehicle. Language and precise mechanics of the situation aside, your case is simply one that is at the extreme where the failure rate of the technology is 100%. But despite that certainty, your type of use case can nevertheless be addressed when the underlying issues at play are addressed.

As for big strides in tailpipe emissions, thats 100% bs as far as im concerned. Manmade climate change is a proven myth. I'm the guy with the bumper sticker over his full size SUV tailpipe that says I'm changing the environment ask me how.

Right, I am aware of your position. I think we all are by now.

In the end it won't matter because this is happening either way. As I have said before, forget emissions and climate change for a moment. Also forget the rare earth metals required for batteries and harmful processes used to mine them. In the end, it's just noise that distracts you from what is really going on.

That is, the auto industry stands to benefit from an EV future because they are so much more efficient and mechanically simpler than ICE vehicles. If you are building cars, you want to be building EVs. You only built ICE for the last 100+ years because that's all that could be made to work to the satisfaction of your customers while using the available technology at hand. It's why we are seeing EV startups now. You can build an EV without any clue about complex machines like combustion engines and automatic transmissions. Even differentials won't be necessary once hub motors are viable. And packaging an EV's components is trivial compared to packaging all of that oily stuff, plus the fuel tank, plus other supporting equipment.

So it's going happen because there's more money to be made if it happens than if it doesn't. Are there those who stand to lose money in the process? Sure, and we know exactly who. But, ultimately, they will survive because energy is energy, and they have already begun to diversify (have been for some time).

[Fundguy1]

We will see. I still don't like the language. Call it what it is. Range inadequacy. Then people can make an educated decision if it's right for them.

[mkoesel]

Let's try to keep this thread to discussion about the I20 EV timeline and fitness for the market, and discuss politics in the proper forum.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

We will see. I still don't like the language. Call it what it is. Range inadequacy. Then people can make an educated decision if it's right for them.

People are already making educated decisions for what's right for them. Then there are those who think what's right for them is right for everyone else. Here in CA, the EV infrastructure is growing and it's working and the advantages to the consumer are real and tangible. Given how big the CA market is, and the almost industry wide embrace of EV and Hybrid technology, all I see is progress. Keep complaining about range, and the market will find ways to increase range to entice you to spend a dollar. Complain about charging time, weight, battery disposal, do all of that and you will see improvements. That's how the market works. What's the alternative? Stop trying?