01-12-2012, 01:14 PM | #111 | |
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I consider myself a loyal BMW fan! not customer. If something of similar performance and lower price comes along I will buy it (got my C63 for $9K less than what BMW would sell me a M3 for back in 2009, Mercedes was feeling the economic pinch and had blowout sales, $8K manufacturer incentive, plus dealers discount which was another $4K). I went back to BMW for our X3 though as its just an amazing car at a decent price, nothing out there was even close for the price. Hopefully I will be back in an M3 in a couple years, but most of you on these forums probably feel I am a traitor for buying the C63 and would prefer I don't buy the next M3, |
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01-12-2012, 01:15 PM | #112 |
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if they are introducing more styles of each model/series their is more market for all kinds of people wanting to buy more cars. If more cars have the M madge they are hoping to sell even more cars. if they sell more cars with more efficient engines, it will increase their MPG avg. and allow them to keep and maintain V8s and V10s with their M performance cars..MOOreee POWEERRr with out having to slam in turbos = happier car enthusiasts!
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01-12-2012, 01:19 PM | #113 |
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The only good that I can see coming from this is the real M models will be more focused than they currently are, similar to how Ferrari only had the F430, but now they made the California as the softer, cheaper GT car which allowed the 458 to be a more focused supercar.
Then again, it should be called an iS model because normal people are stupid and M-Sport is also available. I can't wait until some girl drives a F30 328i M-Sport or "M335iS" to school and tries to say it's an M3 because of the badges. People already ask if my brother's 135i is a 1M because it has the ///M shifter and steering wheel as standard. Why can't BMW make the same equipment sans the badge? Hell, I even think my car has WAY too many badges. |
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01-12-2012, 01:23 PM | #114 | |
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01-12-2012, 01:26 PM | #115 | |
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01-12-2012, 01:29 PM | #116 |
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Since when does an M car result in "forgoing everyday usability." M cars are know for versatility and it's part of their current marketing. BS....
Last edited by erio; 01-12-2012 at 01:41 PM.. |
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01-12-2012, 01:36 PM | #117 | |
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Go (all the way) M or go home. |
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01-12-2012, 01:42 PM | #118 | |
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Understanding CAFE standards and understanding the volumes that the M brand sells negates this whole argument. What I mean is, take the M5+M6 for example (e60/e63). On an annual basis, even in the best years, M did not sell more than 4,000-5,000 units of these lines. Based on roughly 1million cars sold per year by the BMW group, that equates to 0.004% to 0.005% of total annual sales. Does anyone think that a car line that makes up this small fraction of total sales has any real impact on CAFE standards? The answer is NO, and just look to Porsche for the proof. They sell less cars overall but can offer every line with a turbo or an NA based engine. Bottom line is BMW killed M tradition for the Green Movement which is very prevalent in Europe in particular nowadays. Reading any of the real world use stories about the new F10 M5 for ex, and the users say they get marginally more efficiency with the new FI based engine vs the NA when driven the same way. So if they are not getting significant mpgs, then why do it? I will suggest that its all about economics and not about CAFÉ standards or regulations at all. By switching the new Ms to FI and aligning them with the normal line engines, they are able to save significant R&D and share components. This is marketing genius really, because now they can still charge the premium that the S85 commanded because it was a truly purpose built engine, while saving the untold millions on R&D by starting off with the base engine and modifying it for the future M cars. This is what no one speaks about and this is where tradition was destroyed, imo it has nothing to do with regulation because the numbers and the volumes of these quite limited run cars cannot have any appreciable impact on the overall efficiency of BMW visavie CAFÉ. And it absolutely changed the focus of what an M is/ was. When you had a high revving NA engine, you had a very different driving experience than a torque heavy twin turbo based engine. This FI type of engine allows anyone to drive an M like a race car driver without any real skills as to how to get the most out of the engine. Its an AMG with an M badge, imho, because you just mash and go. That is NOT the case with the S85 or any previous M series car. In the S85 and the traditional M cars, you actually had to know how to drive and what gear to be in and where in the power range to be to get the most out of the car. That is what I love about the S85 and why I cannot buy an FI based M at this point. All we hear is that the new F10 M5 is so amazing because it has so much effortless power everywhere in the band. That is not an M from a tradition sense, so as you noted above that the focus of M has not changed because of FI, Id counter that the entire history has been destroyed by FI as to what it meant to drive an M. M is just for marketing, its performance and design oriented, but its just marketing, and the sales keep increasing so they’ll only continue this trend in the future, like with todays announcement.
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01-12-2012, 01:49 PM | #120 | |
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01-12-2012, 01:50 PM | #121 |
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Watering down of the 'M' brand. It was how I felt when I owned a 'proper' Golf GTI (mk5) and then the crappy Polo with 10 year old engine got the 'GTI' badge too. Ok, a little different, but still similar?! I'd like to not see an 'M' anywhere unless it's a 'proper' M car. Otherwise it's a little like those fools slapping 'M' lettering on the back of their model designation because it has the M sport pack! On BMW's part, it all comes down to marketing (it'll work) but the inevitable dilution will follow.
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01-12-2012, 01:55 PM | #122 | |
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01-12-2012, 02:10 PM | #124 | |
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01-12-2012, 02:11 PM | #125 | |
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01-12-2012, 02:15 PM | #126 |
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As far as I know the Audi RS range isn't watered down by the S range although the badges are similar. The latter is just given more credit (and of course more sales potential).
Of course an S is just an ersatz of a radical RS, and an ///M335i will be just an ///M3 ersatz, but I don't doubt that the performance and handling (and esthetic) tweaks will be enough to clearly differentiate this new intermediary category, as well from the pure ///M range as from the basic stock models. |
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01-12-2012, 02:16 PM | #127 |
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01-12-2012, 02:25 PM | #128 | ||
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01-12-2012, 02:37 PM | #130 |
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A while back, BMW presented a F20 1 Series show-car with ///M Performance esthetic accessories, including black striping on hood and hatch, just like like on the recently leaked ///M335i (picture above). But that F20 was just a 120d...
Will these purely esthetic ///M Performance accessories (stickers, alcantara wheel, etc.) also be available on regular F10, F20, F30... like some kind of ///M+ Package, or will they henceforth only be offered on the distinct ///M Performance range (i.e. ///M135, ///M335i, ///M550d...)? If you can get a 116i looking like an ///M135i, isn't that watering down the ///M Performance range itself? Last edited by advantage20; 01-12-2012 at 02:50 PM.. |
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01-12-2012, 02:37 PM | #131 | |
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Link Great business sense by BMW, I can't wait to see these models, especially the diesel x-drive 5 series. I don't see the reason to get up in arms about the names or dilution, they will still be wonderful cars to drive and enjoy. |
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01-12-2012, 02:48 PM | #132 | |
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Will the new "M Performance" line of vehicles use some of those exact same parts straight from the factory? Maybe. In fact, I'd say probably. Will the M Performance vehicles also use some of their own bespoken parts? I'd say that's a good bet as well, but certainly not nearly as many as a "proper" M vehicle like an M3 or M5 does. |
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