[P1]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

I am not implying that there is something wrong with being educated, you added that claim. What I am saying is that getting an education by means of going to college is absolutely not the correct option for everyone. Why are you shocked? Do you find it hard to believe that some people have developed a plan for their future success that does not involve college?

Make sure you're arguing the correct point. This thread is titled "College: Is it worth it?" not "Education: Is it worth it?" You can actually be an educated individual without college *gasp*



Once again, there can be multiple things right and wrong with getting an education. For example, things that can go wrong are: one may study a major (massage therapy) at a college that does not yield them a career that is lucrative enough to pay back their student loans. This phenomenon is usually called "For-Profit Institutions". See below...



Devry, Univ. of Phoenix, Kaplan Univ, UEI, UTI, ICDC, 4-D College, etc... I can keep going but there are a plethora of colleges where your statement crash and burns into false land. Paying $30k for an associates degree from these degree factories to have a 'professor' make you watch a video 90% of the semester is not exactly valuable in my eyes.

Sure, there are different forms of education. If you're able to get educated at West Point, Harvard or Stanford: amazing! I tip my hat. If you can get educated at a public university, well done to you. If you can get educated at a junior college, love it. If you want to go to night school, nice one. If you think you're going to get there by taking online courses, get it. Is it worth it? That's up to you. Remember: I come from a country where college is free. You just need to pay for books, foods, your dorm, etc. I understand we're discussing college form an American perspective. Nonetheless, my point still stands: my degree has nothing to do with my current career. But that's not the point: I would have NEVER gotten this job unless I would have graduated with at least a bachelor's degree. Do they specify exactly what I should have studied in college? Nope. They look at my professional track record for that.

You can argue that I studied the "wrong" field. My subsequent internships in college were in this "wrong" field also. Do I think it was not worth it because of this? Absolutely not. And for the record, I went to an American university.

In the end, you can argue this point to death. It's like the thread that talked about if having kids are worth it. Or if there is a point to getting married.

I think it's worth it, you don't. All good

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by P1et

Sure, there are different forms of education. If you're able to get educated at West Point, Harvard or Stanford: amazing! I tip my hat. If you can get educated at a public university, well done to you. If you can get educated at a junior college, love it. If you want to go to night school, nice one. If you think you're going to get there by taking online courses, get it. Is it worth it? That's up to you. Remember: I come from a country where college is free. You just need to pay for books, foods, your dorm, etc. I understand we're discussing college form an American perspective. Nonetheless, my point still stands: my degree has nothing to do with my current career. But that's not the point: I would have NEVER gotten this job unless I would have graduated with at least a bachelor's degree. Do they specify exactly what I should have studied in college? Nope. They look at my professional track record for that.

You can argue that I studied the "wrong" field. My subsequent internships in college were in this "wrong" field also. Do I think it was not worth it because of this? Absolutely not. And for the record, I went to an American university.

In the end, you can argue this point to death. It's like the thread that talked about if having kids are worth it. Or if there is a point to getting married.

I think it's worth it, you don't. All good

Fair statement and that's what this thread is about.

I have to disgaree that the point cannot be argued to death (to an extent) because we all know the times are changing. Ask me 15 years ago if college is worth it and I'd have some corny yet confident response like "you betta believe it!"

It's a little more grey now. Once again, I say this in a "all things considered" approach. (e.g. cost, ROI, experience, moral values, networking, social skills etc...)

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by schoy

No one has said that formal education is always a good idea.

Actually, P1et was essentially saying just that, starting back in post #60. "There is never anything wrong with getting an education". Using absolutes like "never" can often get you into trouble. Unless you qualify it with "certain types of formal education are always a good idea", then a statement like that is dangerous. It implies that any formal education is always better than none. Sorry, but I couldnt disagree more.

For example, if you are dirt poor, and you go deep into debt to get a degree in Archaeology cause you love dinosaurs, but then cant find a job other than Starbucks, well, there IS something wrong with that.

You should have found a practical trade or skill, and use that money to finance your vacation trips to significant dig sites, compared to the holding that piece of paper, and having huge debt for the next 20 years, so you cant afford to go visit those places. Ironically, the pragmatic minded electrician who treats his passion like the HOBBY that it is, will be be able to afford to take such trips and indulge his passion for dinosaur bones in a more tangible way than the deeply indebted college grad will.

Obviously, people who come from money are lucky because they dont have to distinguish between a vocation and a hobby when committing years of their prime earning years to an education. (unless you are from a place with free university, which may not be the case for the OP asking the question).

If you gotta pay your own way, then you do need to consider that.

If you can afford to play in the top portion of this Venn diagram, lucky for you.
If you can't afford it, then pretending you can, may be an expensive mistake.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Yes. So did Paul A, and Mark Z.
Michael D dropped out of Texas.

Correct. And this argument is moot. Not only were they actually smart enough to get into the schools they did, but their opportunity cost of staying in college was so high that it would have been foolish not to drop out.

Only someone who didn't graduate from college would use these as examples to not attend college...

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by FC4

Correct. And this argument is moot. Not only were they actually smart enough to get into the schools they did, but their opportunity cost of staying in college was so high that it would have been foolish not to drop out.

Only someone who didn't graduate from college would use these as examples to not attend college...

I am not arguing, I was answering the original question stated below.

Originally Posted by 2011CrazE89 View Post
Didn't Bill Gates drop out of Harvard to start Microsoft?

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Nice diagram. I looked at it for quite a bit.

[firstkill]

Im not sure why everyone is fixated in going to "college" as a way to make money.

college
1. experience in life, never again will I be able to do "stupid" stuff and have that sort of fun.
2. the experience of being away from home with minimal responsibilities.
3. some times its nice to learn something to make you a "more educated" person.

was it all worth it and the debt? YES, I would pay it again in a heart beat.

If any doctor is making less than $180,000 in southern California, then the "company" they work for is taking advantage of them, or they don't want to work much.

the notion of a doctor wanting to become nurse, is only said in jest, due to the lack of responsibilities... if doctor really wanted to become a nurse, its easy for them to change.

fk

[MrPrena]

Seems like most of people I know/knew had lots of fun during their undergrad years. It is totally opposite for me. I had to work hard and finish school faster to pay less tuition. I just wish I was financially well of when I was 18+. Sleep 4-5hr/day sucks!

However, I did play hard after I got a job after school for few years.
Party/Play hard did not last long. I went to school while working afterwards.

Originally Posted by firstkill

Im not sure why everyone is fixated in going to "college" as a way to make money.

college
1. experience in life, never again will I be able to do "stupid" stuff and have that sort of fun.
2. the experience of being away from home with minimal responsibilities.
3. some times its nice to learn something to make you a "more educated" person.

was it all worth it and the debt? YES, I would pay it again in a heart beat.

If any doctor is making less than $180,000 in southern California, then the "company" they work for is taking advantage of them, or they don't want to work much.

the notion of a doctor wanting to become nurse, is only said in jest, due to the lack of responsibilities... if doctor really wanted to become a nurse, its easy for them to change.

fk

[schoy]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Actually, P1et was essentially saying just that, starting back in post #60. "There is never anything wrong with getting an education". Using absolutes like "never" can often get you into trouble. Unless you qualify it with "certain types of formal education are always a good idea", then a statement like that is dangerous. It implies that any formal education is always better than none. Sorry, but I couldnt disagree more.

Perhaps I'll just let P1et respond, but when I read his post, I didn't assume he meant "formal" education. The way I read it, he was saying that there is never anything wrong with getting an education, i.e. being educated in whatever form that education may take.

[schoy]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

This statement almost made my brain explode. I'm gonna get a cup of coffee before I write a dissertation about how much I disagree with this claim...

Knock yourself out. I'd be interested to read what you have to say. Please just don't misinterpret my literal words, as there may be secondary, tertiary, etc. reasons for going to college, but I still stand by my assertion that the primary reason one should go to college is to get that degree. It is the only thing (at least that I can think of) that you cannot get without going to college. Now whether that degree has any value ... again, that depends.

[P1]

Originally Posted by schoy

Perhaps I'll just let P1et respond, but when I read his post, I didn't assume he meant "formal" education. The way I read it, he was saying that there is never anything wrong with getting an education, i.e. being educated in whatever form that education may take.

You are 100% correct schoy... That is exactly what I was saying.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by schoy

Now whether that degree has any value ... again, that depends.

this.......

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by 2011CrazE89

Didn't Bill Gates drop out of Harvard to start Microsoft?

LOL see below

Originally Posted by FC4

Correct. And this argument is moot. Not only were they actually smart enough to get into the schools they did, but their opportunity cost of staying in college was so high that it would have been foolish not to drop out.

Only someone who didn't graduate from college would use these as examples to not attend college...

Yes

Now I see both sides of the table... I did go to college but I also had to make it work for me to end up where I am today... PS - It was one of the useful majors.

[P1]

Originally Posted by schoy

Knock yourself out. I'd be interested to read what you have to say. Please just don't misinterpret my literal words, as there may be secondary, tertiary, etc. reasons for going to college, but I still stand by my assertion that the primary reason one should go to college is to get that degree. It is the only thing (at least that I can think of) that you cannot get without going to college. Now whether that degree has any value ... again, that depends.

Remember that one can choose to go to college (or seek other forms for higher education) not necessarily for eventual monetary benefit, but for self-fulfillment. There are quite a few things I'd like to eventually be educated on, and they will not result in something I could monetarily gain from. Yet it will result in a certain level of satisfaction. As an example, learning about the arts could enable me to express myself creatively, yet it would do nothing for me in my professional career.

[PSUSMU]

I wouldn't give up my college years for anything..

[2011CrazE89]

I put in my four years at the School of Visual Arts in NYC. At the time my father owned his own Advertising and Graphic Design business and my goal (and his) was to eventually run the business.

Well life threw a curve ball at me. And me and my father went our separate ways. After graduating I ended up landing a job at a local Advertising Agency. It was a small staff. Maybe 20 or so. I always had an interest in working with numbers so the owner would have me processing his payroll, accounts receivable, accounts payable, etc. I found myself enjoying my position and spent very little time actually advertising. Long story short: I’m a Staff Accountant. And have been for 20 years. Not what I studied, but that’s what life handed me. Had I known then that I was going to end up in finance I would have never spent the time and $$ studying a field that I would play no role in. Not getting my degree in finance has held me back salary wise but who knew I would end up in this field?! Can't predict "life"

[deeborn]

Originally Posted by 2011CrazE89

Didn't Bill Gates drop out of Harvard to start Microsoft?

LOL. For that one sucess story, there is probably a million failures.

Get a degree, before you end up realizing down the line that you're unemployable, and have to resort to eating pet food.

[2011CrazE89]

Originally Posted by deeborn

LOL. For that one sucess story, there is probably a million failures.

Get a degree, before you end up realizing down the line that you're unemployable, and have to resort to eating pet food.

There are other options

http://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=993629

[deeborn]

Originally Posted by 2011CrazE89

There are other options

http://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=993629

Sure, there is always that.

Speaking of options, a degree offers them. No matter what people personally feel about college, the educational system or the state of the union.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by P1et

Sure, there are different forms of education. If you're able to get educated at West Point, Harvard or Stanford: amazing! I tip my hat. If you can get educated at a public university, well done to you. If you can get educated at a junior college, love it. If you want to go to night school, nice one. If you think you're going to get there by taking online courses, get it. Is it worth it? That's up to you. Remember: I come from a country where college is free. You just need to pay for books, foods, your dorm, etc. I understand we're discussing college form an American perspective. Nonetheless, my point still stands: my degree has nothing to do with my current career. But that's not the point: I would have NEVER gotten this job unless I would have graduated with at least a bachelor's degree. Do they specify exactly what I should have studied in college? Nope. They look at my professional track record for that.

You can argue that I studied the "wrong" field. My subsequent internships in college were in this "wrong" field also. Do I think it was not worth it because of this? Absolutely not. And for the record, I went to an American university.

In the end, you can argue this point to death. It's like the thread that talked about if having kids are worth it. Or if there is a point to getting married.

I think it's worth it, you don't. All good

Annapolis > West Point.

[Seminole]

Originally Posted by Litos

this.......

Go make the poll for the photo contents you slacker.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by schoy

Knock yourself out. I'd be interested to read what you have to say. Please just don't misinterpret my literal words, as there may be secondary, tertiary, etc. reasons for going to college, but I still stand by my assertion that the primary reason one should go to college is to get that degree. It is the only thing (at least that I can think of) that you cannot get without going to college. Now whether that degree has any value ... again, that depends.

P1et pretty much captured what I would say in short.

I've gone back to college (post-grad) to take music business courses to enhance my knowledge in music licensing, publishing, royalties, etc... and had absolutely no intent of getting a degree. There happened to be about 20 other students with the same goal, no degree.

Originally Posted by P1et

Remember that one can choose to go to college (or seek other forms for higher education) not necessarily for eventual monetary benefit, but for self-fulfillment. There are quite a few things I'd like to eventually be educated on, and they will not result in something I could monetarily gain from. Yet it will result in a certain level of satisfaction. As an example, learning about the arts could enable me to express myself creatively, yet it would do nothing for me in my professional career.