[Robo Squirrel]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

The stupid ones like the SUV and the strange (even in non SRT form) square hatchback crossover thing? The body add-ons are some of the worst executed and looking I've ever seen. But hey. That's just my opinion.

those cars are busted to begin with, therefore they must have must have busted aero parts to match the rest of the car. at least they make the cars they are on look just a little better. the guys who did the srt versions of those cars didnt really have much to work with, lol

Originally Posted by SoreHead

I didn't really. I just wanted to give you 5 or 6 days work

haha, it wouldnt take me that long, there isnt much to talk about

[wiggyx]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

Not in Europe.
We had the Celica with it from the start in the GT-S model as it's not the 1ZZ used by Lotus. It's the 2ZZ with the base 180bhp. They never actually used the 1ZZ in the Lotus cars.

No, the 7th gen was the first Celica to get the 1ZZ/2ZZ. That model started in 2000. The Corolla got it in '98. And the 1ZZ was used in the Elise S.

[Robo Squirrel]

Round 3: JDM engine code battle! FIGHT

[footie]

I'm not anti American, in fact that is lots about America and American products that I really do like. But I don't think that they are that great when it comes to making sportscars.

Face it, most American when they can afford it don't think of buying American when it comes to cars, it's usually German, be it BMW, Mercedes, Porsche or Audi and if the car is a sportscar it's Porsche, Ferrari or Lamborghini. Very few millionaire have a Viper or Vette in their garage unless they also own one of the above European brands and they do it only to be patirotic which is something the rest of the world should be.

Disliking almost all American sportscars doesn't make make me a hater, I just don't understand why they make them the way they do, the suspension is generally overly firm, the shifter and clutch excessively heavy, same for the steering. It's almost as if they think if it's anything less than that it's a woman's car and too femine for REAL men to drive. Which brings us back to the finesse argument.

[wiggyx]

Originally Posted by footie

I'm not anti American, in fact that is lots about America and American products that I really do like. But I don't think that they are that great when it comes to making sportscars.

Face it, most American when they can afford it don't think of buying American when it comes to cars, it's usually German, be it BMW, Mercedes, Porsche or Audi and if the car is a sportscar it's Porsche, Ferrari or Lamborghini. Very few millionaire have a Viper or Vette in their garage unless they also own one of the above European brands and they do it only to be patirotic which is something the rest of the world should be.

Disliking almost all American sportscars doesn't make make me a hater, I just don't understand why they make them the way they do, the suspension is generally overly firm, the shifter and clutch excessively heavy, same for the steering. It's almost as if they think if it's anything less than that it's a woman's car and too femine for REAL men to drive. Which brings us back to the finesse argument.

You make too many assumptions to even be worth arguing with. To make a statement that's as ludicrous as that you need to back it up with some sort empirical data, which you can't, because you just made it up based on your own opinions, not facts.

[shagoki]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

The stupid ones like the SUV and the strange (even in non SRT form) square hatchback crossover thing? The body add-ons are some of the worst executed and looking I've ever seen. But hey. That's just my opinion.

Caliber? You can't compare any other SRT to either the Caliber or the Jeep as they both were failures unlike most SRT models. Although I think the interior of the Caliber SRT is very nice even though the outside is kind of odd.

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by wiggyx

No, the 7th gen was the first Celica to get the 1ZZ/2ZZ. That model started in 2000. The Corolla got it in '98. And the 1ZZ was used in the Elise S.

Maybe over here. The Elise S in the Europe was fitted with a K-Series engine. Never the 1ZZ. They had to use all Toyota engines to get them approved for US sale.

Sorry. I should say that they have started using the 1ZZ since the K-Series was dumped but not until after 2005

[footie]

Originally Posted by wiggyx

You make too many assumptions to even be worth arguing with. To make a statement that's as ludicrous as that you need to back it up with some sort empirical data, which you can't, because you just made it up based on your own opinions, not facts.

Have you figures and data to prove me wrong?

I'm guessing you can't. If you seriously believe that anyone looks at the ACR in the same mind set as they would with either a Ferrari, Porsche or Lamborghini then all your cylinders aren't firing.

You might feel my comments are unrealistic but the reality is that as a desireable sportscar the ACR coming pretty low on anyone's list. Unless they have already got their Porsches or Ferraris and want something home grown.

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by footie

I'm guessing you can't. If you seriously believe that anyone looks at the ACR in the same mind set as they would with either a Ferrari, Porsche or Lamborghini then all your cylinders aren't firing.

Not wanting to get into another argument I would have to say that that statement is true. I wouldn't even consider a Viper as competition to any of the marques listed. You can get them as fast or even faster but those are all infinitely more desirable, I would guess, to almost everyone on here.

Considering the Viper is probably close to half the price of any of them it's not surprising either. Different market I think. To be honest I think I'd take a Z06 or ZR1 before a Viper anyway but that's just me

[wiggyx]

Originally Posted by footie

Have you figures and data to prove me wrong?

I'm guessing you can't. If you seriously believe that anyone looks at the ACR in the same mind set as they would with either a Ferrari, Porsche or Lamborghini then all your cylinders aren't firing.

You might feel my comments are unrealistic but the reality is that as a desireable sportscar the ACR coming pretty low on anyone's list. Unless they have already got their Porsches or Ferraris and want something home grown.

You are an idiot. I'm not making any outlandish claims, you are. You bear the burden of proof when doing so. Here, let me play your game. 7 out of 10 Lambo owners regret having bought the Lambo and not a Viper. 9 out of 10 Ferrari owners feel same. And 10 out of 10 Jaguar owners have an IQ less than 80. Your twisted logic rivals that of my 4 year old brother-in-law.

Just in case you aren't aware, I made those numbers up, just like you did about "most millionaires".

[Cyclenirvana]

Originally Posted by Robo Squirrel

the model of which he speaks...i had the wheels milled out and they came back a bit bigger than i thought, lol

While I don't entirely buy your logic, you do very nice work!! Hope to see something real from you some day. Keep us up to date...not joking, I really mean it. Camilo Pardo is highly esteemed as a designer among us who own the Ford GT...he designed the most recent model. Best of luck!

[footie]

So I'm an idiot and all your cylinders aren't firing. If nothing else we at least sound to have the same mentality.

Again I repeat by saying that give excessive amounts of personal income no one would pick the ACR over a European exotic. If you don't agree with that then you are a patriot of the highest caliber and I commend you on that but frankly you would still be barking.

[footie]

Originally Posted by Cyclenirvana

While I don't entirely buy your logic, you do very nice work!! Hope to see something real from you some day. Keep us up to date...not joking, I really mean it. Camilo Pardo is highly esteemed as a designer among us who own the Ford GT...he designed the most recent model. Best of luck!

+1

He has a gift when it comes to designing things of beauty. Shame his logic is so far removed from reality.

[southlight]

What's the matter today? Can we please stay on topic and avoid any abusive comments?


Best regards,
south

[wiggyx]

Originally Posted by footie

So I'm an idiot and all your cylinders aren't firing. If nothing else we at least sound to have the same mentality.

Again I repeat by saying that give excessive amounts of personal income no one would pick the ACR over a European exotic. If you don't agree with that then you are a patriot of the highest caliber and I commend you on that but frankly you would still be barking.

Just as an FYI, I'm not trying to show that I have some sort of patriotic devotion to the Viper or US car makers, I only use it to exemplify how inane your argument is.

I would buy a Viper long before I bought an M3, Benz, Porsche, etc. It's way more bang for your buck and doesn't include all that frilly crap that I simply don't care about. If I had a ton of money, then yes I'd buy European exotics too, but you better believe that a Viper would be in my garage as well. So there you have it. I've gone and disproved your statement.

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by wiggyx

Just as an FYI, I'm not trying to show that I have some sort of patriotic devotion to the Viper or US car makers, I only use it to exemplify how inane your argument is.

I would buy a Viper long before I bought an M3, Benz, Porsche, etc. It's way more bang for your buck and doesn't include all that frilly crap that I simply don't care about. If I had a ton of money, then yes I'd buy European exotics too, but you better believe that a Viper would be in my garage as well. So there you have it. I've gone and disproved your statement.

I actually bought my M3 over a Viper and Z06. Much more complete package. Everyone to their own. Apparently I like frilly crap.

[wiggyx]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

I actually bought my M3 over a Viper and Z06. Much more complete package. Everyone to their own. Apparently I like frilly crap.

That's my point exactly. Everyone has their own taste/wants/needs from a car. I personally like that the Viper's cabin gets hotter than an oven and that when pushed, the Viper let's you know who's in charge. Nobody can speak for everyone else (cough footie cough), it just doesn't make any sense. I'm happy to hear that you purchased a car that suites your needs and wants

[footie]

Originally Posted by wiggyx

Just as an FYI, I'm not trying to show that I have some sort of patriotic devotion to the Viper or US car makers, I only use it to exemplify how inane your argument is.

I would buy a Viper long before I bought an M3, Benz, Porsche, etc. It's way more bang for your buck and doesn't include all that frilly crap that I simply don't care about. If I had a ton of money, then yes I'd buy European exotics too, but you better believe that a Viper would be in my garage as well. So there you have it. I've gone and disproved your statement.

I don't mean anything by this but 'bang for your buck' is a saying I hear a lot of Americans using when defending their home grown products. I can understand such a philosophy but there is another saying we use in Europe, 'you get what you pay for'.

Maybe I'm a customer who values quality more than quantity, unlike your good self.

[footie]

Originally Posted by wiggyx

That's my point exactly. Everyone has their own taste/wants/needs from a car. I personally like that the Viper's cabin gets hotter than an oven and that when pushed, the Viper let's you know who's in charge. Nobody can speak for everyone else (cough footie cough), it just doesn't make any sense. I'm happy to hear that you purchased a car that suites your needs and wants

I'm not doubting that there will be some people who would pick a Viper first but I think (and I would bet most here would agree) the majority would pick anything other than a Viper given a choice.

As I said above, it's all down to what value you place on quality over quantity.

[spyder1727]

i'd take a viper over an M3, 5, 6, Porsche(besides Carrera gt), any audi, etc any day

[footie]

Same styling.

I now understand why you two like the Viper so much more than I do and why you would possibly pick it over a Ferrari or Lamborghini.




NOT

[wiggyx]

Originally Posted by footie

I don't mean anything by this but 'bang for your buck' is a saying I hear a lot of Americans using when defending their home grown products. I can understand such a philosophy but there is another saying we use in Europe, 'you get what you pay for'.

Maybe I'm a customer who values quality more than quantity, unlike your good self.

Yeah, you get a lot of other amenities that I don't care about. I don't want features, I want a drivetrain, tires, a seat and a steering wheel. I don't need my car to hand me my seat belt. What a useless, stupid feature.

Originally Posted by footie

As I said above, it's all down to what value you place on quality over quantity.

No, it's about your priorities. I like having a fast car that doesn't a bunch of cushy features. When I want to be comfortable I'll drive a cushy car. I don't like those two things mixed together. Also, your quality vs. quantity argument makes no sense. What does the Viper have in greater quantity besides 2 extra cylinders?

Originally Posted by footie

Same styling.

I now understand why you two like the Viper so much more than I do and why you would possibly pick it over a Ferrari or Lamborghini.

NOT

Duh, they're the same brand. Of course they share certain design cues