[Echo M3]

Now I'm depressed after reading all of this.

[pimp4cheddar]

[Cyrax91]

F*ck marriage dude this sounds horrible. Sorry to hear about your situation man hope it all works out for you.

[carve]

The marriage isn't bad- it's the divorce that'll get you. I've been married 12 years and things are going fine. In fact, except for a couple of cousins who haven't been married long, I'm the only person on either side of my family who hasn't been divorced. Scary. I think the secret is not having a kid- lots of added stress, and we're left with plenty of time and money for fun. It sucked when my parents broke up and it's a big reason why I'm hesitent to have kids myself.

It can be risky though.

That was an interesting stat earlier on how ~50% of first marriages fail, ~65% of 2nd marriages, etc. I guess some people just aren't very good at it.

[Oregano123]

Originally Posted by mylydiamy

I don't want to scare anyone but strongly advice everybody to be carefull.

If you are planning to get married, talk to a lawyer about prenup for your present and future assets.

If you are married and have a feeling that your marriage does not have a brigth future, start moving your assets : move your money to your thrustworty friends/family members, hide as much of your income as possible. And remember, the magic number is 10. After ten years of marriage, you are stuck with life time alimony in most cases. And do not let your wife catch you cheating. That would put you in deep sh%#.

1. hiding assets may invalidate prenuptial agreement.

2. all states have no-fault divorce. whether you cheat is irrelevant.
"As of October 2010, no-fault divorce is allowed in all fifty states and the District of Columbia."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-faul...e_other_states

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by ideliver

The reason divorce is so expensive....it's worth it

Hahaha

Women are like hurricanes,they come wild and wet,when they leave they take your house ,your car and leave you with nothing.

[dmw16]

OP, look at it this way, you are probably unhappy at home and I'm sure your daughter can see it. So you make a clean break from your wife and learn to be happy again. Your daughter gets to see you (and probably your wife) happy and hopefully down the road in healthy, happy marriages.

You'll be a better parent if you walk away from a bad situation and move forward. Your life isn't over and chances are your wife will eventually remarry anyway.

Try to look on the bright side.

[achien]

just one advice...

divorce is a war of attrition (at your cost), the sooner you settle with you wife, the better.

[M3Bahn]

Originally Posted by Watwood

This thread has taught me a shit ton today.

It should be made into a sticky for all the marriage noobs out there.

[DarkRider23]

Sucks for you, OP. You're now part of the system that sees females as victims in law while us men have to serve as indentured servants, so they can live long and happy lives. There's a reason male suicide rates are 4x the rate of female suicides in this country.

This is how fucked up our system is towards men:

http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/?p=18968

[michaelthepsycho]

Man... I already knew I don't believe in marriage but this thread just quadruples my belief. Pre-nup or nada!

I know what you're going through. My roommate just went through the same shit in the previous year and I'd say it was probably the lowest point of his life. He's out the hole now and on his way back up with another relationship. You'll get through it. Pay more now and save later.

[Bluesummer]

The official "If you THINK you had a shitty day, think again" thread.

[JCE]

Originally Posted by pman10

Now I'm depressed after reading all of this.

Move to Texas, there is no alimony. Also, maximum child support since 2007 is 1500/month, unless there are special circumstances for the child such as a disability or something.

There is a bunch of stupid shyt people have to go thru in other states.

[mylydiamy]

Originally Posted by Bobble

To clarify a couple points raised in here all based on Cali family law which I became an internet expert on 8 years ago:

Yes if a women makes more money she can be ordered to pay alimony, my sister did shes a Doc her ex was a surf bum(nice guy though) and a friend has to (she's an IT consultant like me her ex is a pastor go figure).

If you lose your job and you must prove it was not deliberate, you can petition to have your payments lowered but likewise she can petition to have them raised at a later date. Moving to an area that pays less does not matter that was your choice not the courts or ut of your control.

ideliver brough up a good point, has she sought counsel at this point yet? If the laws in NJ are like Cali a lawyer cannot represent her if he has already had a consult with you and vice versa. You could effectively cause her to seek a less qualified lawyer if you consult with all the "movers and shakers" in your area.

And yes you could be held financially responsible for her court fees.

I would caution on one point someone made about moving away and accepting the courts decisions. My kids suffered greatly at the thought their mother bascially up'd and moved out on them, in fact she did so on our son's 13 birthday weekend to boot. They hold deep resentments towards her as a result, they were 13 and 17 at the time. Our daughter is getting married in 16 days and her mom's role in the wedding is minimal at best and she is hurt over it but our daughter told her she did not have any remorse moving out on them and since all her difficult years came on my watch and dime she had chosen to have the ceremony with my self and my long term girl friend(6+ years) as the family focal point. I'm sure that stung and I feel bad for her but in your case carefully weigh what may come up at a later time in you and your daughters life.

Honestly see what can be done legally to reduce the estimate, it can be based on the earnings she should be qualified to make in Cali. Oh and the mediation point, I looked into that as well but what turned me away was they will suggest you both retain counsel and have them review the agreement so in affect you could still get the greedy motive to set in, just imagine in you agree on let's say 2k/month forever and the attorney tells her why the court will give you 3.5K and you can stick him with the costs what do you think the decision will be.

Hang in there, life does exist after divorce. Hell I had to write a check for
426K as her half of the community property and yes I'm still hurting financially compared to before, economic downturn did not help, but I am happier now then in the last 15 years and share my life with a wonderful person who pulls her own weight and is always there no matter what.

Thanks man. Everything you said matches with lawyers said.

I am glad you are doing better overall although you have financial issues. This is my only hope. All I have to is to find a way not to let it (her enjoying using my hard earned money) get to me.

[mylydiamy]

Originally Posted by dmw16

OP, look at it this way, you are probably unhappy at home and I'm sure your daughter can see it. So you make a clean break from your wife and learn to be happy again. Your daughter gets to see you (and probably your wife) happy and hopefully down the road in healthy, happy marriages.

You'll be a better parent if you walk away from a bad situation and move forward. Your life isn't over and chances are your wife will eventually remarry anyway.

Try to look on the bright side.

Thanks. Very true. Couldn't be said any better.

[Ounce]

Lawyer up, pay for a good one up front now because you're honestly investing in your future. What's an extra 10-20k now in comparison to dropping 10-20k per year from your alimony/child support payments?

For the people giving advice about "Yes, Dear" being the key to a good marriage, enjoy your divorce in the future after you've been cuckolded multiple times. Pushovers are the biggest attraction killer ever, ignore her words and temporary crabby reaction to you standing up to her, because behind the scenes she's loving it. Again, please please do not approach the relationship this way. You (like most American Men now unfortunately) have been brainwashed by our feminist society into thinking you should act a certain way, when it's completely opposite of what is biologically attractive to the female sex.

If you do this from the start, you'll be in great shape and you'll get less and less garbage as things go on pretty easily. If you're already in a relationship, applying this maxim will get you a bit of a poostorm at first but hold strong and benefits will roll in. This is probably half the reason so many long term relationships are sex starved. A women biologically can't be attracted to a "Yes Dear, Sure Honey" kind of man. He's a wimp.

[mylydiamy]

I want to thank everybody for your support and advice.

Yesterday I talked to anther lawyer (there goes another $400 but it is nothing compared to what I am about to lose ).

He told me pretty much the same things that other lawyers said. The laws are designed to make sure that both parties will continue to have equal (or the same as before the divorce) life style after divorce. So if you make $200K and your wife makes $50K (or potentially can make $50K), laws takes away $50-75K from you and gives it to your wife. This is pretty much how it works if your marriage is over 10 years. And you continue forking her money forever unless either you or she dies or she remarries (who would want to remarry and lose easy money??). The only way for me to avoid paying her alimony if I offer her large amount of money. But lawyer said she would not accept anything less than $300,000 once she consults a lawyer.

We were very close to divorce about 4 years ago. At that time she used to make 3 times more and I used to make half of what I make now. If we had divorced at that time, I could have walked away without any alimony obligation. I must have banged my had against the wall at least 50 times after I found out this the other day.


So guys, please be careful. It is impossible to realize the seriousness and consequences of divorce until you are in it. You can lose your lifetime achievements. It can turn your life upside down.

I am sure I am not the only person in this situation and will not be the last one. Knowing this helps me a bit. I am trying very hard to convince my self to accept the situation as it is, and believe that better and happier days are ahead.

One again thanks for your support.

[Ounce]

Originally Posted by mylydiamy

I want to thank everybody for your support and advice.

Yesterday I talked to anther lawyer (there goes another $400 but it is nothing compared to what I am about to lose ).

He told me pretty much the same things that other lawyers said. The laws are designed to make sure that both parties will continue to have equal (or the same as before the divorce) life style after divorce. So if you make $200K and your wife makes $50K (or potentially can make $50K), laws takes away $50-75K from you and gives it to your wife. This is pretty much how it works if your marriage is over 10 years. And you continue forking her money forever unless either you or she dies or she remarries (who would want to remarry and lose easy money??). The only way for me to avoid paying her alimony if I offer her large amount of money. But lawyer said she would not accept anything less than $300,000 once she consults a lawyer.

We were very close to divorce about 4 years ago. At that time she used to make 3 times more and I used to make half of what I make now. If we had divorced at that time, I could have walked away without any alimony obligation. I must have banged my had against the wall at least 50 times after I found out this the other day.


So guys, please be careful. It is impossible to realize the seriousness and consequences of divorce until you are in it. You can lose your lifetime achievements. It can turn your life upside down.

I am sure I am not the only person in this situation and will not be the last one. Knowing this helps me a bit. I am trying very hard to convince my self to accept the situation as it is, and believe that better and happier days are ahead.

One again thanks for your support.

That blows man, sorry to hear it. Makes me glad that one of my criteria for wife material was a real legit career and head on her shoulders. She's not quite at my level but isn't very far off it either, so I think I wouldn't really get screwed considering she can provide the same lifestyle for herself as she would if we were together. Then again, given the setup for divorce law in this country, there's probably always some way to screw the husband over.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by mylydiamy

We were very close to divorce about 4 years ago. At that time she used to make 3 times more and I used to make half of what I make now. If we had divorced at that time, I could have walked away without any alimony obligation. I must have banged my had against the wall at least 50 times after I found out this the other day.

If you were close 3 yrs ago, maybe she talked to a lawyer and heard with her pay she would have to pay you, so instead of doing that, she made nice with you and managed to reduce her pay in the mean time and then made your life hell and now it is your idea to get the divorce and she comes out on top.

But really, if you both can be reasonable you can both come out better if you avoid the lawyer route, but keep in mind, it does not mean you can not hire a lawyer later if it all turns nasty. When it gets nasty is when having a disinterested party helps, you let them deal with it and make it go away.

[///My5UV]

For those people that say alimony is lifetime after 10 years... why didn't anyone tell me that 4 years ago!? j/k

In Texas, after 10 years there can be alimony but it's apparently limited to 3 years.
I've heard Maine has limits as well, and according to wikipedia (so yeah, totally bank on that :-) NJ has had some attempts at reforming, so maybe if the OP sticks it out a while longer until his daughter is off to college he'd be in much better shape financially. If nothing else that'd be an appropriate time to move to a smaller house anyway, and what if that happened to be in another state? Of course I have no idea how long the NJ laws would follow you, and moving, selling and buying houses is all stressful even for a healthy marriage so that would suck. Holding off might help his daughter's mental state as well...but I don't know how much seeing her folks not having a healthy relationship is helping... that's your call.

Personally, I'm in the camp with the joke "You know why divorce is so expensive? Because it's worth it." If you can make a clean break and move on then it's totally worth the money cost to have mental well-being. However, since you seem to like your money more than your wife, I can see that's a big mental leap. Also if you're stuck with lifetime alimony that's not much of a clean break, and if you ever want to see your daughter again, then that's just not possible.

I will plead that you not be one of those d-bag divorced dads that fights to get custody just to "win something" and/or get out of some child support payments, and then when you have time with your daughter leaving her with other people. Said a nicer way, time with her will become more precious...treasure it.

I'll also comment on people bagging on marriage... I could be wrong but I think a prenup usually only protects assets you have before marriage, right? Doesn't seem like the ultimate fix. I'll definitely agree that having kids will make a marriage much harder. If you put any effort into choosing a spouse that's a good fit for you, I think most people can make a marriage (without kids) work. Having kids will absolutely bring any little problems up to a full boil, so that's something you need to know.

This is probably the part where I should remind you that not all advice you get on the internet is good advice :-)

[ES_TRADER]

Originally Posted by ///My5UV

I'll also comment on people bagging on marriage... I could be wrong but I think a prenup usually only protects assets you have before marriage, right? Doesn't seem like the ultimate fix. I'll definitely agree that having kids will make a marriage much harder. If you put any effort into choosing a spouse that's a good fit for you, I think most people can make a marriage (without kids) work. Having kids will absolutely bring any little problems up to a full boil, so that's something you need to know.

you are 100% correct here...prenup only for pre marital assets....basicalyl lists whats yours and mine BEFORE we got married so if we divorce we take whats ours.....IF you live in a community property state, its half half all the way for assets acquired during the marriage. If you inherited property or money during your marriage, with or without a prenup, those monies cannot be taken by your spouse...but you have to keep meticulous records and make sure you dont commingle the assets.

A prenup doesnt say anything about alimony or child support

[mylydiamy]

Originally Posted by ///My5UV

For those people that say alimony is lifetime after 10 years... why didn't anyone tell me that 4 years ago!? j/k

In Texas, after 10 years there can be alimony but it's apparently limited to 3 years.
I've heard Maine has limits as well, and according to wikipedia (so yeah, totally bank on that :-) NJ has had some attempts at reforming, so maybe if the OP sticks it out a while longer until his daughter is off to college he'd be in much better shape financially. If nothing else that'd be an appropriate time to move to a smaller house anyway, and what if that happened to be in another state? Of course I have no idea how long the NJ laws would follow you, and moving, selling and buying houses is all stressful even for a healthy marriage so that would suck. Holding off might help his daughter's mental state as well...but I don't know how much seeing her folks not having a healthy relationship is helping... that's your call.

Personally, I'm in the camp with the joke "You know why divorce is so expensive? Because it's worth it." If you can make a clean break and move on then it's totally worth the money cost to have mental well-being. However, since you seem to like your money more than your wife, I can see that's a big mental leap. Also if you're stuck with lifetime alimony that's not much of a clean break, and if you ever want to see your daughter again, then that's just not possible.

I will plead that you not be one of those d-bag divorced dads that fights to get custody just to "win something" and/or get out of some child support payments, and then when you have time with your daughter leaving her with other people. Said a nicer way, time with her will become more precious...treasure it.

I'll also comment on people bagging on marriage... I could be wrong but I think a prenup usually only protects assets you have before marriage, right? Doesn't seem like the ultimate fix. I'll definitely agree that having kids will make a marriage much harder. If you put any effort into choosing a spouse that's a good fit for you, I think most people can make a marriage (without kids) work. Having kids will absolutely bring any little problems up to a full boil, so that's something you need to know.

This is probably the part where I should remind you that not all advice you get on the internet is good advice :-)

Thanks. My daughter is the most important thing. As much as I love her be with her all the time, I know she would be better of being her mother because of my long hours of work and commute. That's why I wand joint custody so that I would have saying in decision made for my daughter, but I would allow my wife to have full physical custody.

As you said one you have kids, it is completely different ball game. We had a perfect marriage until my daughter was born. Then everything went upside down. Almost each divorce that I am aware of took place after kids.

In terms of waiting for laws to change, I think it is along shot and I don't want to stay married any longer.

I started leaning towards the idea of giving her one time larger amount of money. I am not sure how much that would be but I am willing to give up my life time savings, and maybe part of my 401K. I am not going offer her any money, and wait to see the final numbers of alimony per month and length). Then I will make an offer, any where from $100,000 to $250,000 (that's beside her share on our assets including the house which is almost paid off). So this way I can have piece of mind.

Still thinking and thinking and thinking and thinking .....