[Frobius]

Are people missing the fact that these cars have an M engine in them? Not just a sportier version of an existing engine like the 1M, but an M engine! I remember when all the haters were complaining about the 1M not having a true Sxx engine. Then you all complained about the M5 being forced induction. Now this. The car isn't trying to be a diesel M5. Did you all complain when BMW first used electric seats or cd players? It's called moving with the fucking times!

Who gives a shit if it's a diesel or not. The fact is, it's more powerful and a damn sight torquier than an E46 M3. Does that not mean that it's a performance car?!

BMW aren't diluting the M brand, they're using it!

People can put M badges on their 320 saloons all day long and you know what, I don't care. I and the rest of the world will know that it's just a badge. Do you really think that people can't tell the difference between an M3 and a 520d with an M badge?!

I for one would jump at the M550d Touring. 381hp and better economy than my 330?! Yes please! I won't however think I'm driving an M5. Just a performance M diesel.

Finally, I think the US as a whole, and apologies for the sweeping statement, but you guys need to get over the diesel hate. Move with the times. Ok it's not popular in the states and in places, actually hard to find, yet you complain it's a shit fuel when someone up there said that most people put regular (88 Ron) fuel in their cars?!?! I wouldn't put that in my lawnmower!!!

Not meaning to start a flame war, and I've put my suit on already, but come on. Too many people getting precious about something they know very little about.

[Norsk]

Frobius; Do like your point about sh*t fuel

[Vladiik]

To all americans....

[airwave808]

I personally don't care for the M badge or not. I would love to special order an X5 M50d if I could. The engine with 546 lbs/ft of torque sounds amazing. I just wished that they called it 50d only.

[Rustler]

Originally Posted by Frobius

Finally, I think the US as a whole, and apologies for the sweeping statement, but you guys need to get over the diesel hate. Move with the times. Ok it's not popular in the states and in places, actually hard to find, yet you complain it's a shit fuel when someone up there said that most people put regular (88 Ron) fuel in their cars?!?! I wouldn't put that in my lawnmower!!!

Not meaning to start a flame war, and I've put my suit on already, but come on. Too many people getting precious about something they know very little about.

I think you are misreading the issue many posters have expressed with regard to this new model line (myself excluded), which is that by putting the M badge on this "tweener" line of cars M is diluting its brand, and perhaps also that by making any car that allocates some its purpose to economy, M is lessened as a brand. This is different than the conversation you have raised, which is whether diesels are a good alternative/additional option to gasoline engines (regardless of badging).

To answer the point you have raised, I think many (perhaps most?, myself included in any event) car enthusiasts in the US would love to see more diesel options, so your post on an enthusiast forum is preaching to the choir, and really a gross generalization which by and large doesn't apply to your audience.

If you want to rant about a lack of diesels in the US, I think you should focus your attention away from US auto enthusiasts, and towards: 1) big agribusiness which wanted to preserve demand for gasoline with corn based ethanol additives and other corn based "bio" fuels; 2) the breadbasket politicians they own; and 3) and the resulting effect on the automotive market place in America, which promoted gasoline cars through marketing, subsidies, and import regulation/homologation rules. In other words, the average consumer here wants gasoline, but they haven't been given all the facts and no alternative anyway, whereas most enthusiasts wish we had more diesels.

Thoughts?

[Frobius]

You know what, I agree with you. Apologies for the bit of a rant but reading through the posts it all seemed a bit 'on the diesel hate wagon'.

As for brand dilution, surely M division has been doing that since putting the badge on parts destined for what are essentially sport models? Someone even suggested that the new M performance cars be called M-Line a la Audi S-Line. Think M Sport models have that covered! The difference being that the M performance models are indeed M tuned and performance cars, unlike their sport branded cousins. I don't think BMW are trying to dilute the M brand, but simply adding a more accessible and daily driver friendly option, much like Audi's S4 compared to RS4 etc.

That said, if the M550d is going to be priced as rumoured, the price gap between the M performance models and the 'full fat' M cars is a bit narrow in my humble opinion. €80,000 works out about £70,000, which is only a whisker off M5 money! To that end, I would have thought the M550d to have made more sense priced not far beyond 550i money rather than so close if not the same as M5 money.

[Frobius]

Erm, that's meant to be 80,000 euros and 70,000 pounds. Phone doesn't s

[Frobius]

eem to want to post symbols.

Or keep my posts together it seems!

[bavarian19]

Originally Posted by dadealus

M550D
0-60 : 4.7
37: US MPG

why wouldn't they bring this to the USA?!

That is a real shame...

[Rustler]

Originally Posted by Frobius

As for brand dilution, surely M division has been doing that since putting the badge on parts destined for what are essentially sport models? Someone even suggested that the new M performance cars be called M-Line a la Audi S-Line. Think M Sport models have that covered! The difference being that the M performance models are indeed M tuned and performance cars, unlike their sport branded cousins. I don't think BMW are trying to dilute the M brand, but simply adding a more accessible and daily driver friendly option, much like Audi's S4 compared to RS4 etc.

Agreed, and as far as I see it, as long as M still makes the full caffeinated version (and the enthusiast can still pick it out of the the line up) what difference does it make if there's a half/caff version to reach a broader audience?

We certainly do get the shaft on many nice options you all have over there, but the real craw in my side is that I can't get a 335i in a wagon, although I certainly also wish we had more diesel alternatives (I would particularly appreciate a diesel in my VW Eurovan, even as good as the 2.8 VR6 gasoline is).

I find this shocking: As far as I can tell there is no diesel, AWD drive wagon (not SUV) available for sale in the US.

[Frobius]

I suppose it's catch 22. With diesel being more difficult to get hold of (I saw a load of places outside of cities that didn't stock it) then the market for diesel cars isn't there. With no market, what's the incentive for independent fuel stations to stock it!

Fair point on the lack of choice that we get. Mind you, over here awd is only available on X models (SUVs). And while an M3 can be gotten for 60k us dollars, the same car costs the equivalent of 90k US in the UK!

[Frobius]

Bah, just read that BMW UK have said that we won't get the M550d either, only the X5/6 M50d! :'(

[Hedoniste]

Sorry for people who can't afford M5 or X5M/X6M.... Really...

[Quasimodem]

Originally Posted by Frobius

Bah, just read that BMW UK have said that we won't get the M550d either, only the X5/6 M50d! :'(

Cant you buy it in Europe and register it in UK as a used car?

[P1]

Absolutely love the 5-series touring. But the badges. CRAP. I've been making fun of those people for YEARS! And now BMW is doing it...

[P1]

Originally Posted by Frobius

Are people missing the fact that these cars have an M engine in them? Not just a sportier version of an existing engine like the 1M, but an M engine! I remember when all the haters were complaining about the 1M not having a true Sxx engine. Then you all complained about the M5 being forced induction. Now this. The car isn't trying to be a diesel M5. Did you all complain when BMW first used electric seats or cd players? It's called moving with the fucking times!

Who gives a shit if it's a diesel or not. The fact is, it's more powerful and a damn sight torquier than an E46 M3. Does that not mean that it's a performance car?!

BMW aren't diluting the M brand, they're using it!

People can put M badges on their 320 saloons all day long and you know what, I don't care. I and the rest of the world will know that it's just a badge. Do you really think that people can't tell the difference between an M3 and a 520d with an M badge?!

I for one would jump at the M550d Touring. 381hp and better economy than my 330?! Yes please! I won't however think I'm driving an M5. Just a performance M diesel.

Finally, I think the US as a whole, and apologies for the sweeping statement, but you guys need to get over the diesel hate. Move with the times. Ok it's not popular in the states and in places, actually hard to find, yet you complain it's a shit fuel when someone up there said that most people put regular (88 Ron) fuel in their cars?!?! I wouldn't put that in my lawnmower!!!

Not meaning to start a flame war, and I've put my suit on already, but come on. Too many people getting precious about something they know very little about.

As a Belgian living in Texas, I can assure you that MANY MANY people would jump for joy if more diesels were available. There is absolutely not hate for them here. The selection, however, is quite limited. If you wish to stick with BMW, you can get a 3-series saloon with a diesel or an X5 with a diesel. Mercedes has the ML, GL and E class. Audi has the Q7 and the A3.

So the demand is there. There is just a very limited choice.

I drive a diesel myself, albeit a 5.9L diesel...

[Frobius]

Originally Posted by Quasimodem

Cant you buy it in Europe and register it in UK as a used car?

Could do but the resale value of imports is crap and insurance is higher for some reason. Not to mention warranty issues and the fact the steering wheel would be on the wrong side!!

[Thud]

Originally Posted by Frobius

I suppose it's catch 22. With diesel being more difficult to get hold of (I saw a load of places outside of cities that didn't stock it) then the market for diesel cars isn't there. With no market, what's the incentive for independent fuel stations to stock it!

Fair point on the lack of choice that we get. Mind you, over here awd is only available on X models (SUVs). And while an M3 can be gotten for 60k us dollars, the same car costs the equivalent of 90k US in the UK!

I think the tide will continue turning.... with the Diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee coming to the US in 2013, and the Porsche Cayenne Diesel also coming to the US (that's a no brainer since it's the same motor as the Q7 and Touareg), we'll continue to see more and more diesels.

Mercedes seems to be the only company that seems committed to selling diesel sedans in the US though... but considering those Bluetecs only put out 210hp, BMW has a clear advantage if they wanted to dominate that market with a diesel 5-series here.

Now Audi's got a 300+hp 3.0TDI in the works, which will probably replace the current V6 TDI in their lineup eventually... the diesel revolution is just beginning!

[P1]

Originally Posted by Frobius

Could do but the resale value of imports is crap and insurance is higher for some reason. Not to mention warranty issues and the fact the steering wheel would be on the wrong side!!

My mother bought her 335i in London (Park Lane) and ordered it with the steering wheel on the left hand side. Not a problem for BMW apparently...

[Frobius]

Originally Posted by P1et

My mother bought her 335i in London (Park Lane) and ordered it with the steering wheel on the left hand side. Not a problem for BMW apparently...

Yeah, but I'd imagine that's because they actually do make a LHD 335i. Seems that one of the reasons. how much truth there is in it I don't know, that they are not importing to the UK is that the XDrive system has been designed around the LHD platform and engineering it into an RHD vehicle would be costly.

Doesn't explain how we get RHD X5s etc though.

To be honest I think the primary driver is that the cost of cars in the UK is so inflated that there would end up being very little price difference between an M550d and a full fat M5, thus on one hand who would buy the M550d when you could have the real thing for £10k more. Then again, if you could have 90% of the performance, double the economy for £10k less, why would anyone buy an M5? Rhetorical question unless some marketeers out there have an answer?

[Frobius]

Ah, crisis averted!

My insider guy has just informed me that the M550d WILL indeed come to the UK, albeit in RWD only guise, so no funky, heavy XDrive for us!

That said, will be interesting to see how it puts down 545ft lb of torque through two wheels! Might buy some shares in Pirelli...

[Vintage]

Originally Posted by P1et

As a Belgian living in Texas, I can assure you that MANY MANY people would jump for joy if more diesels were available. There is absolutely not hate for them here. The selection, however, is quite limited. If you wish to stick with BMW, you can get a 3-series saloon with a diesel or an X5 with a diesel. Mercedes has the ML, GL and E class. Audi has the Q7 and the A3.

So the demand is there. There is just a very limited choice.

I drive a diesel myself, albeit a 5.9L diesel...

Amen - more BMW diesel products please. It frustrates me to no end that we do not get a wide selection stateside!