[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

I was about to post the same thing. The M3 is pretty disappointing from a price vs what you get perspective.

Compared to say what...?

[kprocivic]

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

I was about to post the same thing. The M3 is pretty disappointing from a price vs what you get perspective.

lol, coming from someone who drives a watered down m3.

[imserious]

Originally Posted by tdott

So far Alfa seems out of touch with their offerings.

4C not being available in a manual for the NA market is a big failure, the car had a lot of potential.

It sounds like they will miss the mark price wise with their M3 competitor, they are going to have to establish themselves in the market before they can start charging the premium they want to charge.

Agreed. 4C got everything right except the transmission.

The Giulia has an interesting engine, but utterly fails in design . Upside down triangle and a four leaf clover? Not enough. It looks like an Italian Pontiac. Embarrassing.

Alfas should be beautiful, fun to drive, impractical and expensive. The 4C was almost perfect.

4C = B+
Giulia = F

[Nitrousbird]

Originally Posted by kprocivic

lol, coming from someone who drives a watered down m3.

Oh please show us your fancy M3, lol. Yes, my 335 is a daily beater. Or I could have paid 2x the price for an M3 - or bought a much faster CTS-V for the same money.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by ASAP

First car that came to my mind when I thought about this... the Ghibili resale value is like reselling a used Toshiba PC or tires after a drift course... to be fair though, the Ghibili as a whole car is an utter piece of shit, this can at least perform and wasnt built from chrysler parts.

Haha I was going to mention that car.. I think the Ghibili has a great motor but it was pulled out of the oven before it was cooked.

A failed rush job.. but I think the Ghibli even with Chrysler parts has the bones to be great just.. isn't a finished product.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

I was about to post the same thing. The M3 is pretty disappointing from a price vs what you get perspective.

However its rich ..probably the best in duality... performance vs practicality.

Something a GT350(r), GTR, Corvette, F-Type,Viper.. and varying degrees the ATS-v and C63s amg lack.

But then there are the base 911 and 911s

[DocWeatherington]

[Corrupted]

For $100k I would sure hope it's an M3 killer.

[F36_CB1K]

Originally Posted by Corrupted

For $100k I would sure hope it's an M3 killer.

$100k AUD or USD? the article is from an Australian website..

edit: yup, $70k USD per link

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by imserious

Agreed. 4C got everything right except the transmission.

The Giulia has an interesting engine, but utterly fails in design . Upside down triangle and a four leaf clover? Not enough. It looks like an Italian Pontiac. Embarrassing.

Alfas should be beautiful, fun to drive, impractical and expensive. The 4C was almost perfect.

4C = B+
Giulia = F

It's the same TTV6 motor as the Ghibi but tuned to 500hp.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

(Also: IMHO, this is the least attractive Alfa since the king of unattractive Alfas: the Milano, which was actually a re-skinned Saab 9000.)

No the Alfa Milano was not a reskinned Saab 9000. The Alfa Milano was actually based on the GTV6 rooted in the early-mid 70s and was pure Alfa Romeo.

What you are thinking of is the Alfa 164, which was shared with Lancia and Saab.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

No the Alfa Milano was not a reskinned Saab 9000. The Alfa Milano was actually based on the GTV6 rooted in the early-mid 70s and was pure Alfa Romeo.

What you are thinking of is the Alfa 164, which was shared with Lancia and Saab.

Nope. This is the Alfa Milano I'm referring to:



And it was a re-skinned Saab 9000 -- sold in Europe as the Alfa 75, I believe. Look it up.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Nope. This is the Alfa Milano I'm referring to:



And it was a re-skinned Saab 9000 -- sold in Europe as the Alfa 75, I believe. Look it up.

NOPE. you are 10000% wrong....as expected

that car has NOTHING to do with any Saab in any way at all....you are thinking of the Alfa 164.

The Alfa Milano was based off the GTV6 from the 70s. Pure Alfa Romeo.

Look up everything and get back to me. i don't need to look up anything.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

NOPE. you are 10000% wrong....as expected

that car has NOTHING to do with any Saab in any way at all....you are thinking of the Alfa 164.

The Alfa Milano was based off the GTV6 from the 70s. Pure Alfa Romeo.

Look up everything and get back to me. i don't need to look up anything.

So, dude ... read paragraph two here.

We're both correct, in a sense ... and if you look at the Milano and Thema side by side, you'll see basically the same profile.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

So, dude ... read paragraph two here.

We're both correct, in a sense ... and if you look at the Milano and Thema side by side, you'll see basically the same profile.

haha no sorry, man...you are not correct at all.

the Milano is a RWD Alfa based off the Alfetta/Alfa GTV6 from the 70s.

the Saab 9000 is FWD and solely by Saab and then used/shared with Fiat in the 80s for the Fiat, Lancia, and Alfa Romeo variants.

The Milano, however, has nothing to do with Saabs at all. In fact the Alfa 75 was TOTALLY Alfa Romeo.....even Fiat was not involved with its development.

The look of the Milano may seen a bit Saab-ish...but i can assure you that car has nothing to do with any Saab.

"The Alfa 75 was the last car Alfa Romeo produced on the Alfetta Chassis, and as such is the ultimate evolution of the design and it is considerably more refined than its predecessors with most of the major design flaws addressed. The Alfa 75 was released to mark the 75th anniversary of the company, hence the name, and was the last car produced by Alfa Romeo as an independent manufacturer."

http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_romeo_75.shtml

[fecurtis]

An Alfa with a Ferrari engine?!?!

Watch out Toyota! You've got some competition in the reliability department.

[C5driver]

The fact that everyone is STILL gunning for the M3 should tell you something.


ETA for accuracy.

[kprocivic]

Originally Posted by C5driver

The fact that everyone is gunning for the M3 should tell you something.

exactly end thread.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

haha no sorry, man...you are not correct at all.

the Milano is a RWD Alfa based off the Alfetta/Alfa GTV6 from the 70s.

the Saab 9000 is FWD and solely by Saab and then used/shared with Fiat in the 80s for the Fiat, Lancia, and Alfa Romeo variants.

The Milano, however, has nothing to do with Saabs at all. In fact the Alfa 75 was TOTALLY Alfa Romeo.....even Fiat was not involved with its development.

The look of the Milano may seen a bit Saab-ish...but i can assure you that car has nothing to do with any Saab.

"The Alfa 75 was the last car Alfa Romeo produced on the Alfetta Chassis, and as such is the ultimate evolution of the design and it is considerably more refined than its predecessors with most of the major design flaws addressed. The Alfa 75 was released to mark the 75th anniversary of the company, hence the name, and was the last car produced by Alfa Romeo as an independent manufacturer."

http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_romeo_75.shtml

Don't believe everything you read; it could be revisionist ... (Emphasis added):
The Alfa Romeo 75 (a.k.a. Milano) was the last model released before Alfa Romeo was acquired by Fiat. (The Alfa Romeo 164 was the last model developed independently.)

See, I remember the hubbub around the Milano (produced between 1985 and 1992) and its very plain relationship to the Saab 9000 (produced between 1984 and 1988). The car mags had a field day with it -- particularly on the heels of Fiat's acquisition of Alfa, which was largely viewed as a continuation of the cross-make platform-sharing phenomenon that the Type Four 9000/164/Thema/Fiat Croma represented. The fact that the Milano was released the year after the 9000 was is plain evidence of the latter's significant influence on the Milano -- and because Type Four was a Fiat 'thing' and the 9000 and Milano were the only two Type Four derivatives exported to the U.S., the comparison is apt.

I'll grant you this: 'reskinned Saab 9000' is a stretch by me. But I knew a Milano owner who had his car serviced at a Saab dealer back in that day because the city I lived in at the time didn't have an Alfa dealer -- and if I recall correctly, more than a few Saab dealers in the U.S. added Alfa because of the relationship both had with Fiat at the time.

The timing of both models suggests that the 75/Milano was not independently developed by Alfa. I'll go beyond that: it wasn't. The 164 was.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Don't believe everything you read; it could be revisionist ... (Emphasis added):
The Alfa Romeo 75 (a.k.a. Milano) was the last model released before Alfa Romeo was acquired by Fiat. (The Alfa Romeo 164 was the last model developed independently.)

See, I remember the hubbub around the Milano (produced between 1985 and 1992) and its very plain relationship to the Saab 9000 (produced between 1984 and 1988). The car mags had a field day with it -- particularly on the heels of Fiat's acquisition of Alfa, which was largely viewed as a continuation of the cross-make platform-sharing phenomenon that the Type Four 9000/164/Thema/Fiat Croma represented. The fact that the Milano was released the year after the 9000 was is plain evidence of the latter's significant influence on the Milano -- and because Type Four was a Fiat 'thing' and the 9000 and Milano were the only two Type Four derivatives exported to the U.S., the comparison is apt.

I'll grant you this: 'reskinned Saab 9000' is a stretch by me. But I knew a Milano owner who had his car serviced at a Saab dealer back in that day because the city I lived in at the time didn't have an Alfa dealer -- and if I recall correctly, more than a few Saab dealers in the U.S. added Alfa because of the relationship both had with Fiat at the time.

The timing of both models suggests that the 75/Milano was not independently developed by Alfa. I'll go beyond that: it wasn't. The 164 was.

LOL. no. the only thing worse than someone who has no idea what they are talking about is something who, even after being informed of the facts, still has no idea what they are talking about. I can't help you any more, man. The Alfa 75/Milano has NOTHING to do with any Saab. You are totally confusing the Alfa Romeo 164 and the 75. They are NOT the same car by any means.

The Alfa 164 is FWD and developed with Fiat through the Saab 9000. The Alfa 75 is RWD and was a refinement of the Alfetta. Totally different cars. Saab has NEVER built a modern RWD car....this isn't difficult to understand.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

LOL. no. the only thing worse than someone who has no idea what they are talking about is something who, even after being informed of the facts, still has no idea what they are talking about. I can't help you any more, man. The Alfa 75/Milano has NOTHING to do with any Saab. You are totally confusing the Alfa Romeo 164 and the 75. They are NOT the same car by any means.

The Alfa 164 is FWD and developed with Fiat through the Saab 9000. The Alfa 75 is RWD and was a refinement of the Alfetta. Totally different cars. Saab has NEVER built a modern RWD car....this isn't difficult to understand.

Whatever. We'll agree to disagree, as we have before. Drivetrains do not a complete car make, particularly in the day and age in question ... not to mention revisionist histories. ;P

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Whatever. We'll agree to disagree, as we have before. Drivetrains do not a complete car make, particularly in the day and age in question ... not to mention revisionist histories. ;P

Dear lord man, a fwd car is not a rwd car. Ever. Stop confusing ownership/partnership with chassis sharing. The Milano was 0.00% Saab.