[EngineGoBrrr]

After a couple hundred miles with the X1, I'm still scratching my head as to why BMW decided to use this 7 speed dual clutch instead of the tried and true ZF8 speed. In combination with the auto/start stop function, this has got to be one of the worst experiences when taking off from a stop. There is significant lag when the engine starts up as you lift off the brakes and the shift to 2nd is quite harsh. Even when deactivating auto/start stop manually every single time I start the car, it does not solve the transmission problem as the lower gear shifts are very jerky. I am also no stranger to DCTs with plenty of time spent with VWs and that is the standard in terms of comparison. Also have a lot of experience with the ZF8 in various BMW products and that transmission can hold its own against some of the best out there. So it is hard to make sense of why BMW would put a traditionally sportier transmission in a car that is not meant to be sporty.

Curious to all of you have have already taken delivery. Do you notice the harshness of the transmission (especially with auto start/stop on)?. And what work arounds have you used to mitigate the problem?

[Tomduck]

It is a supposed and known style of this box with BMW and most of the direct competition. However I didn’t notice it in particular with the 23i or 18d I test drove, certainly not enough that it would irk me.

The press do bang on about it though, although having been on many press car launches in the past they are rather sheep like, when someone notices something they all report it even if they notice it or not

[MontyB1]

DCT is more efficient and lighter than an older slushmatic which is why BMW have fitted them and more manufacturers are doing the same for that very reason.

We didn't notice and harshness at all, it was as good as the ZF or Assin we have in the other BMWs on that front. My wife did notice the hesitation at first movement / reaction to throttle on a couple or roundabouts she approached. It didn't massively bother here but she did comment on it and it was a factor in us deciding to give the PHEV 25e a try instead of going for the 23i in the UK.

I think some testers get irked that the issues are sometimes there, sometimes not so it's also harder to drive around.

[EngineGoBrrr]

We mainly got this as a city car so the transmission was a bit disappointing. I noticed it on the test drive but was hoping that it would get better after being broken in and we would get used to it. Whenever I drive it I end up with thoughts of why can't the US have the iX1.

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by EngineGoBrrr

We mainly got this as a city car so the transmission was a bit disappointing. I noticed it on the test drive but was hoping that it would get better after being broken in and we would get used to it. Whenever I drive it I end up with thoughts of why can't the US have the iX1.

And have you turned off the hold function as well, that seems to help for some. The issue of the US market is they also don't have the MHT function which seems to help a little spin the engine up far quicker making Stop/start nice to have and add a little early assistance in EU markets. For whatever reason they haven't added it in all markets and combinations.

Why they don't give you the iX1, must be BMW US saying not enough demand, again no idea, does seem odd.

[FlashMonkey929]

Originally Posted by EngineGoBrrr

After a couple hundred miles with the X1, I'm still scratching my head as to why BMW decided to use this 7 speed dual clutch instead of the tried and true ZF8 speed. In combination with the auto/start stop function, this has got to be one of the worst experiences when taking off from a stop. There is significant lag when the engine starts up as you lift off the brakes and the shift to 2nd is quite harsh. Even when deactivating auto/start stop manually every single time I start the car, it does not solve the transmission problem as the lower gear shifts are very jerky. I am also no stranger to DCTs with plenty of time spent with VWs and that is the standard in terms of comparison. Also have a lot of experience with the ZF8 in various BMW products and that transmission can hold its own against some of the best out there. So it is hard to make sense of why BMW would put a traditionally sportier transmission in a car that is not meant to be sporty.

Curious to all of you have have already taken delivery. Do you notice the harshness of the transmission (especially with auto start/stop on)?. And what work arounds have you used to mitigate the problem?

ZF8 is for rear drive only, wouldn’t work for the X1 without a substantial redesign. I notice the hesitation, but it virtually disappears in sport mode so I suspect it’s the software tuning of throttle response rather than the DCT itself. There is some clutch chatter and the car isn’t very good about feathering the clutch, so it is a bit awkward sometimes at low speeds.
I’ve gotten in the habit of leaving the start/stop function on, and I’ve noticed my driving habits have adapted a bit to compensate for it, but it is still annoying at times in stop and go traffic.

The more I drive the car though, I realize that the behavior is rather inconsistent, and that’s the biggest problem.

[ronime]

Apart from the hesitation I don't think this DCT is any worse than the similar one in our previous BMW (F40 118i). Both better than the VAG DQ200 DSG that we had in a SEAT Leon a few years ago.

We do have mild hybrid assistance so can appreciate that the experience might be different on the xDrive28i.

IIRC, the 8-speed torque converter auto box used on transverse engined BMWs is an Aisin unit, not a ZF.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWF8F35

The ZF 8-speed in our 320i was sublime.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by EngineGoBrrr

After a couple hundred miles with the X1, I'm still scratching my head as to why BMW decided to use this 7 speed dual clutch instead of the tried and true ZF8 speed. In combination with the auto/start stop function, this has got to be one of the worst experiences when taking off from a stop. There is significant lag when the engine starts up as you lift off the brakes and the shift to 2nd is quite harsh. Even when deactivating auto/start stop manually every single time I start the car, it does not solve the transmission problem as the lower gear shifts are very jerky. I am also no stranger to DCTs with plenty of time spent with VWs and that is the standard in terms of comparison. Also have a lot of experience with the ZF8 in various BMW products and that transmission can hold its own against some of the best out there. So it is hard to make sense of why BMW would put a traditionally sportier transmission in a car that is not meant to be sporty.

Curious to all of you have have already taken delivery. Do you notice the harshness of the transmission (especially with auto start/stop on)?. And what work arounds have you used to mitigate the problem?

I was using auto brake hold, but I have turned that off for now. So the engine restarts as soon as I take my foot off the brake.

I also notice, just like with my prior F30 and my wife's Hyundai, that if I don't mash the gas pedal from a dead stop, the lag isn't really noticeable.

Lastly, if I'm first in line at a stop light, I'll take my foot off the brake for a split second to get the engine restarted before the light turns green, particularly if I want to get a jump on the oncoming traffic.

[Tomduck]

Originally Posted by tex2670

I was using auto brake hold, but I have turned that off for now. So the engine restarts as soon as I take my foot off the brake.

I also notice, just like with my prior F30 and my wife's Hyundai, that if I don't mash the gas pedal from a dead stop, the lag isn't really noticeable.

Lastly, if I'm first in line at a stop light, I'll take my foot off the brake for a split second to get the engine restarted before the light turns green, particularly if I want to get a jump on the oncoming traffic.

The “stop light” routine you mention has been my default driving style for years now, so seamless is it that it’s now “muscle memory” for my foot and it works seamlessly. I can’t relate to people getting annoyed by stop/start as this “method” is so simple to employ.

[EngineGoBrrr]

Originally Posted by FlashMonkey929

ZF8 is for rear drive only, wouldn’t work for the X1 without a substantial redesign.

That makes a lot more sense. Question is if the Aisin 8 speed would fit the personality of the car better. I drive with auto start/stop and brake hold off and that's where I came to the conclusion that the DCT wasn't quite my cup of tea. Even without the iX1 here, this car would really benefit from a 48v mild hybrid. Test drove the X3 LCI and it definitely made coming off the line a lot smoother.

[MontyB1]

Yeah the MHT on the X3 is really good and pretty seamless, never bothered me once you can't switch it off its more a benefit than a pain and soooo smooth firing the engine back up compared to the old stop start systems.

[JupiterOne]

As others mentioned, this is because of construction. ZF cannot fit with transverse mount engine that is in X1.
The car is amazing, but as correctly mentioned here, there is one small issue - DCT transmission.
There is very little information on type of it. I spent hours exploring the issue. Some French forum is saying BMW is using Magna 7HDT400 48V for all new mild hybrids X1/X2 that combines with electrical motor, though not sure if same goes for US market for 28i where there is no mild hybrid. Some mention on this forum that old GETRAG 7DCT300 is used for US models, but not sure how it copes with 350Nm that 28i produces being designed to handle only 300Nm max. Magna is the same as GETRAG, last was acquired by Magna, so same company. So maybe there is some updated Magna DCT transmission for US market, just mechanical without electrical drive to handle updated torque for US market.
Also may explain differences in experience for US / Non US models if different DCT is used.

[2023x1maybe]

Supposedly the US U11 X1s use the new getrag 7DCT400. Heavier load capacity than the 300

[JupiterOne]

Originally Posted by 2023x1maybe

Supposedly the US U11 X1s use the new getrag 7DCT400. Heavier load capacity than the 300

Also guessed but never found any confirmation. Needs time for youtubers to dig into engine.

[Duncs1961]

I have the X1 2.0S Sport with MHT (UK spec.). My previous car was a BMW Active Tourer with the 1.5L petrol engine, with 7-speed DCT, so essentially the same engine/transmission minus the mild hybrid tech. I have to say that hesitation from a standing start was less noticeable in the Active Tourer than my X1, plus it was less jerky at low speeds and when crawling in traffic than the X1 too.

Also, the change from 1st to 2nd in the X1 is abrupt, even on small throttle input, to the point that if a road is even slightly damp or greasy, the wheels will spin causing a nasty 'thud' when the traction control kicks-in - I guess this wouldnt be so much of a problem if I had X-drive. So from that point-of-view I'm disappointed that my previous car was actually a better drive around town than the X1 fitted with newer tech.

However, thank goodness most of my driving is on rural roads and motorways, as I have to admit that once on the move, the X1 gear changes are very smooth, and throttle responce for overtaking at higher speeds is excellent.

Also on the plus side, whearas my Active Tourer just scraped in at 40MPG, my X1 (a heavier car) easily gets 47MPG on long journeys and 42MPG around town.

Finally and unrelated, don't even get me started on how naff the design of the centre console is though, especially for the RHD market

[Tomduck]

Originally Posted by Duncs1961

“I have the X1 2.0S Sport with MHT (UK spec.). My previous car was a BMW Active Tourer with the 1.5L petrol engine, with 7-speed DCT, so essentially the same engine/transmission minus the mild hybrid tech. I have to say that hesitation from a standing start was less noticeable the Active Tourer than my X1, plus it was less jerky at low speeds and when crawling in traffic. Also, the change from 1st to 2nd is abrupt, even on small throttle input, tonth point that if a road is even slightly damp or greasy, the wheels will spin causing a nasty 'thud' when the traction control kicks-in - I guess this wouldnt be so much of a problem if I had X-drive. So from that point-of-view I'm disappointed that my previous car was actually a better drive around town than the X1 fitted with newer tech.

However, thank goodness most of my driving is on rural roads and motorways, as I have to admit that once on the move, the X1 gear changes are very smooth, and throttle responce for overtaking at higher speeds is excellent.

Also on the plus side, whearas my Active Tourer just scraped in at 40MPG, my X1 (a heavier car) easily gets 47MPG on long journeys and 42MPG around town.

Finally and unrelated, don't even get me started on how naff the design of the centre console is though, especially for the RHD market”

Impressive mpg! Leaves me to ponder what the 18d can do, the dealer demo 23d was averaging 45mpg so I am expecting 50 average with a long motoroway run in the mid 50s. No doubt the X1 shape is very drag efficient (for a SUV) and class leading at 0.26cd.

[Dlanod]

I also have the MHT 20i (M Sport) and I have to say I’m finding it better than the VW DSGs I’ve driven for years. Particularly better than the awful Skoda Karoq that was my last car. It was unbelievably jerky at low speeds and constantly changed down when you were least expecting it. Combine that with sewing machine acceleration from the 1.5 4 cylinder.

So maybe I’m happy because it’s so much better!

MPG also > 40 at the moment and Karoq struggled to get mid to late 30s.

[FLbmw]

Originally Posted by Duncs1961

I have the X1 2.0S Sport with MHT (UK spec.). My previous car was a BMW Active Tourer with the 1.5L petrol engine, with 7-speed DCT, so essentially the same engine/transmission minus the mild hybrid tech. I have to say that hesitation from a standing start was less noticeable in the Active Tourer than my X1, plus it was less jerky at low speeds and when crawling in traffic than the X1 too.

Also, the change from 1st to 2nd in the X1 is abrupt, even on small throttle input, to the point that if a road is even slightly damp or greasy, the wheels will spin causing a nasty 'thud' when the traction control kicks-in - I guess this wouldnt be so much of a problem if I had X-drive. So from that point-of-view I'm disappointed that my previous car was actually a better drive around town than the X1 fitted with newer tech.

However, thank goodness most of my driving is on rural roads and motorways, as I have to admit that once on the move, the X1 gear changes are very smooth, and throttle responce for overtaking at higher speeds is excellent.

Also on the plus side, whearas my Active Tourer just scraped in at 40MPG, my X1 (a heavier car) easily gets 47MPG on long journeys and 42MPG around town.

Finally and unrelated, don't even get me started on how naff the design of the centre console is though, especially for the RHD market

Impressive and jealous on how you guys get more than 40mpg but with the 28i US version I can’t get anything above 20mpg. Not sure if just because the car is still new or I just drove it like a maniac, but my x7 gets me 28mpg

[Duncs1961]

Originally Posted by FLbmw

Impressive and jealous on how you guys get more than 40mpg but with the 28i US version I can’t get anything above 20mpg. Not sure if just because the car is still new or I just drove it like a maniac, but my x7 gets me 28mpg

The MPG in the UK seems more impressive than the US because our gallon is larger the the US gallon! (US gallon = 3.8 litres, UK gallon = 4.5litres)

[FLbmw]

Originally Posted by Duncs1961

The MPG in the UK seems more impressive than the US because our gallon is larger the the US gallon! (US gallon = 3.8 litres, UK gallon = 4.5litres)

I totally forgot about that part to be honest. But I still think 21mpg is still on the low end

[FlashMonkey929]

This is my current average, mileage wise I’m probably close to 50/50 between city and freeway:

[50ShadesOfGrey]

It almost sounds as if the US spec X1 is an entirely different vehicle than what is available in Europe, UK and elsewhere. I don’t just mean the fact that the US has only one engine choice but also the lag in a US vehicle just seems so much worse than it is elsewhere. Few complaints about it from those lucky enough to have a hybrid, phev or electric. No end of complaints from people driving US 28i. Yes, I realize some American drivers have adapted, but we shouldn’t HAVE to adapt.