[puzzlepuzzling]

Hello all,

Today I went to test drive the bmw x1 2023 with the m package and premium essential package with the 20 inch wheels and 245/40/20 tires. Yes the 20 inch wheels with the new tire measurements takes the bumps better. I talked with Racer20 and his response makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, typcially the chassis are tuned on one “main” tire, then adapted for optional/other tires at the end. It’s possible that the difference between the 18” and 20” tire was bigger than the software could compensate for. People assume smaller rim = bigger sidewall = better ride but that’s actually not true unless you’re keeping all the other variables the same, which isn’t the case here because the 18’s and 20’s are likely totally different tires. Tire deflection can’t really be compensated for by dampers, so if the 18” tire is deflecting a lot then it could be springing back on impacts and causing the disturbance you’re feeling. Usually 1” in wheel diameter is easy to compensate but 2” starts to cause compromises.

Tomorrow I am going to test drive the 19 inch wheels with the 245/45/19 tire measurement and see if they are better or the same as the 20 inch wheels. Will keep you posted.

[MontyB1]

I suspect the 19" will be similar or better than the 20" the 18" might be a step to far as it mentions.

[FlashMonkey929]

Originally Posted by puzzlepuzzling

Hello all,

Today I went to test drive the bmw x1 2023 with the m package and premium essential package with the 20 inch wheels and 245/40/20 tires. Yes the 20 inch wheels with the new tire measurements takes the bumps better. I talked with Racer20 and his response makes a lot of sense.



Tomorrow I am going to test drive the 19 inch wheels with the 245/45/19 tire measurement and see if they are better or the same as the 20 inch wheels. Will keep you posted.

Part of what he said doesn't make sense to me though, because if they were basing the suspension calibration off of one tire size, you'd think they'd do it on the wheel that was standard with the car and not optional.

[Tomduck]

Certainly from all the cars I drove over many years testing and evaluating them for all the prestige German manufacturers I found it farily simple that if you take the suspension set up as given the larger the wheel size the harsher the ride. I have never found that 20” wheels offer a more compliant ride than 19 or 18” wheels, ever.

[puzzlepuzzling]

Originally Posted by Tomduck

Certainly from all the cars I drove over many years testing and evaluating them for all the prestige German manufacturers I found it farily simple that if you take the suspension set up as given the larger the wheel size the harsher the ride. I have never found that 20” wheels offer a more compliant ride than 19 or 18” wheels, ever.

According to an adaptive suspension engineer, typically the chassis is initially designed for a specific tire and wheel and then modified to accommodate others. Tire deflection is a factor to consider, as it can result in increased rebound and potentially lead to a slightly less comfortable ride.

[MontyB1]

When we talk about sophisticated suspension the new i5 has an option called Adaptive damping professional, it doesn't list what it is or what it does in the configurator, nothing.

But the cost, £2400 in the UK, so for something that is 'adaptive' and free ish in the UK at least for M-Sport the clearly have a fully adaptive version that does more but what at the moment is anyones guess for that money.

[SpaceSilverX1]

Originally Posted by FlashMonkey929

Part of what he said doesn't make sense to me though, because if they were basing the suspension calibration off of one tire size, you'd think they'd do it on the wheel that was standard with the car and not optional.

Every German car(VW, Mercedes, Audi) that I owned had harsher ride after I upsized the wheels by 1" or 2"(17 to 18 or 17 to 19) with 30 or 35-series low profile tires. I suppose its because the suspension, even the sport suspension ones, was calibrated/tested with the most popular standard wheel sizes.

After two visits to the service dept to have them look at the unusually high suspension in one corner of my X1. They have decided to replace some parts. However, as of today, the service dept manager left me a message saying the delay was still at least a month and half for the spring and strut to arrive. It will probably be after I return from my road trip.

The second time I was there, they allowed me to go under the car to look at stuff. I asked the BMW tech why there were no obvious electronic controls to the M adaptive suspension that was part of the M Sport package. He said it was because the X1 didn't have a "real" adaptive suspension like a real M car. I didn't ask further and just assumed that he meant the "adaptive" suspension in my M1 was passive, as opposed to an active, electronically-controlled M adaptive suspension setup? If that's that case, is BMW guilty of somewhat deceptive advertising?

[JFDIT]

Yes, definitely dodgy advertising. At least it'll be cheaper and less complicated to repair when the car gets older.
BMW appears to use the term "Adaptive M Suspension" for the electronically controlled version and "M Adaptive Suspension" for the mechanical version used on the X1.

[MontyB1]

So if its 'Adaptive' and a mechanical solution and not electronic as this alludes to, is it really adaptive at all?

Below is the google translation from the BMW.de German PDF Brochure, thoughts?

Adaptive M suspension
- Tighter spring/damper design with vehicle lowered by 15 mm
- Frequency-selective dampers: mechanical self-regulating system depending on road conditions and driving style
- M sports steering: more direct steering ratio with less steering effort

[FlashMonkey929]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

So if its 'Adaptive' and a mechanical solution and not electronic as this alludes to, is it really adaptive at all?

Below is the google translation from the BMW.de German PDF Brochure, thoughts?

Adaptive M suspension
- Tighter spring/damper design with vehicle lowered by 15 mm
- Frequency-selective dampers: mechanical self-regulating system depending on road conditions and driving style
- M sports steering: more direct steering ratio with less steering effort

Frequency selective dampers could just mean that the valving is tuned to respond more to certain types of impacts. It would explain why you can't select the comfort level of the suspension in the chassis tuning menu.

[puzzlepuzzling]

Since it's mechanical can't we then tweak the suspension after all?

[FlashMonkey929]

Originally Posted by puzzlepuzzling

Since it's mechanical can't we then tweak the suspension after all?

Yes.....by replacing the shocks and/or springs.

[puzzlepuzzling]

I tried the 19 inch wheels today. They were not better than the 20 inch wheels with the tire measurement 245/40/20. I believe it is a combination of tire deflection and wheel weight the cause of the bounciness when on the 18 and 19 inch wheels. Thank you for your patience.

[articulatedsphinx]

Originally Posted by puzzlepuzzling

I tried the 19 inch wheels today. They were not better than the 20 inch wheels with the tire measurement 245/40/20. I believe it is a combination of tire deflection and wheel weight the cause of the bounciness when on the 18 and 19 inch wheels. Thank you for your patience.

If you actually want to see if it's electronic or not, you need to open the hood and look at the top of the shock absorbers, not under the car.

There will be an electronic servo at the top of the strut tower which adjusts the valve of the shock.

[FlashMonkey929]

Originally Posted by articulatedsphinx

If you actually want to see if it's electronic or not, you need to open the hood and look at the top of the shock absorbers, not under the car.

There will be an electronic servo at the top of the strut tower which adjusts the valve of the shock.

Nothing on the strut tower that I can see and no wiring harnesses I could find. Looks like they’re just plain old shocks. Which makes sense since you can’t select the comfort mode in iDrive like I could with my f32 with the track handling package.

[articulatedsphinx]

Yep absolute marketing wank by BMW.

Just read in my manual:

"Adaptive M suspension

Principle:
The adaptive M suspension is a variable, mechanically controlled sport suspension.

Setting:
The suspension reduces body movements with a sporty driving style or on an uneven road. Driving dynamics and driving comfort are increased by the control of the suspension."



Quite frankly it's disgusting. I'm glad however I didn't pay extra for the suspension as it's included with the iX1. If I had, I would have been furious.

[FlashMonkey929]

Originally Posted by articulatedsphinx

Yep absolute marketing wank by BMW.

Just read in my manual:

"Adaptive M suspension

Principle:
The adaptive M suspension is a variable, mechanically controlled sport suspension.

Setting:
The suspension reduces body movements with a sporty driving style or on an uneven road. Driving dynamics and driving comfort are increased by the control of the suspension."



Quite frankly it's disgusting. I'm glad however I didn't pay extra for the suspension as it's included with the iX1. If I had, I would have been furious.

I agree it's a bit misleading, but I'm not really bothered by it much. I pretty much just got the M Sport package for all the cosmetic bits. But I guess future buyers beware!

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by articulatedsphinx

Quite frankly it's disgusting. I'm glad however I didn't pay extra for the suspension as it's included with the iX1. If I had, I would have been furious.

Yeah for those that have spent money on what is actually mechanical and not really adaptive at all it’s poor marketing from BMW. Really it’s do you want to make it firmer suspension or more supple. If it wasn’t for the UK having all or nothing in the M-sport I suspect the X-line suspension would be better for most. Firmer than many but not harsh.

[puzzlepuzzling]

Yeah it’s purely mechanics. I asked at the dealership.

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by puzzlepuzzling

Yeah it’s purely mechanics. I asked at the dealership.

That's what it says in the German Brochure, the omit that bit from the UK and I suspect the US as well. Adaptive I think is pushing the use of the word for the suspension to be honest from a legal prospective.

[sillything]

Originally Posted by articulatedsphinx

Yep absolute marketing wank by BMW.

Just read in my manual:

"Adaptive M suspension

Principle:
The adaptive M suspension is a variable, mechanically controlled sport suspension.

Setting:
The suspension reduces body movements with a sporty driving style or on an uneven road. Driving dynamics and driving comfort are increased by the control of the suspension."



Quite frankly it's disgusting. I'm glad however I didn't pay extra for the suspension as it's included with the iX1. If I had, I would have been furious.

I'm kinda salty about it now. I got the base model with "adaptive" suspension 😅

[ramen.slayer]

Frankly. I wasn’t expecting anything the likes of BMW EDC from earlier days or Porsche’s PASM lol.

That said, still sad BMW would advertise these passive dampers as “adaptive” if they aren’t, which at a first glance does suggest these dampers are active of some sort. I hope they are at least remotely as good as Ohlin’s Road & Track lineup in terms of ride quality (note. Ride quality here. Not talking about “handling”)

To play doubles advocate, one cannot easily see the wire coming out of the top of the dampers even for say PASM’s non-inverted dampers. The strut mount often times covers the cable that sticks out from the top of the damper. So it’s actually kinda hidden even IF a car has electronically controlled dampers. Also, I always have trust issues when it comes to info from car-dealers 😂

BMW does advertise these cars as “adaptive M suspension”, which from their website indicates they should be electronically controlled back in 2020: https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/maga...-fahrwerk.html

Of course, I might have just completely missed a glaring difference between that link and today’s iX1 vehicles. One might have to read through all the fine prints to make sure he/she is comparing these publications vs sales brochures

Anyway, enough ranting. I am just asking for BMW to give my kids a decent ride in the back seat instead of the silly wobble that Mercedes has with its GLC … argh