[augerpro]

So I have an M235i xdrive on order! The intent of this car is to provide performance like my 370Z but with the ability to drive all year round. During the test drive on a sweeping curve I did notice the stock all seasons seem a bit under-tired, especially compared to the Bridgestone S-04's on my Z. I'm working through my options, but am drawn to just getting a more high performance all season tire as a reasonable compromise.

Currently looking at the popular Conti ExtremeContact DWS. Even though it is a very high performance tire, it is well known to have a softer sidewall. Does anyone here have experience with this tire specifically against the stock Pirelli all seasons? During the test drive I did not notice much sidewell flex, and don't want to compromise the tight, nimble feel I was so impressed by. Also looking at Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric All Season or Hankook Ventus S1 Noble2 as *maybe* a stiffer sidewall, but giving up some snow traction.

Thoughts?

[SmallTownBoy]

I just bought a set of Nokian WRG3, which you might consider.

Available at A&J Tire Factory in Denver.

http://www.tirefactory.com/aj/Product-Details/NT428631

[augerpro]

That Nokian looks more like a winter tire? After reading reviews of the tires I mentioned, I'm leaning more towards the Goodyears.

[SmallTownBoy]

It's a winter-rated "all weather" tire. Designed to be driven year-round but much better performance in snow than an "all season" tire.

[augerpro]

I would say I'm looking for a high performance tire with at least adequate snow capability (not gonna get me killed like Michelin PSS's would in the snow)

[five3three]

Originally Posted by augerpro

So I have an M235i xdrive on order! The intent of this car is to provide performance like my 370Z but with the ability to drive all year round. During the test drive on a sweeping curve I did notice the stock all seasons seem a bit under-tired, especially compared to the Bridgestone S-04's on my Z. I'm working through my options, but am drawn to just getting a more high performance all season tire as a reasonable compromise.

Currently looking at the popular Conti ExtremeContact DWS. Even though it is a very high performance tire, it is well known to have a softer sidewall. Does anyone here have experience with this tire specifically against the stock Pirelli all seasons? During the test drive I did not notice much sidewell flex, and don't want to compromise the tight, nimble feel I was so impressed by. Also looking at Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric All Season or Hankook Ventus S1 Noble2 as *maybe* a stiffer sidewall, but giving up some snow traction.

Thoughts?

I owned the DWS and I would never buy it again. I do not have experience with the Pirellis but have owned many other brands. In my opinion, the soft sidewall and lack of cornering stability was enough for me to sell them off well before they became worn. It had kind of a floaty feel to it which made the steering feedback even worse.

The only positive I'd give it is that it was quiet and cushy. Never again.

[hoppy6698]

Originally Posted by five3three

I owned the DWS and I would never buy it again. I do not have experience with the Pirellis but have owned many other brands. In my opinion, the soft sidewall and lack of cornering stability was enough for me to sell them off well before they became worn. It had kind of a floaty feel to it which made the steering feedback even worse.

The only positive I'd give it is that it was quiet and cushy. Never again.

I had the Conti DWS on my Audi A4 for the last 2 years. I can confirm some of the same views:
- Softer sidewall (than OEM Pirellis) (makes for quieter ride, sucks for track fun)
- Lateral grip is the first to go.

The DWS is designed to wear out in order: Snow -> Wet - > Dry. They are good for about 1 winter, then 'just enough' for a second winter. By a third winter, don't bet on the snow capability. I have heard other review recommending the Conti DW tires (no S). The S was never that impressive and the DW version has a longer life.

That said, if you are traveling deeper than 2-3" of snow, you need studless snow tires. Even all-seasons are not optimal for deep freeze/snow conditions - they are meant to just get by, not perform. Noticing you are up in Denver, not sure how many days are spent under the white stuff. A true winter set may be a better investment and change out the OEM all-seasons for PSS when they become too worn.

[augerpro]

Originally Posted by hoppy6698

A true winter set may be a better investment and change out the OEM all-seasons for PSS when they become too worn.

Thing is this is a lease, so I'm not keen on buying two sets of tires. I'm leaning towards the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric All Season now. Sounds more responsive in the dry, and step down in the snow from good to ok. We get some snow here, but I'm not convinced I need winter tires to be safe - the Michelin LTX MS on my old Dakota are fantastic in the snow, and they are just all seasons. Albeit top-of-the-line all seasons.

[hoppy6698]

Originally Posted by augerpro

Thing is this is a lease, so I'm not keen on buying two sets of tires. I'm leaning towards the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric All Season now. Sounds more responsive in the dry, and step down in the snow from good to ok. We get some snow here, but I'm not convinced I need winter tires to be safe - the Michelin LTX MS on my old Dakota are fantastic in the snow, and they are just all seasons. Albeit top-of-the-line all seasons.

With AWD (even xDrive), any all seasons should be fine. With the DWS on my Audi I could plow over 6" of snow. Anything less won't be an issue.

[augerpro]

Let me restate: I am NOT looking for snow tire. I'm looking for a performance tire that is better than the all seasons, but with adequate snow capability that won't get me killed like max performance summer tires would.

[overcoil]

I'm thinking about the Michelin Sport A/S 3 for my rwd 235. Been considering this tire for a long time and this months BMW CCA magazine article review was positive, they did a comparison test with the Michelin PSS.
I just wanted a tire for coating of ice conditions.

[augerpro]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

I'm thinking about the Michelin Sport A/S 3 for my rwd 235. Been considering this tire for a long time and this months BMW CCA magazine article review was positive, they did a comparison test with the Michelin PSS.
I just wanted a tire for coating of ice conditions.

Those and Goodyears I mentioned above are looking like my two best choices. Just depends how much I want to weight dry season performance versus snow.

[augerpro]

Also looking at going with 235/40's on the factory wheel (7.5"?). 8" is listed as the minimum wheel size, but I'm not sure .5" makes much difference, Tirerack even mentions BMW doing just that combo in the past.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by augerpro

Let me restate: I am NOT looking for snow tire. I'm looking for a performance tire that is better than the all seasons, but with adequate snow capability that won't get me killed like max performance summer tires would.

You're never going to get that with 1 tire.

Just letting you know.

[augerpro]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

You're never going to get that with 1 tire.

Just letting you know.

So you don't think there is ANY tire out there that is both better in dry season and winter than the oem Pirellis?

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by augerpro

So you don't think there is ANY tire out there that is both better in dry season and winter than the oem Pirellis?

An all season tire is a no-season tire. Regardless with that you go with you're sacrificing dry/wet/and ice grip.

Even with an AWD car, you need tires to grip to brake, or turn. All-season tires (or AWD) don't help you with stopping a car.

[whoosh]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

I'm thinking about the Michelin Sport A/S 3 for my rwd 235. Been considering this tire for a long time and this months BMW CCA magazine article review was positive, they did a comparison test with the Michelin PSS.
I just wanted a tire for coating of ice conditions.

I'm going to second the vote for the Michelins based on the article in this month's Roundel. Have to agree with the above though - no AS tire will have excellent winter performance while also being a high performance tire in summer. You have to choose where the compromise is to be taken. The question is which tire has the smallest compromise, and the Michelin seems to do well on that regard.

[BEM-S4]

Maybe a dumb question but if you're leasing you'll probably have to replace tires before turn in anyway. Why not just get the best summer tire and the best max performance winter tire and have 2 sets? Seems like you're trying to get a compromise tire 12 months out of the year when for the same cost you could have ideal tires all year long.

[augerpro]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Maybe a dumb question but if you're leasing you'll probably have to replace tires before turn in anyway. Why not just get the best summer tire and the best max performance winter tire and have 2 sets? Seems like you're trying to get a compromise tire 12 months out of the year when for the same cost you could have ideal tires all year long.

I am considering using the oem all seasons in the winter and PSS in the summer. Kind of hassle to change twice a year, but maybe.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by augerpro

I am considering using the oem all seasons in the winter and PSS in the summer. Kind of hassle to change twice a year, but maybe.

Can you only get XDrive w all seasons? I got PSS then winters. If you go that route prob cheaper and def better for tires to get winter rims too even if you just get some sport edition $125 deals from tire rack. You'd have to pay to take tires on and off all the time otherwise.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by augerpro

Also looking at going with 235/40's on the factory wheel (7.5"?). 8" is listed as the minimum wheel size, but I'm not sure .5" makes much difference, Tirerack even mentions BMW doing just that combo in the past.

I just ordered new Dunlop Direzza II's (corded my PSS after five track days and 5,000 miles -- more on that in another post) on stock setup with 235/40 and 255/35. A lot of track day persons do these sizes (235's on 7.5 inches and 255's on 8 inches). It is not within the recommended specs per the tire manufacturer, however, you have to remember that these specs are for the lowest common denominator car owner - never checks pressures, doesn't do maintenance, etc. If you properly maintain and check pressures, should be fine - 5mm one either side doesn't really make much difference.

Also, you should be aware that the size difference will effect your speedo accuracy - you will be traveling approximately 1% faster than your speedo reads due to increased tire diameter. Normally, anything within 3% is fine, so you should be okay.

[hoppy6698]

Originally Posted by augerpro

I am considering using the oem all seasons in the winter and PSS in the summer. Kind of hassle to change twice a year, but maybe.

Changing them twice a year isn't that big of a hassle. Look at it as an opportunity to do other under carriage checks. I would check craigslist for local BMW OEM or other wheel/tire combos. I am finding a number of available wheel sets with winter tires locally for less than $500.

I know our brake rotors can cause clearance issues, so I plan to try on new (used) shoes before buying :P