[ska///235i]

Just wanted to see what is middle class here in America. My wife and I both work and have 2 kids (well 1 now, 2nd is due in March), have a decent home (3 bed, 1.5 bath, & 2 garage) and 2 cars. No debts. We live in MA...are we in the middle class?

Not that it matters but I hear this "middle class" thing all the time and Im not sure who is this middle class group they talk about

[NemesisX]

Who's "they"?

[grimlock]

everything between working class and the rich

which is probably between

25-40 to 250-500k /yr depending on your location

i have no idea, just pulling figures out of my ass

or put in terms of purchasing power, that you can afford the things in your society that would make you 'average'.. like a house with mortage, a car, a dog and two kids

[NemesisX]

I googled "middle class" and found this:

http://money.usnews.com/money/person...le-class-today

Hope that helps.

[Nkc]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Just wanted to see what is middle class here in America. My wife and I both work and have 2 kids (well 1 now, 2nd is due in March), have a decent home (3 bed, 1.5 bath, & 2 garage) and 2 cars. No debts. We live in MA...are we in the middle class?

Not that it matters but I hear this "middle class" thing all the time and Im not sure who is this middle class group they talk about

No debts meaning no mortgage either? If not then you're definitely in the middle class category. With what Nemmy provided, it seems middle class is within $25k to $76k. Middle middle would be between $40k to $65k.

And Grimmy, @ $500k, that's definitely not anywhere near middle class anymore.

[ska///235i]

Had this discussion with some friends and we all came to this...

Any working family (paying tax) that do not have Gov support, and your debt to income ratio is not higher than 30% is in the middle class bracket

[nusevad]

I dont really believe in a defined middle class, it really depends on your household income , area you live, your debt to income, etc

You can make 35K a year but live in a low stand of living area like Idaho and be middle class, or you can make 125K a year, live in NYC and be middle class.

[fecurtis]

What's the median household income for the US? I guess that'd be "middle class".

I guess it'd have to factor in median net worth too.

[UncleWede]

I consider myself upper-middle because while I still have to think about it, I can pretty much buy whatever I want, and treat friends/family to dinner without having to count my pennies.

Wife and I both work. Our 30yo son lives in one bedroom, my sister-in-law lives in another, and my 15yo son lives in the 3rd. The previous 2 I would consider lower-middle or even low because they do not have the same freedom I enjoy to make purchases.

[MiddleAgedAl]

National Averages that cover an entire diverse country are meaningless, if you ask me.

Someone could be making what would be the high end of middle class (nationally) , but if they live in Manhattan, their available discretionary income left after paying for shelter alone would mean that dining out would be limited to McDonalds, and they'd have to buy all their clothes at Walmart.

Someone in rural Texas could be making the low end of middle class income (based on NATIONAL averages), and would still be able to afford a much bigger home, and still have more left over after taxes to spend on eating out, buying clothes, driving a newer/nicer car, etc.

[Whostheboss]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

National Averages that cover an entire diverse country are meaningless, if you ask me.

Someone could be making what would be the high end of middle class (nationally) , but if they live in Manhattan, their available discretionary income left after paying for shelter alone would mean that dining out would be limited to McDonalds, and they'd have to buy all their clothes at Walmart.

Someone in rural Texas could be making the low end of middle class income (based on NATIONAL averages), and would still be able to afford a much bigger home, and still have more left over after taxes to spend on eating out, buying clothes, driving a newer/nicer car, etc.

Middle Class :- A person who is not relying on the government for aid but at the same time cannot afford a Ferrari.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

National Averages that cover an entire diverse country are meaningless, if you ask me.

Someone could be making what would be the high end of middle class (nationally) , but if they live in Manhattan, their available discretionary income left after paying for shelter alone would mean that dining out would be limited to McDonalds, and they'd have to buy all their clothes at Walmart.

Someone in rural Texas could be making the low end of middle class income (based on NATIONAL averages), and would still be able to afford a much bigger home, and still have more left over after taxes to spend on eating out, buying clothes, driving a newer/nicer car, etc.

For purposes of this discussion, averages are meaningless period. You'd have to use median, ideally the median income and net worth in your specific area.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

National Averages that cover an entire diverse country are meaningless, if you ask me.

Someone could be making what would be the high end of middle class (nationally) , but if they live in Manhattan, their available discretionary income left after paying for shelter alone would mean that dining out would be limited to McDonalds, and they'd have to buy all their clothes at Walmart.

Someone in rural Texas could be making the low end of middle class income (based on NATIONAL averages), and would still be able to afford a much bigger home, and still have more left over after taxes to spend on eating out, buying clothes, driving a newer/nicer car, etc.

Originally Posted by Whostheboss

Middle Class :- A person who is not relying on the government for aid but at the same time cannot afford a Ferrari.

Winner!

I would also like to add life style as well.
I go to post office/UPS/FedEx-Kinkos every day for my online business. Parking lot is right next to the door, and I can enjoy a Starbucks coffee right afterward. If I was living in Los Angeles, it would be a 2 person job (one waiting and driving around till I am done sending package).

Why not let them pick up the package in LA? Those package will be stolen by 12pm on a front porch.

I won't even mention about playing racquetball, tennis, or even golf compare to Los Angeles to where I live at.

Lastly, traffic and speed limit are one of the factor.

[FC4]

If you look at price tags or ask how much something costs, you're middle-class.

[grimlock]

[ShopVac]

Originally Posted by Whostheboss

Middle Class :- A person who is not relying on the government for aid but at the same time cannot afford a Ferrari.

+

That statement is probably the best way to put it.

[kevinbahnz]

Originally Posted by grimlock

I thought that he was broke or bankrupt right around that time.

[michaelthepsycho]

Take all the net worth of individuals and split into 100%; if you're between 25 and 75.

Or if you want to use stats, within one SD of median.

For reference, I think 1% starts at roughly 2.1MM

Plenty of middle-class people can afford Ferraris.

[Joekerr]

Middle class is something below Nkc's income.

Yes, I'm jealous of his recent Gallardo purchase.

[TrevorM3]

10000000000 dollars.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by michaelthepsycho

Take all the net worth of individuals and split into 100%; if you're between 25 and 75.

Or if you want to use stats, within one SD of median.

For reference, I think 1% starts at roughly 2.1MM

Plenty of middle-class people can afford Ferraris.

Try more like $8 million -

The Times had estimated the threshold for being in the top 1 percent in household income at about $380,000, 7.5 times median household income, using census data from 2008 through 2010. But for net worth, the 1 percent threshold for net worth in the Fed data was nearly $8.4 million, or 69 times the median household’s net holdings of $121,000.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...t-income/?_r=0

$2.1 million is nowhere near top 1% territory. 2.1M is more like the median net worth of the top 10% or the threshold value to just barely sneak into the top 5%.

You'll also see figures of $6.8 million floating around, but that data is 2 years old.

Again, $8.4 million is the threshold to just barely sneak into the category for top 1% net worth. The median net worth of the top 1% (or, equivalently, the threshold for top 0.5% net worth) is even higher.


Edit: Here's a summary table for net worth and income thresholds for 2012 referencing the $6.8 million I was talking about -

[NemesisX]

Oh, here's a slightly more sophisticated table for income thresholds that delineates between wage income and capital gains, but the data is from 2007 -



It provides thresholds for the top .1% and top .01%, though, which is something that most other sources don't do.