[capt_slow]

Hi all, I'm just seeking advice on an issue I'm having with my landlord.

Back in July 2013, I signed a 1-year lease for my condo in MN. When the lease expired in July 2014, the landlord never approached me to renew or terminate my lease. Since then I have been paying month-to-month without any written contract and the original lease does not have a automatic renewal/termination clause.

The landlord and I agreed over the phone to extend/renew the lease to April 2015 back in Sept, but no lease or contract was signed and I'm still paying month-to-month.

4 days ago, I was offered and accepted a job in CA and promptly gave in my notice to my landlord. It looks like he's sticking with the verbal agreement, expecting me to pay till April or find a new tenant. He also sent me a intimidating and threatening e-mail about the consequences of breach-of-contract, citing "502.04 action". He may be blowing smoke since that particular law has been repealed.

I've been researching this myself and it looks like MN504B.135 says I need to give 1-month. Still means I need to pay Feb rent, but such is life.

With that story out of the way, what should I do?

[M_Six]

Most leases I've seen (which isn't many) have a relocation clause for just this reason. Do you still have your original lease?

[gtron]

i would pay a small fee of a few hundred to an attorney and forward his email to your attorney. they'll take it from there and more than likely you'll be out of there in no time with no stress.

[NEFARIOUS]

NOTE: This is coming from a Californian layman (but has successfully eaten bad landlords alive in court); Minnesota laws may be different.

Should've just kept the lease intact; it would legally be grandfathered as a month-to-month or at will.

If there is no termination clause, you are not legally obligated to let him know that you are moving, and the contract is considered to be at will. He cannot bring this to court claiming that you owe him anything since you will have vacated the property, which is pointless to collect rent any further and he may even wind up in trouble for extortion for trying to collect that rent or file an eviction to you after you are able to prove that you vacated the premises... Unless you meant something different by termination clause.

It'd be different if it said "30 days notice before vacating the premises" or "all rents due until end of term" or something of that nature... But even if you are stuck paying the amount, you have the right to prorate your rent from the day you moved to the de facto 30th day from that date (e.g. if you moved today on Jan 11, you are only obligated to pay until Feb 10).

[954Stealth]

Also, read up on the eviction laws and process serving in your county/State. Typically there is a very very specific order of escalation and notification that needs to happen before the landlord can seek a civil judgment for monies owed

[capt_slow]

Originally Posted by NEFARIOUS

NOTE: This is coming from a Californian layman (but has successfully eaten bad landlords alive in court); Minnesota laws may be different.

Should've just kept the lease intact; it would legally be grandfathered as a month-to-month or at will.

If there is no termination clause, you are not legally obligated to let him know that you are moving, and the contract is considered to be at will. He cannot bring this to court claiming that you owe him anything since you will have vacated the property, which is pointless to collect rent any further and he may even wind up in trouble for extortion for trying to collect that rent or file an eviction to you after you are able to prove that you vacated the premises... Unless you meant something different by termination clause.

It'd be different if it said "30 days notice before vacating the premises" or "all rents due until end of term" or something of that nature... But even if you are stuck paying the amount, you have the right to prorate your rent from the day you moved to the de facto 30th day from that date (e.g. if you moved today on Jan 11, you are only obligated to pay until Feb 10).

MN tenancy laws for month-to-month require notice before the final rental period starts. So when I gave notice, my final day is technically Feb 28 instead of Jan 31.

http://www.ag.state.mn.us/Consumer/Handbooks/LT/LT3.asp

The original lease has a termination clause, but I would hope that is no longer applicable since the lease has expired. The landlord's argument is that while the tenancy is month-to-month, the terms of the original lease are still valid.

Originally Posted by Expired lease

NOTICE OF TERMINATION
Tenant must give Owners a written 60-day notice of termination for departure in accordance with the terms of lease agreement, before vacating premises.

[Jamaro]

A verbal contract is still a contract. That said if it ends up being litigated you never agreed to anything verbally.

Absent any written contract, month to month applies. You need to give two months notice (depends on your state), before vacating. Otherwise LL can hold some or all of your security deposit.

[capt_slow]

I'll try to clarify what happened as part of the "verbal agreement". I told my landlord that I intended to extend/renew the lease till March (or April, I forgot) and that we should sign a lease. Obviously, that last part never happened. Probably wont make much difference, but just kinda funny since this would be a good reason to get everything in writing and why verbal agreements should never be held up.

On a related note...
For month-to-month (at-will) tenancies, MN law says I need to give notice before the start of the final rental period (Feb 1). However, the expired lease required 60-days. Which would be correct?

[wrickem]

I've been a landlord for years with multiple rentals and would never make somebody stay against their will even with a lease. I usually have 15 days that any unit is un rented between tenants so I can do necessary repairs and painting, that's just one of the things that should be in any rental equation and a loss to the landlord. If he's a good landlord, he'll start showing the apartment after you and him agree on the date that you'll be vacating. Be agreeable about letting people in to see it. If you end up in court, he'd have to prove that you had a "verbal" agreement which if you deny, he's going to be hard pressed to prove it most laws favor tenants. It doesn't have to be ugly. Good luck!

[capt_slow]

Originally Posted by wrickem

I've been a landlord for years with multiple rentals and would never make somebody stay against their will even with a lease. I usually have 15 days that any unit is un rented between tenants so I can do necessary repairs and painting, that's just one of the things that should be in any rental equation and a loss to the landlord. If he's a good landlord, he'll start showing the apartment after you and him agree on the date that you'll be vacating. Be agreeable about letting people in to see it. If you end up in court, he'd have to prove that you had a "verbal" agreement which if you deny, he's going to be hard pressed to prove it most laws favor tenants. It doesn't have to be ugly. Good luck!

Nice to have a different perspective in the discussion.

Both of us are OK with the idea of finding the replacement tenant. However, he is adamant that I am responsible for rent after Feb. He is posting ads as well as I, and I'm OK with showing as long as I have some decent advance notice (requested 24 hrs).

The problem on that front is that he is being very difficult regarding the rent, the unit is already overpriced compared to units next door and he raised the rent for the ad. Also, most people in MN dont want to move in the middle of winter anyway.

[wrickem]

Originally Posted by capt_slow

Nice to have a different perspective in the discussion.

Both of us are OK with the idea of finding the replacement tenant. However, he is adamant that I am responsible for rent after Feb. He is posting ads as well as I, and I'm OK with showing as long as I have some decent advance notice (requested 24 hrs).

The problem on that front is that he is being very difficult regarding the rent, the unit is already overpriced compared to units next door and he raised the rent for the ad. Also, most people in MN dont want to move in the middle of winter anyway.

I'll tell you this, if I showed up in a NJ court stating "I had a verbal agreement" and the tenant denied it, they would win for sure. Most leases will state that if they are not renewed that they go month to month and either party can cancel with xx (I use 45) days notice. Check your written lease. One of the things a smart landlord will do is price competitively so their properties don't sit vacant for too long, hopefully he'll wise up.

[Jamaro]

Also you have to realize this is a common negotiation tactic. My gut feeling is the LL is looking to hold some or all of the security deposit.

[capt_slow]

Originally Posted by wrickem

I'll tell you this, if I showed up in a NJ court stating "I had a verbal agreement" and the tenant denied it, they would win for sure. Most leases will state that if they are not renewed that they go month to month and either party can cancel with xx (I use 45) days notice. Check your written lease. One of the things a smart landlord will do is price competitively so their properties don't sit vacant for too long, hopefully he'll wise up.

I just reviewed the lease. There is no explicit mention on what happens after the it expires.

To think the man was going to try and sell the condo to me. I dont think he will lower the asking rent. It's slightly cheaper than the apartments nearby, but worlds more expensive than the two units next door (as in I share a wall with them!). Being a real estate agent, he claims to understand the market better.

[wrickem]

Originally Posted by capt_slow

I just reviewed the lease. There is no explicit mention on what happens after the it expires.

To think the man was going to try and sell the condo to me. I dont think he will lower the asking rent. It's slightly cheaper than the apartments nearby, but worlds more expensive than the two units next door (as in I share a wall with them!). Being a real estate agent, he claims to understand the market better.

I wouldn't worry too much about it then. Just notify him in writing on when you intend to move out and be good about showing the unit. Then move out and see what he does and deal with it then.

It's a good thing your lease to buy didn't work out (they usually don't though, which is why I'd never do one) otherwise you'd be looking for renters now

[capt_slow]

Originally Posted by wrickem

I wouldn't worry too much about it then. Just notify him in writing on when you intend to move out and be good about showing the unit. Then move out and see what he does and deal with it then.

That's the feedback I'm getting from lawyers I'm calling. Legal fees alone cost way more than 2-months of rent, for either side.

[capt_slow]

The feedback from the lawyers I talked to was pretty consistent after showing them the lease and emails:

• The landlord is definitely self-lawyering since the threatening e-mails used repealed laws and had improper use of legal terms
• The expired lease was poorly written and clearly not reviewed by a professional before being used
• The landlord inadvertently confirmed my month-to-month status via email, so state-law of 30-days notice is applicable
• The landlord is behaving unprofessionally, and even more so considering he is a real estate agent

That said, it seems like there is some miscommunication on my part about paying Feb rent and I sent over email to clarify that while I'm moving out early, I'm still paying Feb rent per state-law. We'll see how he responds.

I did have a prospective tenant respond to my Craigslist ad, but she was a no-show. Seriously?! If you agree to meet at a time and a place and change your mind, at least give the courtesy to cancel.