[fast_lap28]

So I decided to get me a baseline today. This is the first dyno on a Dyno Dynamics for my 335 running 93 octane. Temps around 50 degrees F.

Let's see you dyno interpreters what you think so I am opened to comments...included are HP/TQ and Air/Fuel sheets.

Lets keep this open to only those experiences with dyno'ing stock 335's...I have read many posts and seems that whp is around 245 - 265? You guys think I'm on par with other stockers out there? Do HP/TQ gains seem fair here? Just wanted to get some feedback on others who have done same.

I plan on dyno'ing again later in coming months, probably after I get Dinan flash (I think, not sure yet).

Thnx

[Driver72]

250 rwhp on a Dyno Dynamics is probably about right.

From what I've heard, they read lower than Dynojets, and on par with Mustang dynos.

My 335i Sedan dynoed 266 rwhp stock on a Dynojet (auto tranny) and
My 335i Coupe dynoed 250.9 rwhp stock on a Mustang Dyno (auto tranny).

So I'd say you are right where you should be.

But to be honest, unless someone else has dynoed on that exact same dyno under similiar conditions, it's pretty hard to compare dyno results.

Now the key is when you get the Dinan Flash (if you decide to get that) you want to dyno on that same dyno when weather conditions are pretty close to the same as you did on your baseline.

Enjoy

[scalbert]

I concur, the DynoDynamics will read lower.

I ran my old GIAC chip only B5 S4 on a DD and made 248 WHP. With a Borla exhaust and downpipes I made 305 WHP on a Dynojet. The DP's and Exhaust accounted for about 25 - 30 WHP. The rest was the the different dyno type.

[fast_lap28]

Originally Posted by Driver72

250 rwhp on a Dyno Dynamics is probably about right.

From what I've heard, they read lower than Dynojets, and on par with Mustang dynos.

My 335i Sedan dynoed 266 rwhp stock on a Dynojet (auto tranny) and
My 335i Coupe dynoed 250.9 rwhp stock on a Mustang Dyno (auto tranny).

So I'd say you are right where you should be.

But to be honest, unless someone else has dynoed on that exact same dyno under similiar conditions, it's pretty hard to compare dyno results.

Now the key is when you get the Dinan Flash (if you decide to get that) you want to dyno on that same dyno when weather conditions are pretty close to the same as you did on your baseline.

Enjoy

thanks Driver72 for your comment, this is what I was hoping to find. I keep hearing that Dyno Dynamics are on par and I get what you say to keep it consistant with the next run. another question, if we are really at 250 - 260 whp stock, what are the numbers at crank or flywheel in this case? just curious on stock numbers again for these....

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by fast_lap28

question, if we are really at 250 - 260 whp stock, what are the numbers at crank or flywheel in this case? just curious on stock numbers again for these....

Do you have a 6MT or 6AT?

[Driver72]

I would say in reality our cars have
310-315 hp at the crank.

Figure this:
6MT cars will lose about 15% to the drivetrain
6AT cars will lose about 18% to the drivetrain.

310 - 15% = 263.5 rwhp
310 - 18% = 254.2 rwhp

Each car will be different based on gas quality, break in, conditions, etc etc.
So on the results above, figure +/- 10 rwhp from car to car.
And no one really ever knows exact drivetrain losses, but 15-16% is standard for manuals and ~18% is standard for autos on RWD cars.

[fast_lap28]

my bad....forgot.

6MT

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Driver72

I would say in reality our cars have
310-315 hp at the crank.

Figure this:
6MT cars will lose about 15% to the drivetrain
6AT cars will lose about 18% to the drivetrain.

310 - 15% = 263.5 rwhp
310 - 18% = 254.2 rwhp

I forgot who mentioned that the BMW published drivetrain loss numbers are 13% for the 6MT and 15% for the 6AT. Not sure about the accuracy though but this was claimed to be from BMW.

[hotrod2448]

Well, there were a few of us with 335's there this same day and I don't know how much stock I'd put in these numbers.

My V2 equipped car set at default 90% only made 265hp and one of the other guys with V2 at 94%, eisenmann, a mix of 93/100 octane in the tank made 300. He had dyno'd there before and made around 20 hp (might have been more) more without V2 with slightly warmer weather.

The curves all looked good but, the numbers (on everything I saw not just my car) just didn't seem right even by DynoDynamics standards.

All I can say Marco, is the shape of the curves look right for a stock 335 and that as long as you go back to the same place to dyno from here out you should be fine to use this as a baseline. The fact that the dyno says one of the guys lost 20hp from last time he ran with less mods would concern me though.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by scalbert

I forgot who mentioned that the BMW published drivetrain loss numbers are 13% for the 6MT and 15% for the 6AT. Not sure about the accuracy though but this was claimed to be from BMW.

That could be.
If you take those percentages and use their 300 hp claimed power rating, you get rwhp figures similiar to those I posted using 310 crank hp and higher drivetrain losses.

I'd tend to believe the engine has more than 300 hp though.
As the 333 hp e46 M3 is only marginally faster in accelerating up to 100 mph, with either manual or SMG tranny.
If it truly had 33 hp more from the crank and it's super fast SMG tranny it should be decently faster to 100 mph than a 335i, and in fact it's not.

So BMW is either overrating the e46 M3's power by a bit (doubtful) or underrating the 335i's power by a bit (more likely based on the 335i's acceleration abilities compared to other 300 hp car's that weigh similiarly or even less).

The 335i with supposedly 300 hp will out accelerate a 350Z with 306 hp and the 350Z is similiar in weight.

Who knows really, but I'd still say the 335i engine is 310-315 crank hp.

[fast_lap28]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

Well, there were a few of us with 335's there this same day and I don't know how much stock I'd put in these numbers.

My V2 equipped car set at default 90% only made 265hp and one of the other guys with V2 at 94%, eisenmann, a mix of 93/100 octane in the tank made 300. He had dyno'd there before and made around 20 hp (might have been more) more without V2 with slightly warmer weather.

The curves all looked good but, the numbers (on everything I saw not just my car) just didn't seem right even by DynoDynamics standards.

All I can say Marco, is the shape of the curves look right for a stock 335 and that as long as you go back to the same place to dyno from here out you should be fine to use this as a baseline. The fact that the dyno says one of the guys lost 20hp from last time he ran with less mods would concern me though.

Kyle, it was great meeting you and the rest of the guys out there today! Glad to meet new people and especially those car enthusiast like you. Great to share the info and look forward to meeting up next go round

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by fast_lap28

Kyle, it was great meeting you and the rest of the guys out there today! Glad to meet new people and especially those car enthusiast like you. Great to share the info and look forward to meeting up next go round

Yeah, it was good meeting you guys as well. If you ever want to get together shoot me a PM.

[Serjames]

Look like good numbers... Concerned to hear about the experiences of the chaps running V2 though...

On our Dyno Dynamics Dyno day I pulled a 340 ?

SJ

[Dr_Dirt]

Originally Posted by Driver72

I would say in reality our cars have
310-315 hp at the crank.

Figure this:
6MT cars will lose about 15% to the drivetrain
6AT cars will lose about 18% to the drivetrain.

310 - 15% = 263.5 rwhp
310 - 18% = 254.2 rwhp

Each car will be different based on gas quality, break in, conditions, etc etc.
So on the results above, figure +/- 10 rwhp from car to car.
And no one really ever knows exact drivetrain losses, but 15-16% is standard for manuals and ~18% is standard for autos on RWD cars.

Actually there is no need to guess on flywheel horspower and drivetrain losses as DINAN already this work for us, using an engine dyno and then a dynopack setup which eliminates any traction issues between tires and rollers.

Max flywheel hp is 332 @5600 rpms with 296 whp which is ~11% drivetrain loss @ that rpm.

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by Dr_Dirt

Actually there is no need to guess on flywheel horspower and drivetrain losses as DINAN already this work for us, using an engine dyno and then a dynopack setup which eliminates any traction issues between tires and rollers.

Max flywheel hp is 332 @5600 rpms with 296 whp which is ~11% drivetrain loss @ that rpm.

That's an interesting little document.

[Supramano]

if you lose about 15% on manuals and 18% on autos for rwd cars....anyone have an estimate for the awd cars?

[Booster]

First off Marco and Kyle, it was great seeing you both....

I was the other 335 that dyno'd yesterday. I was very disappointed with the results compared to last time.

Here is my first dyno from the summer time (6MT)
-Version 1.45
-Eisenmann Race Exhaust
-93 Octane
-Over 90 degress out


Here is my dyno sheet from yesterday (same dyno, same facility)
-Version 2
-95% torque
-93 octane with 3 gallons on 100 octane
-Eisenmann Race Exhaust
-BMC Air Filter
-MAYBE 50 degrees out

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by Booster

First off Marco and Kyle, it was great seeing you both....

I was the other 335 that dyno'd yesterday. I was very disappointed with the results compared to last time.

Here is my first dyno from the summer time (6MT)
-Version 1.45
-Eisenmann Race Exhaust
-93 Octane
-Over 90 degress out


Here is my dyno sheet from yesterday (same dyno, same facility)
-Version 2
-95% torque
-93 octane with 3 gallons on 100 octane
-Eisenmann Race Exhaust
-BMC Air Filter
-MAYBE 50 degrees out

It looks like your car goes really rich right with V2 right after 5500 RPM. IDK if that's normal or not, I didn't get AFR's with my runs for some reason. I think they had the O2 probe in backwards on my car.

I'm guessing they had to change something with the Dyno since the last time you ran. The only thing that concerns me is Marcos numbers looked right. I wonder if there is something with V2 that isn't happy on really cold days?

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

That's an interesting little document.

I agree.
Wonder how many miles that Dinan car had on it when they dynoed?
332 flywheel hp seems a bit high, as does the 296 rwhp figure.
Also wonder if that was calibrated to the newer SAE standards or the old standard.
I'd think if our engines had 332 crank hp out of it, we wouldn't be seeing ~250 rwhp on Mustang dynos and ~270 rwhp on Dynojets, but a bit higher.


As for my experience with dynos and what I've seen with other dyno results.

FWD cars:
12-13% loss for manuals
14-16% loss for autos

RWD cars:
14-16% for manuals
16-18% for autos

AWD cars:
20-21% for manuals
22-23% for autos

give or take an additional 1-1.5%
Again, it's really hard to nail down "exact" drivetrain loss amounts.
Every car and every transmission is a bit different, some are more efficient than others.

I feel Dinan's test was interesting, but numbers seem to be unusually high in the outcomes and the drivetrain loss unusually low.

As I mentioned earlier, I got 250 rwhp on a Mustang Dyno stock and 266 on a DynoJet stock, with an auto.
If Dinan's manual only lost 11% than the autos would be like 13% I'd only have 288 crank hp on the Mustang Dyno and 306 crank hp on the DynoJet.

It's not an exact science and has caused constant debate since dynos were designed.

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by Driver72

I agree.
Wonder how many miles that Dinan car had on it when they dynoed?
332 flywheel hp seems a bit high, as does the 296 rwhp figure.
Also wonder if that was calibrated to the newer SAE standards or the old standard.
I'd think if our engines had 332 crank hp out of it, we wouldn't be seeing ~250 rwhp on Mustang dynos and ~270 rwhp on Dynojets, but a bit higher.


As for my experience with dynos and what I've seen with other dyno results.

FWD cars:
12-13% loss for manuals
14-16% loss for autos

RWD cars:
14-16% for manuals
16-18% for autos

AWD cars:
20-21% for manuals
22-23% for autos

give or take an additional 1-1.5%
Again, it's really hard to nail down "exact" drivetrain loss amounts.
Every car and every transmission is a bit different, some are more efficient than others.

I feel Dinan's test was interesting, but numbers seem to be unusually high in the outcomes and the drivetrain loss unusually low.

As I mentioned earlier, I got 250 rwhp on a Mustang Dyno stock and 266 on a DynoJet stock, with an auto.
If Dinan's manual only lost 11% than the autos would be like 13% I'd only have 288 crank hp on the Mustang Dyno and 306 crank hp on the DynoJet.

It's not an exact science and has caused constant debate since dynos were designed.

Every time drivetrain loss comes up I quote Stan from Dinan because it seems as if everyone else says drivetrain loss is constant but according to him it is not...

Originally Posted by stan@dinan

The percentage of drivetrain loss has been a talking point among tuners and the numbers have been fluctuating from 10% to over 17%. What most tuners do not know is that drivetrain loss is not a constant factor; it is determined by the frictional losses throughout the engine and drivetrain which differs throughout the entire rev range. As the car goes faster (MPH goes up on the speedo) the gears, bearings and seals are moving at a higher speed and friction increases Dinan has an in house engine and chassis dyno., with these two tools they have been able to log the drivetrain loss to an accuracy of 1%. The dyno HP and TRQ numbers are the closest to real world conditions as you can find.

[Mr. 5]

Realy cool man.
This is just the start.

Keep going back to the same dyno after the mods that you.
Try not to compare your dynos with others since all dynos read differently.
The best thing to do is to compare the newer dynos with the newer mods to the older ones that you've done. This is pretty much the only comparison that makes sense to do.

[fast_lap28]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Realy cool man.
This is just the start.

Keep going back to the same dyno after the mods that you.
Try not to compare your dynos with others since all dynos read differently.
The best thing to do is to compare the newer dynos with the newer mods to the older ones that you've done. This is pretty much the only comparison that makes sense to do.

Thanks Mr. 5! I will try to keep future tests comparisons on same dyno if possible. Will keep posting with new updates in near future (Dinan)....