[Orb]

I came across these dyno and pressure drop data from Turbo-kits.com. The pressure drop data is very useful in determining how effective this IC would be at lower boost level such as with SSTT, JBS or Dinan Tune (PROcede v2 is going to have larger HP gains) for increased power.

Looks like with cat back exhaust and IC you can gain additional 25-35 WHP.

I would like to see this type of data from the other IC manufactures and you should to. As far as I’m concern they show nothing but a best case scenario for marketing. Spearco is certainly using a very cost effective high performance type core and they might have an edge on everyone else unless the other manufacturer can provide similar pressure drop data.

Going by this data the stock core is at the limits with 14 PSI boost. You don't want more than 1.5 PSI pressure drop.

Orb

[DreX3M]

That's very useful data to have. Definitely more manufacturers should readily publish such information for public consumption.

[kptaylor]

Good stuff, thanks!

[Supramano]

got my spearco coming on tuesday...cant wait for it...took me a while to choose an intercooler....i did much research and spearco was the only one i found to not play the bs games and show real numbers...thats what i determinded my choice on....i mean rpi claimed 26 rwhp gain, but i didnt trust that graph. lata

[Black Chili]

I know I had to drop my V2 values DOWN by a couple of points because the Spearco IC was allowing for too much boost- peaks of 15.6-15.8 at 90%.

VS. stock, it will still show some heat soak after repeated punishing (0-120+, hard stop, 0-100+, hard stop- several times in a row), but FAR less than the stock IC and complete recovery is VERY fast. Throttle response is better too- turbo spool seemed quicker.

I think in daily driving, you spool up the scrolls all the time, just not to a very high pressure- juice it a couple times and the stock IC just doesn't have time to cool down in all the way during typical city driving. The Spearco is back to stone cold in a few seconds and less pressure drop makes life easier for the turbos.

[Supramano]

Originally Posted by Graphite Shark

I know I had to drop my V2 values DOWN by a couple of points because the Spearco IC was allowing for too much boost- peaks of 15.6-15.8 at 90%.

VS. stock, it will still show some heat soak after repeated punishing (0-120+, hard stop, 0-100+, hard stop- several times in a row), but FAR less than the stock IC and complete recovery is VERY fast. Throttle response is better too- turbo spool seemed quicker.

I think in daily driving, you spool up the scrolls all the time, just not to a very high pressure- juice it a couple times and the stock IC just doesn't have time to cool down in all the way during typical city driving. The Spearco is back to stone cold in a few seconds and less pressure drop makes life easier for the turbos.

I thought the ic was supposed to cause lower boost pressure...and that youd be able to up to boost and feel safer about it..."i.e. your FMIC is undoubtely dropping your intake temps and, thereby, your egt's...so you should be able to bring the boost up some more safely to make even more power" as wriiten by boosted305 in the aa intercooler thread by mr.5

Is this true or am i gonna have to drop my torque values when the ic is installed. I was under the assumptions that the boost pressure wouuld drop and i would be able to raise the torque values back up to compensate and this pressure will now be cooler and denser air, resulting in higher hp numbers at the same boost levels? am i way off base here?

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by Supramano

I thought the ic was supposed to cause lower boost pressure...and that youd be able to up to boost and feel safer about it..."i.e. your FMIC is undoubtely dropping your intake temps and, thereby, your egt's...so you should be able to bring the boost up some more safely to make even more power" as wriiten by boosted305 in the aa intercooler thread by mr.5

Is this true or am i gonna have to drop my torque values when the ic is installed. I was under the assumptions that the boost pressure wouuld drop and i would be able to raise the torque values back up to compensate and this pressure will now be cooler and denser air, resulting in higher hp numbers at the same boost levels? am i way off base here?

I believe you are correct.
By having a better IC, the boost values should drop instead of rise. Boost values should rise only if the air intake temps rise.

[DrewKo]

Psi is psi...if the boost is rising in terms of psi due to the intercooler, you better reduce the torque values to keep psi in an acceptable range for the turbos. My humble opinion.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by Supramano

got my spearco coming on tuesday...cant wait for it...took me a while to choose an intercooler....i did much research and spearco was the only one i found to not play the bs games and show real numbers...thats what i determinded my choice on....i mean rpi claimed 26 rwhp gain, but i didnt trust that graph. lata

It may be RPI and other IC would perform as claimed but they have not disclosed any real useful data. It’s obvious that a good portion of the HP gains are made due to reduced pressure drop.

My guess is the RPI would be 1/3 less in gains based on the bits of data I have seen when compared to the Spearco

Orb

[Sniz]

I know my psi dropped when I put in my intercooler.......lower EGT's equals more power. I ran 350whp approx w/ no other mods than V2 at 12.4psi w/ the V2 set to 94%. Most other people are running high 14.x psi to run the same whp.

So w/ the Helix intercooler my psi actually dropped but my hp stayed up. That is why i'm waiting for Shiv to set up a tune to maximize the hp out of the cooler EGT's my intercooler is allowing.

[sparkyg]

So if the pressure drop across the intercooler is less the manifold pressure will adjusted accordingly and keep the boost at the manifold the same.

If the dp is less across the intercooler the turbo needs to work less to create the same amount of boost. Less dp so the turbo rpm is lower for an equivalent amount of boost.

Isn't the boost control pressure controlled at the manifold.

But this then means you can run higher boost at the turbo since the turbo has a lower rpm and can run in its safe area as compared to stock.

Comments?

[DrewKo]

Originally Posted by sparkyg

So if the pressure drop across the intercooler is less the manifold pressure will adjusted accordingly and keep the boost at the manifold the same.

If the dp is less across the intercooler the turbo needs to work less to create the same amount of boost. Less dp so the turbo rpm is lower for an equivalent amount of boost.

Isn't the boost control pressure controlled at the manifold.

But this then means you can run higher boost at the turbo since the turbo has a lower rpm and can run in its safe area as compared to stock.

Comments?

I'm not an expert, but I don't think all of your assumptions above are correct. I was under the assumption that the boost pressure would drop from use of an intercooler along with creating cooler and denser air, resulting in higher hp numbers at the same psi levels. The amount that the turbo is working is measured by psi, and if the psi drops, the turbo is spinning less. There is less boost generated by the turbo as a result, but because of the cooler, denser air generated by the intercooler, the hp will be the same. Thus, your turbo is working less, generating less boost, but your hp is the same. If, however, you adjust boost or psi upwards, your turbo then will be working harder. You cannot run "higher" psi or boost just because you have an intercooler. Your turbo is designed to handle only a certain amount of psi--there are limits and an intercooler won't change that. Thus, as you approach 15 (or whatever the number is for our cars) psi, whether or not you have an intercooler, you are getting close to the safe limits of the turbo. The higher the boost, or psi, the closer you get to the safe limits of the turbo irrespective of whether you have an intercooler. The intercooler simply reduces temps and pressure and adjusts air quality so that the hp can run higher at a certain level of boost or psi. For example, the 344 hp at 14 psi may equate to 344 hp at 12.5 psi bec. of the addition of the intercooler. This is what I have learned from reading the posts on this site, so it if it is incorrect, i apologize in advance.

[sparkyg]

Yeah, your right on the stock hp of the car. The boost will be reduced. On a stock ECU.

My point is what is the limiting factor of the turbo? Is it absolute pressure output, RPM of the turbo, or something else? You are assuming it is pressure, and you might be right but from the Dinan postings they were limiting the turbo output due to RPM, not boost pressure. The high RPM reduces the life of the turbo.

The higher RPM was naturally linked to increased boost output. But if you reduce the total pressure drop of the system then you should be able to improve turbo output, hence boost w/o higher turbo RPM.

All of the performance gains on the intercooler must be in hand with some type of non-stock increased boost ECU program or piggyback.

Otherwise a intercooler will really not got you any more hp/torque.

These assumptions are all based on the ECU not trying to maintain stock output. If there are other engine managment issues with higher boost then all gains may be out the window.

I don't know enough about the engine management system.

[scalbert]

There is no one single answer to whether more or less boost would be run.

* If the system is load based and a MAF, there may be less boost due to the cooler air.

* If load based and speed density is used, as with the N54, the cooler air may cause a drop in boost. However, if a desired boost control value duty cycle is specified based on inputs, and not just a boost target (fine within a certain range), boost could increase due to the lower pressure drop.

* If it is EBC controlled and based on manifold pressure, you will get the same boost.

* If a MBC is used and referenced from the compressor, boost will increase some.

* If a MBC is used and referenced at the manifold, pressure will be the same.

In other words, there is no one simple answer.

[jam0321]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I believe you are correct.
By having a better IC, the boost values should drop instead of rise. Boost values should rise only if the air intake temps rise.

the Spearco IC is more efficient and has less boost drop compared to the stock IC. That is why he had to lower his UT settings.

Some other manufactures will have more pressure drop compared to stock in which case you would have to raise your UT settings. Not the case for the super efficient Spearco unit.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by jam0321

the Spearco IC is more efficient and has less boost drop compared to the stock IC. That is why he had to lower his UT settings.

Some other manufactures will have more pressure drop compared to stock in which case you would have to raise your UT settings. Not the case for the super efficient Spearco unit.

Can you verify the data in the first post if from Spearco? It is nice to see that this is an effective upgrade form even stock cars which I can't see many other vendors are going to be able to say the same. Is it true that Spearco will no longer sell this model to the public, and if so, is Dinan going to repackage it so there no cutting which I really hate.

For others, the following link give at least give you a very full overview on how an IC works: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html

Orb

[jam0321]

the data was taken from our dyno and computers at Turbonetics (parent company of Spearco for those who don't know). The test car was equipped with an RD Sport Black Box so these numbers should be replicated with PROcede V1.47 and XEDE units.

and yes, Turbonetics will no longer be selling these Intercoolers to the public. I'm waiting for my boss to let me if I can divulge more info about that...
There are, however, a few Spearco vendors that still have some of these units in stock. I can help anyone find one, just PM me.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by jam0321

the data was taken from our dyno and computers at Turbonetics (parent company of Spearco for those who don't know). The test car was equipped with an RD Sport Black Box so these numbers should be replicated with PROcede V1.47 and XEDE units.

and yes, Turbonetics will no longer be selling these Intercoolers to the public. I'm waiting for my boss to let me if I can divulge more info about that...
There are, however, a few Spearco vendors that still have some of these units in stock. I can help anyone find one, just PM me.

Please do spill all the details if you can. It’s a done deal for me but would like to know if the design is going to be changed slightly and repackaged or just the same unit with Dinan label and certainly over priced.

Orb

[jam0321]

will do...

[down4it]

Originally Posted by jam0321

the data was taken from our dyno and computers at Turbonetics (parent company of Spearco for those who don't know). The test car was equipped with an RD Sport Black Box so these numbers should be replicated with PROcede V1.47 and XEDE units.

and yes, Turbonetics will no longer be selling these Intercoolers to the public. I'm waiting for my boss to let me if I can divulge more info about that...
There are, however, a few Spearco vendors that still have some of these units in stock. I can help anyone find one, just PM me.

So glad i got one when i did

[DrewKo]

Originally Posted by Orb

For others, the following link give at least give you a very full overview on how an IC works: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html

Orb

Orb, that's a great article. i read the entire article and it discusses all of which we are questioning in this thread. It actually answers a few of the questions here, but trying to restate those answers would require too much typing. Reading the article is well worth the effort.

[all8up]

Originally Posted by Sniz

I know my psi dropped when I put in my intercooler.......lower EGT's equals more power. I ran 350whp approx w/ no other mods than V2 at 12.4psi w/ the V2 set to 94%. Most other people are running high 14.x psi to run the same whp.

So w/ the Helix intercooler my psi actually dropped but my hp stayed up. That is why i'm waiting for Shiv to set up a tune to maximize the hp out of the cooler EGT's my intercooler is allowing.

Are you certain you meant to say EGT instead of IC outlet temps? Correct me if I am wrong, but an IC if anything will raise EGT in most applications (with all things being equal) since you are bringing cooler air (which is more dense) and you are using the same amount of fuel for a greater volume of air = higher heat in the combustion chambers (higher EGT). I had several EGT sensors in my exhaust manifold on my previous turbo cars and I witnessed this first hand when I either implemented a new IC,C02 spray, or even cooler outside temps.

The benefits of a good IC is typically less pressure drop (so your turbos do not work as hard) and increased detonation prevention (therefore you can run a more aggressive tune).