[OC Guy]

I heard they will release something similar but much better from a friend that has hookups with an Audison dealer. All he said is you'll have full control over everything. Thinking about upgrading my speakers/amp, so I'll post details as I get them.

[1WickedE90]

Love Audison amps, my Dad has one on his E-class MB. Look forward to your report on their version of the Clean Sweep

[VP Electricity]

Interested as well. Did not see it in their CES booth... maybe I should have looked harder.

Clean Sweep and 360 work pretty well - don't find gaping issues with either. More, what I find is installers and non-installers who don't really know enough about audio electrical to know what should work when.

If the CS had another set of inputs it could be better.

I think the attenuation should be switchable in or out. But then the person moving the switch would need more clues...

[OC Guy]

Think I found it:

# Probably of most interest at Elettromedia's stand was the new Audison THESIS components which are set to make BIG waves.

The new THESIS line up has three destinctly new additions
# bit one (processor) which will give products such as Audio Control and Rockfords 360 some REAL competition. Full specs and pricing will be released closer to the release date, suffice to say the unit interfaces with your laptop to do some truely wicked tricks not only as a factory converter but also as a front end control for the new amplifiers.
# The Thesis has been extended to include 3 new amplifiers at a slightly lower spec than the current model but well above the specs of any VRx, the new two & four channel and monoblock models will incorperate computer set up with electronic security and setup.
# Thesis Speakers were possibly the best kept secret - the new speakers will feature, a mid bass, mid range, tweeter and 10" sub all with a see through dustcap that is functional not just cosmetic.

The Bit One processor


The other stuff:

[OC Guy]

Price said to be for the tweets/mid/midbass combo = retail price USD3,500
- One bit processor = retail price USD650 - therefore for the price I believe it will be much more appealing than the 3Sixty.2(USD699) or the Clean Sweep combo (USD500)

My friend said it should be out in a month or so.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by OC 335i

Price said to be for the tweets/mid/midbass combo = retail price USD3,500
- One bit processor = retail price USD650 - therefore for the price I believe it will be much more appealing than the 3Sixty.2(USD699) or the Clean Sweep combo (USD500)

My friend said it should be out in a month or so.

Street price of the 3SIXTY is around $300 for the .1 and $420 for the .2 (Authorized dealer). The Cleansweep's is around $300...

[VP Electricity]

Thanks, OC. I totally missed that one. The Thesis amp is $6K, so I'm pleased to hear they're stretching the line south a bit.

Technic, MSRP on the 360.2 is $600. If the 12V market right now weren't frigging terrifying slow, no one would give it away at $420. The audison at $650 MSRP should be competitive with a $600 MSRP 360.2 on the street.

And he's right. I know you've used one, Technic, and I've installed a few. The 360.2 is not bad. It's got some advantages over the CS, which Rockford acts like are the be-all and end-all (of course, JL was first, so 2nd ought to have some more capabilities, right) and since the entire category has been slower than we in the industry thought, it looks like no one has nailed it.

But selling a Rockford to someone who wants fidelity can be challenging.

I'm rethinking my plan now for my E91. The Zapco I was going to use for integration uses RCA in with common grounds, so I would need some other means of interfacing with the MOST amp's speaker outs anyway.

I will need to find out if this thing will sum.

[OC Guy]

Originally Posted by Technic

Street price of the 3SIXTY is around $300 for the .1 and $420 for the .2 (Authorized dealer). The Cleansweep's is around $300...

Thanks for the info, that was a cnp of someone else.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Thanks, OC. I totally missed that one. The Thesis amp is $6K, so I'm pleased to hear they're stretching the line south a bit.

Technic, MSRP on the 360.2 is $600. If the 12V market right now weren't frigging terrifying slow, no one would give it away at $420. The audison at $650 MSRP should be competitive with a $600 MSRP 360.2 on the street.

And he's right. I know you've used one, Technic, and I've installed a few. The 360.2 is not bad. It's got some advantages over the CS, which Rockford acts like are the be-all and end-all (of course, JL was first, so 2nd ought to have some more capabilities, right) and since the entire category has been slower than we in the industry thought, it looks like no one has nailed it.

But selling a Rockford to someone who wants fidelity can be challenging.

I'm rethinking my plan now for my E91. The Zapco I was going to use for integration uses RCA in with common grounds, so I would need some other means of interfacing with the MOST amp's speaker outs anyway.

I will need to find out if this thing will sum.

I think that the main problem of all these OEM integration processors is that, for them to be integrated into OEM HU, they need something else done before integrating these processors into the OEM units.

That "something else" most of the time requires professional installation or at least a level of expertise that Joe Corolla or Susan Camaro does not have, because you really need to know your OEM audio system insides to know where to tap.

Blaupunkt simply solved that problem -at least in Europe- with their line of amps with their own line of OEM harnesses for OEM HU. Simply unplug your OEM HU, plug their harness, plug their amp to your OEM HU, and plug everything back together and that's it.

I followed that concept with my own plug 'n play OEM harness for my GTI to integrate a Audiocontrol DQXS to a OEM Nav. So everything is already wired in that harness, even power and remote so I don't need to run any other wiring to it. And no OEM wiring was cut or tapped, so it is 100% reversible.

If what you call "the industry" can come up with something like that, I think that they will sell more of these processors at higher prices that the street is willing to pay right now. They need to work with OEM manufacturers and get licenses for their proprietary OEM connectors... I think that they are going to get their money back several times from the extra cost of those licenses by selling more units as plug 'n play.

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by Technic

They need to work with OEM manufacturers and get licenses for their proprietary OEM connectors...

Won't ever happen .

They can knock them off, though.

You think the majority of sales are to DIY guys or to install shops?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Won't ever happen .

They can knock them off, though.

You think the majority of sales are to DIY guys or to install shops?

Well, Blaupunkt did, so in fact it happened.

The important issue is not if the majority of sales of these processors are to DIY guys or install shops, is selling the suckers to begin with. If the whole idea is "OEM integration" then why it is not integrated?

These manufacturers don't have to have harnesses for all cars, but at least start with the popular cars: pick ups, SUV's, Civics, VW's. They can even start with those vehicles that harnesses are already available, which are plenty out there.

Just a thought...

[de.abeja]

what does this thing do? (sorry car-audio noob)

[VP Electricity]

The makers don't explain that very well.

OEM audio systems used to be very similar to aftermarket systems, in that the signal that comes to the speakers used to be perfectly even from note to note and frequency to frequency.

Any notes emphasized or attenuated were the fault of the speakers themselves - their electromechanical tendencies - rather than any deviations in the electrical signal driving the speakers.

Then Bose popularized the idea of using processing to compensate for the acoustics of the vehicle - and, less publicly, the faults of the low-cost speakers used - to make a better-sounding system without using more-expensive speakers.

This approach is what is now used by Bose, Boston Acoustics, and the Harman axis of feeble (JBL/Infinity/Becker/Logic 7/Mark Levinson).

This is important to us because?

Because we can't readily change the indash source unit in an E90.

Because unlike E36/E46/E39/etc, many E90s use a fiber optic digital cable between the indash head unit and the amp. We don't have any way to get an analog signal (what aftermarket amps use) BEFORE the amplifier. We need to use the signal output from the amplifier to the speakers.

If we want to install better speakers, we probably don't want to use a signal which has been processed for optimal performance with some other speaker. But that's what comes out of the amp. (The signal out of the amp is also higher in voltage - these processors do provide a "step-down" but there are far lower-cost ways to do that.)

The JL CleanSweep, the RF 360.1 and .2, the Alpine H650, and this Audison, all use a disc with a test signal, analyze the incoming signal using a DSP processor, equalize the signal to reverse the OEM equalization, and then pass a signal to outboard amps that is easily used - proper in voltage, etc.

This approach has flaws: If the OEM system has dramatic dynamic eq processing, the reverse-processing is correct for only ONE volume setting. If the system has high-pass and low-pass channels (like the E90's high-pass mid/tweet channels in the front and the rear and the underseat low-pass subs) you may need to sum those channels together. The JL doesn't support that without an external module, the Alpine may, the Rockford does support that. (If the channels have any phase delay, these modules don't reverse that as far as we know).

Those shortcomings aside, it is known that the E90 sounds much better with some sort of processing reversal than without it. It can be via one of these devices, or via a manual-adjust EQ like a Zapco DSP EQ inside an amp, or otherwise - but it needs something.

I've had good success with Zapco DC multichannel amps strapped under the R deck of the E90 sedan.

[Swagger]

Have you thought about the JBL MS-8? It's designed by Harman and utilizes logic 7. It should be out this Spring. I think it's going to run about $800 but from what I read, it's the next generation of DSP's for guys like me who aren't professional tuners.

I'm using the JL CS and summing module right now and its sounds good but its still a ways off from where I want it.

If you have some time to kill, check out this thread:

http://www.audiogroupforum.com/csfor...ad.php?t=65668

[ubern00b]

So, with this MS-8, would it be worth it at all to try to add a center channel for us non-Logic 7 folks?

[VP Electricity]

Why would I want something that uses Logic 7? I bought a non-Logic 7 system so I didn't have to deal with that crap.

Harman has been talking about that product for literally years now. Maybe they will ship it someday. For a PMM, I would have liked more real info and less fluff... but I guess "ours will sound better" will have to do. I look forward to plugging one into the AP System One.

[SATreatments]

There is a piece that will be released very soon from a company called mobridge. One of the owners actually helped write the MOST software. The piece plugs right into the fiber optic system of the car, and give you either a digital output or RCA output. No summing device is required! With the digital output, you can then plug this directly into the Bit-One, and it will work seamlessly. As an Audison dealer, I am very much looking forward to offering this piece (I also have a Bit-One in my car with the LRx 5.1 amp and can't wait to use it!).

[Technic]

Originally Posted by SATreatments

There is a piece that will be released very soon from a company called mobridge. One of the owners actually helped write the MOST software. The piece plugs right into the fiber optic system of the car, and give you either a digital output or RCA output. No summing device is required! With the digital output, you can then plug this directly into the Bit-One, and it will work seamlessly. As an Audison dealer, I am very much looking forward to offering this piece (I also have a Bit-One in my car with the LRx 5.1 amp and can't wait to use it!).

About damn time... http://www.mobridgeinc.com/news/preamp_ces

[scooby9]

Originally Posted by Technic

About damn time... http://www.mobridgeinc.com/news/preamp_ces

Kind of a noob question... but since this is for MOST hookup, I'm guessing this is only for Logic 7 peeps?

[TMR]

I cant wait for this to come out!!!!!!

[Technic]

Originally Posted by scooby9

Kind of a noob question... but since this is for MOST hookup, I'm guessing this is only for Logic 7 peeps?

Yes... either the OEM HU or the CCC/CIC (iDrive) only outputs in digital if it is programmed for any of the Top HiFi OEM audio systems (Logic7 or Individual Audio). For the standard HiFi system the output is analog.

[datboiroy]

If anyone is interested in the Bitone PM me