[P1]

I have a relatively small home, but a quarter of an acre of land with a detached garage. I would like to ensure that I have proper coverage, no matter whether I'm working inside or outside.

I current have an Airport Extreme 6th Gen in my office, and one in my detached garage. Works well.

I also have a 4th Generation Airport Extreme, and an Airport Express laying around. Would it help if I hooked them all up in order to extend my coverage? Or would this only "confuse" the entire Wi-Fi network?

[Halsifer]

Originally Posted by P1et

I have a relatively small home, but a quarter of an acre of land with a detached garage. I would like to ensure that I have proper coverage, no matter whether I'm working inside or outside.

I current have an Airport Extreme 6th Gen in my office, and one in my detached garage. Works well.

I also have a 4th Generation Airport Extreme, and an Airport Express laying around. Would it help if I hooked them all up in order to extend my coverage? Or would this only "confuse" the entire Wi-Fi network?

Depends how you plan on setting it up.

Back in my old place, our wireless coverage wasn't that great and we also had the entire house wired CAT6. So I bought two of the routers and made one connected to the modem as the main router and had the other one act as an access point. The access point plugged into the wall and wired back to the main router, ensuring a full and strong connection.

You can also set it up as en extender, which is when a router will find a specific Wi-Fi signal and extend the range. I don't like this method as much because I found it not to be as reliable in my scenario.

[Daftasabrush]

Run cat5/6/7 whatever takes your fancy to the places you want signal then put in a bunch of these: https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap/ then you get proper handover while walking around and should be a load more reliable too.

[P1]

Originally Posted by Halsifer

Depends how you plan on setting it up.

Back in my old place, our wireless coverage wasn't that great and we also had the entire house wired CAT6. So I bought two of the routers and made one connected to the modem as the main router and had the other one act as an access point. The access point plugged into the wall and wired back to the main router, ensuring a full and strong connection.

You can also set it up as en extender, which is when a router will find a specific Wi-Fi signal and extend the range. I don't like this method as much because I found it not to be as reliable in my scenario.

Thanks for the response. Your first scenario is indeed the best option, but my house unfortunately isn't wired. I only have one place (in the living room) where I can do that. Probably might be best to at least try that.

I am using the extender scenario to get Wi-Fi in my garage, and when using two of the 6th gen Airport Extremes, it actually works very well.

[P1]

Originally Posted by Daftasabrush

Run cat5/6/7 whatever takes your fancy to the places you want signal then put in a bunch of these: https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap/ then you get proper handover while walking around and should be a load more reliable too.

I think you've just hit on my dilemma. When I have too many Airport Extremes/Expresses set up around the house, will it confuse all my peripheral that access the internet in which router they should connect to? Or is everything just "signal" and it doesn't care where it gets it from?

[Daftasabrush]

Originally Posted by P1et

I think you've just hit on my dilemma. When I have too many Airport Extremes/Expresses set up around the house, will it confuse all my peripheral that access the internet in which router they should connect to? Or is everything just "signal" and it doesn't care where it gets it from?

Yeah, it'll probably be a bit shite, no controlled handover and they wouldn't co-ordinate their operation. 3 unifis will cover a pretty large area and if you bring them closer to each other, they reduce their output. I could probably get away with two of them in my house, but with three of them, I've guaranteed coverage in all of the house and they're all running at a low enough power so it doesn't stray too far beyond the house.

[zx10guy]

I agree with Daftasabrush. Using SOHO routers as APs is only a bandaid measure and won't provide proper wireless performance. The suggestion by Daftasabrush to look into something like Ubiquiti is spot on. Other products out there are Meraki, Meru, Ruckus, Aerohive, and Aruba Networks.

Here's more detail as to why using multiple SOHO routers isn't a good idea. First each of these SOHO routers will not work as a single wireless network. There is no intelligence between them. So to properly set a system like this up, you have to configure all of them to have the same SSID but each of them needs to be on a different channel. So for instance, 2.4 GHz has 3 non overlapping channels (1, 6, and 11). These are the preferential channels as 1 will not overlap into 6 and so on. As eluded to by Daft, if you have a client connected to on SOHO router on channel 1 and then roam to an area covered by the other router on channel 6, the algorithm in the client's wireless adapter most probably will maintain "stickiness" to the first router even though the signal on the second router is stronger. Roaming in these setups is dubious at best. Also as stated by Daft, these routers will also transmit at their normal power output. If this so happens to stomp over the adjacent router you set up...oh well. So this will also add to the confusion of which AP to associate with by the wireless client. Another feature which is missing with SOHO wireless products is the ability to monitor the RF space around it and then being able to auto select an operating channel continuously to avoid interference.

P1et, to your question about range/wireless extenders....DON'T. Most equipment out there is just pure junk. They operate on the same wireless frequency as the ones your wireless clients are using. The better systems are business class devices which typically use 5 GHz as the data back haul between wireless APs and then dedicate 2.4 solely for wireless clients. One thing you have to remember, wireless is a half duplex technology. This means only one wireless device can talk on the air space at any given time...this means wireless clients and APs. When you use extenders, the extenders have to transmit the data back to the main network. If the extender happens to use the same frequency as the wireless clients, that means everything has to wait till the extender finishes playing "telephone". Also for every hop introduced on the wireless communication path, the extender counts as one hop, you divide any wireless speed achieved in half. No imagine how fast contention can build up when you have multiple wireless clients connected to this extender.

I've been playing around with wireless technologies for a couple of years now as part of my job. I have a bunch of wireless networks running in my home. I have products from Aruba Networks/Dell PowerConnect W (both controller and controller less), SonicWall, and Aerohive. In addition to the heat glow and power vacuum I create, I have tons of RF radiation emminating from my house to probably cause an FCC investigation.

[MrRoboto]

You can certainly use Airport Express to extend your Airport Extremes wireless network.

[P1]

Alright everyone, bought a new house and am getting bids for getting the house wired for CAT6. I'm thinking of picking a closet that's close to my office, and making that the spot where the patch panel will be and all my cabling will terminate. Anything I need to think about?

[Daftasabrush]

Noise. Most decent switches are designed to sit in racks in datacentres so can be pretty noisy, you don't want this next to your desk, or possibly even in the same room. In my house, all my tech stuff is under the stairs. A) it was a handy cupboard to hide stuff B) it was pretty easy to get all the cable in there from under the floorboards above.

[zx10guy]

I don't know how big your house is and where the ultimate location of your wiring closet will be, but I'd consider getting bids for Cat6a. The reason is Cat6a supports 10GbaseT at the full 100 meter spec that each wiring standard has typically done for each step in Ethernet speed.

I would consider a location where not only possible noise from the IT equipment is a factor but also where a conduit could easily be placed to allow for you to pull more cabling in the future. With respect to noise, while it is a consideration, many network switches really are not that loud after the initial power up sequence. There are also network switches which are fanless. Dell sell up to a 26 port smart managed switch with no fans.

This leads me to the next topic of discussion. This is concerning how many drops you intend on pulling. Whether PoE is a consideration. Most PoE switches have a fan some don't if the number of PoE ports is low. Whether you need advanced features found in managed switches or if you are ok with a dumb switch. And switch size...more particularly depth.

This leads to another question and this is about the type of mounting hardware you want...ie structured wiring cabinet, wall rack, or everything mounted to a plywood board on the wall. Each type of mounting scheme has specific considerations. Structured wiring cabinets vary in size and many required you to use their hardware for patch panels, etc due to the manufacturer specific mounting method. You also need to take into consideration space within the cabinet and also heat as if you go with a cabinet you would probably want to close it up or the cabinet really serves no purpose. If you go with a wall rack, you need to select the rack you want to use. Wall racks come in a bunch of different sizes and styles. Some are permanently fixed to the wall. Some allow you to swing the front of it out to gain easy access to the back of the peripherals. Some allow you to mount devices vertically to allow a more compact install. And some have noise dampening capabilities. These wall racks are cabinets which are fully enclosed with baffles, insulation, and specially designed fans to keep the noise super low. This can be a consideration if the switch you select is known to be a bit noisy or you just want to ensure no noise issues at all. Be aware these wall cabinets are super expensive. And the last and cheapest option is to have a plywood sheet mounted to the wall which you would then screw on the various devices and patch panels. If you go this route, make sure you plan out any future expansion or nonexpansion. Also ensure the switch you select can be mounted to plywood vertically.

I trolled the internet to find a wall rack which was tall (had a lot of RUs or rack units) and was the deepest. Even though I was able to find a 19" deep wall rack, one of the network switches I use in my network is too deep to utilize the switch's rack hardware. So I ended up having to put the switch on a rack shelf.

Have you considered wireless in your networking plans?

Do you plan on running a server? If so, then anything mounted to the wall is moot. You would have to consider a floor rack. Again lots of different options to include again noise isolating racks that cost a lot.

Finally, you need to make sure there is power to that location. If you don't have power, you're going to be in a world of hurt. Make sure the circuit being run to that location is on its own dedicated breaker. I'm not sure how many devices you plan on running but you might consider having the circuit be a 20A circuit. I had to upgrade the dedicated circuit for the area I had all the wiring pulled to my house to 20A from 15A. Eventually, that area became a dedicated server room in my basement when I had a wall put up to create the room with a door. When that happened a bit after I ended up putting in a 240 L6-30 outlet. You also want to have enough headroom to allow for the load from a UPS with the draw from the circuit to charge the battery. It's not that big but significant enough to add in to the total load calculations.

If you decide on a closet or enclosed area, a nice to have which you'll thank me later is to have a light put in there. When you're working in there for what ever reason, you don't want the hassle of having to hold on to a flashlight to see stuff.

I think that's pretty much everything I would consider and think about.

[P1]

Originally Posted by Daftasabrush

Noise. Most decent switches are designed to sit in racks in datacentres so can be pretty noisy, you don't want this next to your desk, or possibly even in the same room. In my house, all my tech stuff is under the stairs. A) it was a handy cupboard to hide stuff B) it was pretty easy to get all the cable in there from under the floorboards above.

Since this is a retrofit on a two story home, each drop will likely not be that cheap. Hence, I'm being careful where I'm requesting them. Right now, I'm requesting ten drop with CAT6 cables pulled each location for a total of twenty. I don't need PoE at each location, only where my security cameras are, so will purchase an 8-port unmanaged PoE switch.

Originally Posted by zx10guy

I don't know how big your house is and where the ultimate location of your wiring closet will be, but I'd consider getting bids for Cat6a. The reason is Cat6a supports 10GbaseT at the full 100 meter spec that each wiring standard has typically done for each step in Ethernet speed.

I would consider a location where not only possible noise from the IT equipment is a factor but also where a conduit could easily be placed to allow for you to pull more cabling in the future. With respect to noise, while it is a consideration, many network switches really are not that loud after the initial power up sequence. There are also network switches which are fanless. Dell sell up to a 26 port smart managed switch with no fans.

This leads me to the next topic of discussion. This is concerning how many drops you intend on pulling. Whether PoE is a consideration. Most PoE switches have a fan some don't if the number of PoE ports is low. Whether you need advanced features found in managed switches or if you are ok with a dumb switch. And switch size...more particularly depth.

This leads to another question and this is about the type of mounting hardware you want...ie structured wiring cabinet, wall rack, or everything mounted to a plywood board on the wall. Each type of mounting scheme has specific considerations. Structured wiring cabinets vary in size and many required you to use their hardware for patch panels, etc due to the manufacturer specific mounting method. You also need to take into consideration space within the cabinet and also heat as if you go with a cabinet you would probably want to close it up or the cabinet really serves no purpose. If you go with a wall rack, you need to select the rack you want to use. Wall racks come in a bunch of different sizes and styles. Some are permanently fixed to the wall. Some allow you to swing the front of it out to gain easy access to the back of the peripherals. Some allow you to mount devices vertically to allow a more compact install. And some have noise dampening capabilities. These wall racks are cabinets which are fully enclosed with baffles, insulation, and specially designed fans to keep the noise super low. This can be a consideration if the switch you select is known to be a bit noisy or you just want to ensure no noise issues at all. Be aware these wall cabinets are super expensive. And the last and cheapest option is to have a plywood sheet mounted to the wall which you would then screw on the various devices and patch panels. If you go this route, make sure you plan out any future expansion or nonexpansion. Also ensure the switch you select can be mounted to plywood vertically.

I trolled the internet to find a wall rack which was tall (had a lot of RUs or rack units) and was the deepest. Even though I was able to find a 19" deep wall rack, one of the network switches I use in my network is too deep to utilize the switch's rack hardware. So I ended up having to put the switch on a rack shelf.

Have you considered wireless in your networking plans?

Do you plan on running a server? If so, then anything mounted to the wall is moot. You would have to consider a floor rack. Again lots of different options to include again noise isolating racks that cost a lot.

Finally, you need to make sure there is power to that location. If you don't have power, you're going to be in a world of hurt. Make sure the circuit being run to that location is on its own dedicated breaker. I'm not sure how many devices you plan on running but you might consider having the circuit be a 20A circuit. I had to upgrade the dedicated circuit for the area I had all the wiring pulled to my house to 20A from 15A. Eventually, that area became a dedicated server room in my basement when I had a wall put up to create the room with a door. When that happened a bit after I ended up putting in a 240 L6-30 outlet. You also want to have enough headroom to allow for the load from a UPS with the draw from the circuit to charge the battery. It's not that big but significant enough to add in to the total load calculations.

If you decide on a closet or enclosed area, a nice to have which you'll thank me later is to have a light put in there. When you're working in there for what ever reason, you don't want the hassle of having to hold on to a flashlight to see stuff.

I think that's pretty much everything I would consider and think about.

Thanks for the detailed response. As you can see from my response to Daftasasoftbrush, I'm requesting bids for 10 drops with two CAT6 cables at each drop, for a total of twenty. Three drops are for security cameras. In other words, I only need PoE to power the cameras, the rest don't need PoE.

Since we don't exactly have a lot of closet space at this house, I cannot take up the whole thing or my wife will have a mental breakdown. So right now I'm thinking a shelf or two, have a 24-port CAT6 patch panel and then think of the right switch. I don't need a managed switch (unless you can tell me why I do). Do I need a switch that matches the patch panel port for port? I assume a 24-port patch panel needs a 24-port switch, right?

For wireless, I have four Apple Airport Extremes right now (the towers) which I'd like to keep using. Yes, Ubiquiti is nice but there are enough other things I need to spend my money on such as paint, septic, closets, etc. that I just need the basics taken care of.

[zx10guy]

You don't need a managed switch. I would shop around for a PoE switch that is unmanaged and fanless. They do exist. You can get one for under $100 for 4 ports of PoE and some can do PoE+. If you need more ports of PoE..up to 8, you're looking at $100 to $200.

No you don't need to have a one for one match up with the ports on your patch panel with the switch...ie you don't need a 24 port switch. It's up to you if you are going to utilize those ports or not. If you don't utilize a port don't use up a switch port or buy a switch to have a port hot just because there's a port available on the patch panel. It's a good idea to pull as many drops as you think you may need due to the hassle factor of installing and labor. But you certainly don't need to buy all the switch ports to spin up all the drops up front. If you start off say with a 8 to 16 port switch and then later decide you need to spin up the remaining 12 to 4 ports. You can just buy another switch to add to the one you currently have. You would just make sure you have one extra port available to interconnect the two switches. Make sure you only use one cable between switches and not more to try to get more bandwidth. With unmanaged switches, you'll create a switch loop that will bring your network to its knees in a few seconds. Unless the switches have spanning tree protocol support which I haven't run across any in the unmanaged switch category.

The good news is the switches in this category/price point are all fanless. So no worries about noise.

[P1]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

You don't need a managed switch. I would shop around for a PoE switch that is unmanaged and fanless. They do exist. You can get one for under $100 for 4 ports of PoE and some can do PoE+. If you need more ports of PoE..up to 8, you're looking at $100 to $200.

No you don't need to have a one for one match up with the ports on your patch panel with the switch...ie you don't need a 24 port switch. It's up to you if you are going to utilize those ports or not. If you don't utilize a port don't use up a switch port or buy a switch to have a port hot just because there's a port available on the patch panel. It's a good idea to pull as many drops as you think you may need due to the hassle factor of installing and labor. But you certainly don't need to buy all the switch ports to spin up all the drops up front. If you start off say with a 8 to 16 port switch and then later decide you need to spin up the remaining 12 to 4 ports. You can just buy another switch to add to the one you currently have. You would just make sure you have one extra port available to interconnect the two switches. Make sure you only use one cable between switches and not more to try to get more bandwidth. With unmanaged switches, you'll create a switch loop that will bring your network to its knees in a few seconds. Unless the switches have spanning tree protocol support which I haven't run across any in the unmanaged switch category.

The good news is the switches in this category/price point are all fanless. So no worries about noise.

Good points. And you're right about not going cheap on this stuff. I suppose once you've got the right people in there, might as well keep pulling cable, right?

Any recommendations on a good patch panel? When I used to work at Dell, we sold quite a bit of Tripp Lite.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by P1et

Good points. And you're right about not going cheap on this stuff. I suppose once you've got the right people in there, might as well keep pulling cable, right?

Any recommendations on a good patch panel? When I used to work at Dell, we sold quite a bit of Tripp Lite.

Are you terminating the drops yourself?

[P1]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Are you terminating the drops yourself?

No, I just want to get as much done by the company that I'll end up choosing. As much as I love playing with all that stuff, I have too many things going on right now to really concentrate on it. Just want it done.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by P1et

No, I just want to get as much done by the company that I'll end up choosing. As much as I love playing with all that stuff, I have too many things going on right now to really concentrate on it. Just want it done.

Then I would have them install what ever patch panel they use. I would also ask them to make sure they certify the drops. This doesn't mean putting a continuity meter on the drops. This means sending actual test data to ensure the cable and connectors meet the SNR, data throughput, frequency, etc, to the fastest data rate the cable is spec'd for. Having them do the terminations puts them on the hook to make sure everything meets specs.

That's what I would do.

In my situation, I terminated the ends myself and just picked whatever patch panel fit the bill for me. Because I don't have a $3k+ Fluke tester, I couldn't certify the connections so worrying about the patch panel was just noise at that point.

[P1]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Then I would have them install what ever patch panel they use. I would also ask them to make sure they certify the drops. This doesn't mean putting a continuity meter on the drops. This means sending actual test data to ensure the cable and connectors meet the SNR, data throughput, frequency, etc, to the fastest data rate the cable is spec'd for. Having them do the terminations puts them on the hook to make sure everything meets specs.

That's what I would do.

In my situation, I terminated the ends myself and just picked whatever patch panel fit the bill for me. Because I don't have a $3k+ Fluke tester, I couldn't certify the connections so worrying about the patch panel was just noise at that point.

Excellent point, and will do!

[P1]

Alright everyone, got my house wired for cat6. Took them about 3 days to do it, and it cost me a pretty penny, but so worth it. Could not be happier.

[Daftasabrush]

Originally Posted by P1et

Alright everyone, got my house wired for cat6. Took them about 3 days to do it, and it cost me a pretty penny, but so worth it. Could not be happier.

Glad to hear it, do you have any photos of the work or the progress?

[dsad1]

Congrats on the new house Piet!

[zx10guy]

Yeah....