[catchm3ifyoucann]

A little about me: young professional, and I just started growing a taste for watches. Currently wearing a Tag Heuer Formula 1 Series.

Was thinking about Hublot Classic Fusion... What would you gentlemen suggest for my next watch?

Would like to stay under 5k.

[Dang3r]

A Breitling, no doubt. If you be able to get this one, buy it

[K19BMW]

Omega Speedmaster - sportier look
Omega Seamaster/PO - still sporty but more reserved look

[SunnyD]

Agree on the omega Speedy

[finaloption]

pre-owned 16610 or 16710 would be my pick

[catchm3ifyoucann]

Thank you everyone going to take a look at the watches recommended.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by catchm3ifyoucann

A little about me: young professional, and I just started growing a taste for watches. Currently wearing a Tag Heuer Formula 1 Series.

Was thinking about Hublot Classic Fusion... What would you gentlemen suggest for my next watch?

Would like to stay under 5k.

If you like the Classic Fusion, you'll no doubt enjoy wearing it. It's a very well made watch and it has a bit of stylishness it. It's offered in titanium making that version very comfortable to wear.

The single usability drawback manifests itself with the black dial versions. The hands are silver, unlumed, and skeletonized and that makes them harder to read in certain lighting, most notably in dark nightclubs. It's not that they can't be read, but it may take a minor shifting of one's wrist in order to catch reflected light to do so. The same thing applies to the white dial as well, but it's a tiny bit more "at a glance legible."

I believe the Classic Fusion models have Hublot's "quick change" strap feature, which can be a big boon if you get the bracelet and rubber strap. That simple change will effectively let you have the same watch for both dress flexible (see below) and casual uses. Be sure to buy buy an extra rubber strap when you buy the watch and store it somewhere it won't dry out (you can lightly oil it of you want). But it now because when you eventually need it, it'll just cost more than it does now. If the rubber strap will be your daily wear strap, buy two extra ones.

Straps for watches like the Hublot and others (AP's RO and VC's Overseas) that have unique attachment modes are nearly always a nuisance to find when you need a replacement. You can't generally dash into a local store and buy a suitable replacement to just get by in the event the thing "gives out" unexpectedly. Check 3rd party strap sellers to see if any of them offer a strap that will work with the Hublot. If there are some and their prices are sane, you don't need to buy the spares right away. With rubber straps, you should expect to buy one in three years whether you need to or not because there's no rule of thumb for how long the darn things will last after the first three years...it could make it through a decade or start to wear in year three or four and be shot by year five. The last thing you want to have happen is find it falling off as you walk over a sidewalk grate or some such thing. (Heck, most folks don't actually notice their watch fall off if it doesn't make noise hitting the ground, so used to it are they.)

Watch snobs have "issues" with Hublot watches. People who actually know and appreciate watches don't. Whether it's the or a right watch for you comes down to why you are buying it. At the Classic Fusion's price point, there aren't many equally contemporary looking watches, so if you want a modern looking watch, it's a fine choice.

There are no bad watches costing of $3K+, so you need to be more clear about what your expectations are rather than whether the watch is any good. The things you should consider are:

• Ownership experience
  • Obscure or little known makers may require you to use only the manufacturer for service unless it has a 3rd party movement from a major maker inside. The determining factor will be the most seemingly unimportant parts like washers and gaskets, which can be proprietary to given makers. You'll want to contact the maker and just ask, and if they say yes, you'll need to ask also whether they make parts available to independent watch repairmen.
  • Big name makers have a much wider service network, but many of them don't make parts available to independent repairmen. They don't because they've found that service and repair revenues can be a meaningful addition to their bottom line, so by not making silly things like a waterproof seal or gasket available, they can force owners to use their own repair facilities, be they an authorized service center (could be a local jewelry store or a centralized facility in a given country).
  • Quartz watches will by far be the most accurate and easiest and least expensive to own and maintain. You can have the battery replaced for about $10 or less at a Batteries Plus, or for $30 or less at any number of jewelers and the whole process will take five minutes.
    
    Compare that with ~$500+ for having a "fine" watch serviced, which is something you must do every three to seven years depending on how much you use the watch and the maker's recommendation. Right now, Rolex maintenance runs ~$400-$600 depending on where you take it. Other "fine" makers charge ~$1000+. Patek Philippe is a veritable "bargain," charging just under $1000 for current model pieces. (Most major makers list their service prices on their site or you can call and ask for a quote for "standard service, assuming no repairs are needed.")
• Obsolescence -- I don't know how long it'll be before a standard mechanical or quartz watch will go the way of the dodo bird. I do know that the most likely thing to drive that happening is the advent of the smartwatch or smart glasses. Smartwatches aren't at the point where they are going to make that happen right now and neither are smart glasses. That said, I am pretty certain the "writing's on the wall" for them to evolve within the next five to ten years to the point that they will have so much functionality and ergonomic pluses that they will displace the traditional wristwatch because most folks won't want to wear both.
  
  The outcome of the eventual demise of the traditional wristwatch is that you may want to think about whether you really want to spend a tidy sum on one only to have it become something that sits in the back of a drawer waiting for the day to come when it's so rare it'll draw a nice sum at auction, sort of like exquisite tapestries and other antique pieces of technology do now. FWIW, given how many watches in your price range are on the market and on wrists, I don't think you'll live long enough for that to happen.
  
  Of course, if you have $5K or so of purely discretionary fund that by spending it on a watch, nothing else you want will have to wait, then by all means, don't worry about obsolescence. Enjoy your wealth and get the watch. If you're going to be ticked off in a lustrum when you don't wear the watch anymore because you've found it necessary to wear a smart device instead, you may want to buy something nice, but spend a bit less.
• Why you are buying an expensive watch
  • Collector: If you intend to actually become a watch collector, you really should hold off spending a tidy sum approaching $5K for now. Collectors who know what they are doing have very clearly understood-by-them aims for what sort of collection they want to build and they won't be asking anyone (at least not in a venue like this or other online watch sites) what to buy. They'll have a plan and they'll proceed with executing on it.
    
    If you want to become a collector, you'll need to do a fair bit of research to define what exactly appeals to you and what sorts of watches -- current and vintage -- embody those things. I can point you to some early stage collector's reference materials if that's the direction you'd like to go. In the meantime, I suggest you head to your local museum that has a horology section and check it out. If you are reasonably close to Pennsylvania, I strongly suggest heading to the National Watch and Clock Museum.
    
    One thing about collecting is that obsolescence, ownership experiences, etc. don't matter. The whole point is to build a collection for whatever reason one is collecting. Just as car collectors will have vintage or current exotic cars they rarely or never actually drive, so too will collectors have watches they bought to build a collection, it's a curatorial hobby for them, although they may occasionally also wear them. Overall, however, their collecting is a personal conceit; what others think about watches, what watches to buy or not, or the collector's watches even, simply is irrelevant.
    
    What types of things do collectors collect for? They sky's the limit: a specific complication or group thereof; motifs like maybe birds, plants, dogs, etc., a single maker's wares, watches from a given time period, dial colors, hand styles, a specific functionality or feature, story telling, watches made or designed by a certain individual, watches from a given country....Whatever captures their interest. As I said, it's a personal thing, but whatever it is, it's entirely their own.
    
    There is a rarefied group of pretty wealthy collectors who also overlay a theme of value appreciation on their collecting. That's fine to do if one has the money or willingness to buy watches that are sure to appreciate in value. There are two types of watches that fit that description: watches that already have appreciated in value (these are all vintage pieces) and new/recent watches that will absolutely appreciate in value because they are superlative examples of "something" and they are made in very limited quantities (20 or fewer, preferably 10 or fewer). All such watches are expensive, be it in the absolute or be it for what they are (say a vintage Mickey Mouse watch), but not all expensive watches (even ones costing $10K+) fall into the realm of "investment grade" watches.
  • Consumer -- Some (but few) consumers evolve, sometimes intentionally and other times by serendipity -- into collectors. If you have any inkling that this might be you, buy a Rolex Oyster Perpetual or a Rolex Air King. Either makes an excellent starting point for any collection. A Cartier Tank Louis Cartier (or Tank MC) is another fine foundation, but as it's only available in gold, you'll need to buy a pre-owned one. The other watch that's an excellent starting point is any Omega having a co-axial escapement movement.
    
    You can also get a Speedmaster that doesn't have the co-axial escapement, but know that the Speedies that don't and that are real collectibles are vintages pieces and generally will be outside your price range; they'll also be hard-ish to come by. There are some exceptions to that but generally, the current model Speedies that have the older ETA-based movement are more marking things than they are collectible things. They are lovely and quite nice, however.
    
    I generally advise people to just accept that they are whatever sort of consumer they are and "roll with it." I tell them that because if, say, they want to be a pretentious consumer/wear, then fine. If I know that, I can give them better input than if I don't. I'm not into judging them; I'm just trying to point them to watches they'll like.
    
    There are roughly speaking three types of watch consumer:
    • A small few nice watches -- Basically this consumer just wants a nice watch or a few of them, but they aren't particularly "into" watches. If this is you, aesthetics will in all likelihood will be the driving factor for you. In consideration of the "ease of ownership" aspects, pick whatever looks good to you. I'd say get a Rolex Oyster (anything without a rotating/numbered bezel), Cartier Tank and Omega Speedy and call it a day. That'll give you a general use watch that'll be stylistically appropriate for all occasions, a dress watch and a sport watch, respectively. As noted earlier, it won't matter what you pick given the price point up to which you are willing to pay.
    • Functionality driven consumers -- These folks have specific functional requirements and they want the watch that meets them, that fits well, looks good to them, and that they can get at the lowest possible price. They don't care who makes the watch because they know they have little to no chance of buying a crappy watch unless they dive into the sub-$100 price range. These folks aren't focused on the price but rather the features and functionality. If they can get what they want for $1K, that's what they buy so long as they find a watch at that price point that looks good to them and feels good on their wrist.
    • Lots (6+) of watches -- If you are like this sort of consumer, you'll probably fall into one of three broadly described groups. Most of these folks start out as one of the two types above and then "get the bug," but never move to being full on curatorial collectors. These folks just have a lot of watches for whatever reason, most often as fashion accessories and/or as self indulgences.
      • Big Name Consumers -- Folks who want to buy watches that are widely thought of as "ooh la la" watches. Rolexes, Cartiers, Omegas, JLCs, Hublots, Pateks, etc. All of those watches are excellent and have widely recognized brand recognition. This group has rich guys and less rich guys, but roughly speaking they all use price as the primary indicator of whether a watch is a "step up" or not. Or put another way, their idea of "stepping up" necessarily means paying more. These folks will buy whatever watch mainly because it looks good to them, but they'll talk about "great workmanship" and "quality" and whatnot. This notwithstanding the fact that the workmanship on damn near anything in the $3K+ range is excellent, it being a matter of what the maker sought to achieve, not whether they executed poorly on what they sought to achieve.
        
        As with all things, there are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions, and they are rare. You'll know the exceptions for they'll just say, that they just bought "such and such" because it looked good and/or because it offers some specific functionality they want and have a use for.
        
        That said, buying big name watches have their advantages:
      • • Price -- Many of them can be had at discounted prices or pre-owned.
        • Service -- (see above)
      • Fun Consumers -- Folks who buy whatever looks good to them, but who couldn't give a damn about brand recognition. These folks buy watches of all sorts based entirely on the watch's looking "cool" (whatever that means to them) and it's feeling good on their wrist. Their watches may have "ooh la la" appeal or not. They buy what they buy because it looks good and they have the money to buy it.
      • Esoteric watch consumers -- This is where you find your "anti-brand" consumers. These are the folks who want an excellent watch, but they'll go out of their way to buy a watch made by a company none of their friends (who aren't "into" watches) know about. These consumers are more tickled by the fact that they have an excellent watch and it's not a Seiko, Rolex, Breitling, Omega, Patek, etc. These folks need quite a few watches for at least one practical reason: they often have no choice but to send the watch to the maker for service and that may sometimes take form eight weeks to four months. So they'll wear their Laurent Ferrier while their Maitre du Temps is being serviced.
        
        Note: I put this group in the "lots of watches" category, but I could have put it in the "a few watches" group too. In the latter group, this consumer will have one big name watch -- Rolex, Omega, Seiko, Hamilton, etc. (quartz or mechanical) -- as befits their budget, and the others will be something esoteric. Obviously, there's no formal definition of what an "esoteric watch" is. It's more a matter of where one falls on a spectrum. A good rule of thumb: if you can't find it in at least two stores in a medium sized city, it's esoteric to some degree.
• What style of watch you want and for what wear situations you intend to use it? You need to decide whether you are a traditionalist who wants to wear dress watches on dress occasions and sport/casual watches on such occasions, or if you are okay wearing sport, dress, etc. watches with whatever outfit you wear and whatever the occasion, or some combination/variation thereof. I wear a "dress flexible" watch everyday and switch to a casual watch when I can and the occasion is casual or to a strictly dress watch for dress occasions. Lots of folks will, for example, wear a dive watch with a suit. I won't, which is why my daily wearer is a "dress flexible" watch and not a dive watch. I put watches into several style categories:
  • Dress -- These watches are thin (less than ~8mm thick, but that it doesn't look "tall" on the wrist is more important than the actual measurements) and do not sit up high on one's wrist. They fit smartly under any sort of shirt sleeve with no trouble or intervention from the wearer to get them to do so. They fit under a sweater sleeve without leaving a noticeable "bump." These watches are all uncomplicated, meaning they tell the time of day and if need be, the date. The dressiest lack a seconds hand. Nearly all of these watches are sold mounted on a skin strap, although a bracelet may be available for them. The overwhelming majority of these watches have very traditional dials. This category also includes suitably thin novelty watches such as Piaget's and Arnold & Son's Year of the Dragon watches, for example. Also, some watches in this category, like the Hamilton Ventura, can have whimsically styled cases. Dress watches can be traditional or contemporary.
  • Near Dress -- These are the same watches as dress watches, but they have complications -- perp cal, chronograph, minute repeater, day + date, etc. I call them "near dress" mainly because the inclusion of many complications makes the watch thicker than I find suitable for a strictly dress watch. But for the slightly greater thickness, they'd be dress watches. People who are less style-fussy than I would consider them dress watches. Like dress watches, these watches range from traditional to contemporary in feel.
  • Dress Flexible -- These are basically dress watches mounted on bracelets. Some of them lean dressy and others lean casual or general purpose. All are perfectly acceptable style-wise for whatever you want to wear them for, from the most casual affairs to the dressiest. My daily wearer, Omega Constellation, is a dress flexible watch. Others include Cartier's Tank Solo on a bracelet, Omega Prestige on a bracelet, JLC's Reverso on a bracelet, Breguet's Marine on a bracelet, Patek's Nautilus or Aquanut on a bracelet. The Hublot Classic Fusion you mentioned is also a dress flexible watch when mounted on a bracelet. On the rubber strap, it's a sporty/casual styled watch. Dress flexible watches are distinguished from general purpose watches in that they have a bit more stylish flair and in general, they are thinner than a general purpose watch. These watches range from traditional to contemporary in feel.
  • General Purpose -- These are the types of watches most folks buy. Just as the category name suggests, there's little short of extreme sport that they won't be acceptable for. This is where you can find great bargains among otherwise pricey watches.
    
    Typical examples: Rolex Oyster Perpetual, Air King, DateJust, Day-Date, Milgauss or Explorer; Omega Deville Hour Vision or Tresor; Seiko Grand Seiko; JLC Master Control, and many others. In the main, these watches are somewhat "chunky." What distinguishes general purpose watches like the Master Control from a dress watch is the rather staid, "no flair, but not sporty either" styling of the case and dial. (A lot of folks will think of the Master Control as a dress watch, and as a general purpose watch, it'll serve just fine as one.)
    
    "Flair" is hard to explain. It has nothing to do with price. It's the thing that takes a watch face from "buttoned down" tasteful to conservative or contemporary elegance. It's the difference between a VC Traditionnelle (buttoned down) and a roughly comparable VC Patrimony (flair). It's the difference between the Patek 5227 (buttoned down) and the Patek 5120 or 5119 (flair). Some makers of course offer nothing with flair, and others offer nothing "buttoned down."
  • Sport and Casual -- This is pretty much everything else...dive watches, field watches, pilot/Flieger watches, "strange" watches, etc. This category has more than a few great and collectible or "near" collectible watches and is a great place for a beginning collector to look when starting out if they aren't keen to just get a Rolex or Cartier and then do some research and hone their areas of focus.
• Resale -- I don't imagine you are going to buy an investment grade vintage watch in the $5K price range, and there are no new watches that are investment grade in that price range. To that end, I suggest you not buy any watch you don't plan to keep because you'll lose money on resale with very few exceptions. Even buying a late model Rolex is more a matter of minimizing the loss than it is a matter of making a gain on the resale, which is what you'd need to do if the watch is going to be investment grade.
  
  Better to just contact one of the watch rental companies like Eleven James and pay their annual fee and try out a few different nice watches. For ~$3K-$4K, you can rent several nice watches that may appeal to you. After doing so, you'll know what you want and you can then buy that watch. Or you'll figure out that there's nothing really inspiring you to insist on paying $5K or so for a watch and instead buy something equally handsome that costs far less.
• Price -- Just because you have $5K to spend, don't feel obligated to spend that much. Click through the watches pictured here -- http://www.masterhorologer.com/p/lux...ch-brands.html -- and see if any of them appeal to you.
• Size -- Ignore the size you'll read. Try the watch on and decide whether you like how it looks. Sizes are nice to see, but unless the watch is smaller than 34mm or larger than 42mm, how it wears/looks on your arm will matter more than the listed size. The listed size is useful only if you have no way to try on the watch or one that's very similar to it and from the same maker.

Here are some watches (other than the ones mentioned above) that I'd suggest as alternatives. I've just pictured some basic examples for a given model. There are often variations -- dial color, with/without date, marker color or style, bracelet styles, etc.

Glashutte Original Senator ($4500) - General Purpose style leaning dressy



Parerai Radomir (~$4500) -- General purpose style leaning sporty



IWC Ingenieur (~$4500) -- dress flexible leaning sporty



Blancpain Fifty Fathoms (~$5500) -- sport watch



JLC Reverso Automatic (~$5500) (manual will run ~$1K less) -- dress watch with sport capability due to the revering case



JLC Reverso Sport (~$4500) -- dress flexible leaning sporty



Paul Gerber Model 42 Pilot -- ~$5800 -- Casual watch (Pilot style) -- this is an example of a collectible type of ETA-base movement. It's been highly modified as you can see.



Paul Gerber Model 42 Synchron (same watch different dial) -- still casual



Vacheron Constantin Patrimony (pre-owned) -- (~$5300)



Vacheron Constantin Phidias Chronograph (~$4900 - pre-owned) -- Dress Flexible



All the best.

P.S.
If you are going to buy a watch you can't try on before paying, make sure you are okay with the seller's return policy. If there's something about it you don't like, ask them to make an exception for you and have them put it in writing on the sales order/receipt/invoice/shipping documents they send you.

[catchm3ifyoucann]

Originally Posted by tony20009

If you like the Classic Fusion, you'll no doubt enjoy wearing it. It's a very well made watch and it has a bit of stylishness it. It's offered in titanium making that version very comfortable to wear.

The single usability drawback manifests itself with the black dial versions. The hands are silver, unlumed, and skeletonized and that makes them harder to read in certain lighting, most notably in dark nightclubs. It's not that they can't be read, but it may take a minor shifting of one's wrist in order to catch reflected light to do so. The same thing applies to the white dial as well, but it's a tiny bit more "at a glance legible."

I believe the Classic Fusion models have Hublot's "quick change" strap feature, which can be a big boon if you get the bracelet and rubber strap. That simple change will effectively let you have the same watch for both dress flexible (see below) and casual uses. Be sure to buy buy an extra rubber strap when you buy the watch and store it somewhere it won't dry out (you can lightly oil it of you want). But it now because when you eventually need it, it'll just cost more than it does now. If the rubber strap will be your daily wear strap, buy two extra ones.

Straps for watches like the Hublot and others (AP's RO and VC's Overseas) that have unique attachment modes are nearly always a nuisance to find when you need a replacement. You can't generally dash into a local store and buy a suitable replacement to just get by in the event the thing "gives out" unexpectedly. Check 3rd party strap sellers to see if any of them offer a strap that will work with the Hublot. If there are some and their prices are sane, you don't need to buy the spares right away. With rubber straps, you should expect to buy one in three years whether you need to or not because there's no rule of thumb for how long the darn things will last after the first three years...it could make it through a decade or start to wear in year three or four and be shot by year five. The last thing you want to have happen is find it falling off as you walk over a sidewalk grate or some such thing. (Heck, most folks don't actually notice their watch fall off if it doesn't make noise hitting the ground, so used to it are they.)

Watch snobs have "issues" with Hublot watches. People who actually know and appreciate watches don't. Whether it's the or a right watch for you comes down to why you are buying it. At the Classic Fusion's price point, there aren't many equally contemporary looking watches, so if you want a modern looking watch, it's a fine choice.

There are no bad watches costing of $3K+, so you need to be more clear about what your expectations are rather than whether the watch is any good. The things you should consider are:

• Ownership experience
  • Obscure or little known makers may require you to use only the manufacturer for service unless it has a 3rd party movement from a major maker inside. The determining factor will be the most seemingly unimportant parts like washers and gaskets, which can be proprietary to given makers. You'll want to contact the maker and just ask, and if they say yes, you'll need to ask also whether they make parts available to independent watch repairmen.
  • Big name makers have a much wider service network, but many of them don't make parts available to independent repairmen. They don't because they've found that service and repair revenues can be a meaningful addition to their bottom line, so by not making silly things like a waterproof seal or gasket available, they can force owners to use their own repair facilities, be they an authorized service center (could be a local jewelry store or a centralized facility in a given country).
  • Quartz watches will by far be the most accurate and easiest and least expensive to own and maintain. You can have the battery replaced for about $10 or less at a Batteries Plus, or for $30 or less at any number of jewelers and the whole process will take five minutes.
    
    Compare that with ~$500+ for having a "fine" watch serviced, which is something you must do every three to seven years depending on how much you use the watch and the maker's recommendation. Right now, Rolex maintenance runs ~$400-$600 depending on where you take it. Other "fine" makers charge ~$1000+. Patek Philippe is a veritable "bargain," charging just under $1000 for current model pieces. (Most major makers list their service prices on their site or you can call and ask for a quote for "standard service, assuming no repairs are needed.")
• Obsolescence -- I don't know how long it'll be before a standard mechanical or quartz watch will go the way of the dodo bird. I do know that the most likely thing to drive that happening is the advent of the smartwatch or smart glasses. Smartwatches aren't at the point where they are going to make that happen right now and neither are smart glasses. That said, I am pretty certain the "writing's on the wall" for them to evolve within the next five to ten years to the point that they will have so much functionality and ergonomic pluses that they will displace the traditional wristwatch because most folks won't want to wear both.
  
  The outcome of the eventual demise of the traditional wristwatch is that you may want to think about whether you really want to spend a tidy sum on one only to have it become something that sits in the back of a drawer waiting for the day to come when it's so rare it'll draw a nice sum at auction, sort of like exquisite tapestries and other antique pieces of technology do now. FWIW, given how many watches in your price range are on the market and on wrists, I don't think you'll live long enough for that to happen.
  
  Of course, if you have $5K or so of purely discretionary fund that by spending it on a watch, nothing else you want will have to wait, then by all means, don't worry about obsolescence. Enjoy your wealth and get the watch. If you're going to be ticked off in a lustrum when you don't wear the watch anymore because you've found it necessary to wear a smart device instead, you may want to buy something nice, but spend a bit less.
• Why you are buying an expensive watch
  • Collector: If you intend to actually become a watch collector, you really should hold off spending a tidy sum approaching $5K for now. Collectors who know what they are doing have very clearly understood-by-them aims for what sort of collection they want to build and they won't be asking anyone (at least not in a venue like this or other online watch sites) what to buy. They'll have a plan and they'll proceed with executing on it.
    
    If you want to become a collector, you'll need to do a fair bit of research to define what exactly appeals to you and what sorts of watches -- current and vintage -- embody those things. I can point you to some early stage collector's reference materials if that's the direction you'd like to go. In the meantime, I suggest you head to your local museum that has a horology section and check it out. If you are reasonably close to Pennsylvania, I strongly suggest heading to the National Watch and Clock Museum.
    
    One thing about collecting is that obsolescence, ownership experiences, etc. don't matter. The whole point is to build a collection for whatever reason one is collecting. Just as car collectors will have vintage or current exotic cars they rarely or never actually drive, so too will collectors have watches they bought to build a collection, it's a curatorial hobby for them, although they may occasionally also wear them. Overall, however, their collecting is a personal conceit; what others think about watches, what watches to buy or not, or the collector's watches even, simply is irrelevant.
    
    What types of things do collectors collect for? They sky's the limit: a specific complication or group thereof; motifs like maybe birds, plants, dogs, etc., a single maker's wares, watches from a given time period, dial colors, hand styles, a specific functionality or feature, story telling, watches made or designed by a certain individual, watches from a given country....Whatever captures their interest. As I said, it's a personal thing, but whatever it is, it's entirely their own.
    
    There is a rarefied group of pretty wealthy collectors who also overlay a theme of value appreciation on their collecting. That's fine to do if one has the money or willingness to buy watches that are sure to appreciate in value. There are two types of watches that fit that description: watches that already have appreciated in value (these are all vintage pieces) and new/recent watches that will absolutely appreciate in value because they are superlative examples of "something" and they are made in very limited quantities (20 or fewer, preferably 10 or fewer). All such watches are expensive, be it in the absolute or be it for what they are (say a vintage Mickey Mouse watch), but not all expensive watches (even ones costing $10K+) fall into the realm of "investment grade" watches.
  • Consumer -- Some (but few) consumers evolve, sometimes intentionally and other times by serendipity -- into collectors. If you have any inkling that this might be you, buy a Rolex Oyster Perpetual or a Rolex Air King. Either makes an excellent starting point for any collection. A Cartier Tank Louis Cartier (or Tank MC) is another fine foundation, but as it's only available in gold, you'll need to buy a pre-owned one. The other watch that's an excellent starting point is any Omega having a co-axial escapement movement.
    
    You can also get a Speedmaster that doesn't have the co-axial escapement, but know that the Speedies that don't and that are real collectibles are vintages pieces and generally will be outside your price range; they'll also be hard-ish to come by. There are some exceptions to that but generally, the current model Speedies that have the older ETA-based movement are more marking things than they are collectible things. They are lovely and quite nice, however.
    
    I generally advise people to just accept that they are whatever sort of consumer they are and "roll with it." I tell them that because if, say, they want to be a pretentious consumer/wear, then fine. If I know that, I can give them better input than if I don't. I'm not into judging them; I'm just trying to point them to watches they'll like.
    
    There are roughly speaking three types of watch consumer:
    • A small few nice watches -- Basically this consumer just wants a nice watch or a few of them, but they aren't particularly "into" watches. If this is you, aesthetics will in all likelihood will be the driving factor for you. In consideration of the "ease of ownership" aspects, pick whatever looks good to you. I'd say get a Rolex Oyster (anything without a rotating/numbered bezel), Cartier Tank and Omega Speedy and call it a day. That'll give you a general use watch that'll be stylistically appropriate for all occasions, a dress watch and a sport watch, respectively. As noted earlier, it won't matter what you pick given the price point up to which you are willing to pay.
    • Functionality driven consumers -- These folks have specific functional requirements and they want the watch that meets them, that fits well, looks good to them, and that they can get at the lowest possible price. They don't care who makes the watch because they know they have little to no chance of buying a crappy watch unless they dive into the sub-$100 price range. These folks aren't focused on the price but rather the features and functionality. If they can get what they want for $1K, that's what they buy so long as they find a watch at that price point that looks good to them and feels good on their wrist.
    • Lots (6+) of watches -- If you are like this sort of consumer, you'll probably fall into one of three broadly described groups. Most of these folks start out as one of the two types above and then "get the bug," but never move to being full on curatorial collectors. These folks just have a lot of watches for whatever reason, most often as fashion accessories and/or as self indulgences.
      • Big Name Consumers -- Folks who want to buy watches that are widely thought of as "ooh la la" watches. Rolexes, Cartiers, Omegas, JLCs, Hublots, Pateks, etc. All of those watches are excellent and have widely recognized brand recognition. This group has rich guys and less rich guys, but roughly speaking they all use price as the primary indicator of whether a watch is a "step up" or not. Or put another way, their idea of "stepping up" necessarily means paying more. These folks will buy whatever watch mainly because it looks good to them, but they'll talk about "great workmanship" and "quality" and whatnot. This notwithstanding the fact that the workmanship on damn near anything in the $3K+ range is excellent, it being a matter of what the maker sought to achieve, not whether they executed poorly on what they sought to achieve.
        
        As with all things, there are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions, and they are rare. You'll know the exceptions for they'll just say, that they just bought "such and such" because it looked good and/or because it offers some specific functionality they want and have a use for.
        
        That said, buying big name watches have their advantages:
      • • Price -- Many of them can be had at discounted prices or pre-owned.
        • Service -- (see above)
      • Fun Consumers -- Folks who buy whatever looks good to them, but who couldn't give a damn about brand recognition. These folks buy watches of all sorts based entirely on the watch's looking "cool" (whatever that means to them) and it's feeling good on their wrist. Their watches may have "ooh la la" appeal or not. They buy what they buy because it looks good and they have the money to buy it.
      • Esoteric watch consumers -- This is where you find your "anti-brand" consumers. These are the folks who want an excellent watch, but they'll go out of their way to buy a watch made by a company none of their friends (who aren't "into" watches) know about. These consumers are more tickled by the fact that they have an excellent watch and it's not a Seiko, Rolex, Breitling, Omega, Patek, etc. These folks need quite a few watches for at least one practical reason: they often have no choice but to send the watch to the maker for service and that may sometimes take form eight weeks to four months. So they'll wear their Laurent Ferrier while their Maitre du Temps is being serviced.
        
        Note: I put this group in the "lots of watches" category, but I could have put it in the "a few watches" group too. In the latter group, this consumer will have one big name watch -- Rolex, Omega, Seiko, Hamilton, etc. (quartz or mechanical) -- as befits their budget, and the others will be something esoteric. Obviously, there's no formal definition of what an "esoteric watch" is. It's more a matter of where one falls on a spectrum. A good rule of thumb: if you can't find it in at least two stores in a medium sized city, it's esoteric to some degree.
• What style of watch you want and for what wear situations you intend to use it? You need to decide whether you are a traditionalist who wants to wear dress watches on dress occasions and sport/casual watches on such occasions, or if you are okay wearing sport, dress, etc. watches with whatever outfit you wear and whatever the occasion, or some combination/variation thereof. I wear a "dress flexible" watch everyday and switch to a casual watch when I can and the occasion is casual or to a strictly dress watch for dress occasions. Lots of folks will, for example, wear a dive watch with a suit. I won't, which is why my daily wearer is a "dress flexible" watch and not a dive watch. I put watches into several style categories:
  • Dress -- These watches are thin (less than ~8mm thick, but that it doesn't look "tall" on the wrist is more important than the actual measurements) and do not sit up high on one's wrist. They fit smartly under any sort of shirt sleeve with no trouble or intervention from the wearer to get them to do so. They fit under a sweater sleeve without leaving a noticeable "bump." These watches are all uncomplicated, meaning they tell the time of day and if need be, the date. The dressiest lack a seconds hand. Nearly all of these watches are sold mounted on a skin strap, although a bracelet may be available for them. The overwhelming majority of these watches have very traditional dials. This category also includes suitably thin novelty watches such as Piaget's and Arnold & Son's Year of the Dragon watches, for example. Also, some watches in this category, like the Hamilton Ventura, can have whimsically styled cases. Dress watches can be traditional or contemporary.
  • Near Dress -- These are the same watches as dress watches, but they have complications -- perp cal, chronograph, minute repeater, day + date, etc. I call them "near dress" mainly because the inclusion of many complications makes the watch thicker than I find suitable for a strictly dress watch. But for the slightly greater thickness, they'd be dress watches. People who are less style-fussy than I would consider them dress watches. Like dress watches, these watches range from traditional to contemporary in feel.
  • Dress Flexible -- These are basically dress watches mounted on bracelets. Some of them lean dressy and others lean casual or general purpose. All are perfectly acceptable style-wise for whatever you want to wear them for, from the most casual affairs to the dressiest. My daily wearer, Omega Constellation, is a dress flexible watch. Others include Cartier's Tank Solo on a bracelet, Omega Prestige on a bracelet, JLC's Reverso on a bracelet, Breguet's Marine on a bracelet, Patek's Nautilus or Aquanut on a bracelet. The Hublot Classic Fusion you mentioned is also a dress flexible watch when mounted on a bracelet. On the rubber strap, it's a sporty/casual styled watch. Dress flexible watches are distinguished from general purpose watches in that they have a bit more stylish flair and in general, they are thinner than a general purpose watch. These watches range from traditional to contemporary in feel.
  • General Purpose -- These are the types of watches most folks buy. Just as the category name suggests, there's little short of extreme sport that they won't be acceptable for. This is where you can find great bargains among otherwise pricey watches.
    
    Typical examples: Rolex Oyster Perpetual, Air King, DateJust, Day-Date, Milgauss or Explorer; Omega Deville Hour Vision or Tresor; Seiko Grand Seiko; JLC Master Control, and many others. In the main, these watches are somewhat "chunky." What distinguishes general purpose watches like the Master Control from a dress watch is the rather staid, "no flair, but not sporty either" styling of the case and dial. (A lot of folks will think of the Master Control as a dress watch, and as a general purpose watch, it'll serve just fine as one.)
    
    "Flair" is hard to explain. It has nothing to do with price. It's the thing that takes a watch face from "buttoned down" tasteful to conservative or contemporary elegance. It's the difference between a VC Traditionnelle (buttoned down) and a roughly comparable VC Patrimony (flair). It's the difference between the Patek 5227 (buttoned down) and the Patek 5120 or 5119 (flair). Some makers of course offer nothing with flair, and others offer nothing "buttoned down."
  • Sport and Casual -- This is pretty much everything else...dive watches, field watches, pilot/Flieger watches, "strange" watches, etc. This category has more than a few great and collectible or "near" collectible watches and is a great place for a beginning collector to look when starting out if they aren't keen to just get a Rolex or Cartier and then do some research and hone their areas of focus.
• Resale -- I don't imagine you are going to buy an investment grade vintage watch in the $5K price range, and there are no new watches that are investment grade in that price range. To that end, I suggest you not buy any watch you don't plan to keep because you'll lose money on resale with very few exceptions. Even buying a late model Rolex is more a matter of minimizing the loss than it is a matter of making a gain on the resale, which is what you'd need to do if the watch is going to be investment grade.
  
  Better to just contact one of the watch rental companies like Eleven James and pay their annual fee and try out a few different nice watches. For ~$3K-$4K, you can rent several nice watches that may appeal to you. After doing so, you'll know what you want and you can then buy that watch. Or you'll figure out that there's nothing really inspiring you to insist on paying $5K or so for a watch and instead buy something equally handsome that costs far less.
• Price -- Just because you have $5K to spend, don't feel obligated to spend that much. Click through the watches pictured here -- http://www.masterhorologer.com/p/lux...ch-brands.html -- and see if any of them appeal to you.
• Size -- Ignore the size you'll read. Try the watch on and decide whether you like how it looks. Sizes are nice to see, but unless the watch is smaller than 34mm or larger than 42mm, how it wears/looks on your arm will matter more than the listed size. The listed size is useful only if you have no way to try on the watch or one that's very similar to it and from the same maker.

Here are some watches (other than the ones mentioned above) that I'd suggest as alternatives. I've just pictured some basic examples for a given model. There are often variations -- dial color, with/without date, marker color or style, bracelet styles, etc.

Glashutte Original Senator ($4500) - General Purpose style leaning dressy



Parerai Radomir (~$4500) -- General purpose style leaning sporty



IWC Ingenieur (~$4500) -- dress flexible leaning sporty



Blancpain Fifty Fathoms (~$5500) -- sport watch



JLC Reverso Automatic (~$5500) (manual will run ~$1K less) -- dress watch with sport capability due to the revering case



JLC Reverso Sport (~$4500) -- dress flexible leaning sporty



Paul Gerber Model 42 Pilot -- ~$5800 -- Casual watch (Pilot style) -- this is an example of a collectible type of ETA-base movement. It's been highly modified as you can see.



Paul Gerber Model 42 Synchron (same watch different dial) -- still casual



Vacheron Constantin Patrimony (pre-owned) -- (~$5300)



Vacheron Constantin Phidias Chronograph (~$4900 - pre-owned) -- Dress Flexible



All the best.

P.S.
If you are going to buy a watch you can't try on before paying, make sure you are okay with the seller's return policy. If there's something about it you don't like, ask them to make an exception for you and have them put it in writing on the sales order/receipt/invoice/shipping documents they send you.

First off, I sincerely want to thank you for the detailed response. Reading it made me realize more about what I would like out of a watch, and you taught me finer points I did not know (such as the issue with rubber straps, service costs, and usability drawbacks). I have many questions to ask next time I go in to browse.

May I ask why watch "snobs" have issues with Hublot?

As you mentioned with the creation of the iWatch and other smartwatches I understand that later down the road everything else will be considered obsolete. But to me this is more than a tool, but also a piece of art. Each watch having unique features and design elements is what sparked my interest to begin with.

In terms of watches to match a style, I prefer dress flexible and or near dress. I also have a huge passion for formula 1 & all forms of motorsports so to find something that has an essence of those integrated into it would be wonderful (although not necessary). The formula 1 series from TAG has a checked flag on the back of the dial which to me was a nice touch. Aside from that I prefer the dial to be small, and not fond of anything flashy such as overuse of gold, odd colors, etc). Generally more on the conservative side.

Out of all the watches you listed I'm in love with the Glashutte Original Senator.

Don't worry I plan to keep my watches.

After reading your post I still have lots of reading to do to be as informative as you. Once again thank you very much.

Cheers!

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by catchm3ifyoucann

First off, I sincerely want to thank you for the detailed response. Reading it made me realize more about what I would like out of a watch, and you taught me finer points I did not know (such as the issue with rubber straps, service costs, and usability drawbacks). I have many questions to ask next time I go in to browse.

May I ask why watch "snobs" have issues with Hublot?

...

After reading your post I still have lots of reading to do to be as informative as you. Once again thank you very much.

Cheers!

You're welcome. I'm glad the post gave you some things to consider. My intent with nearly all my watch posts is to give folks info and let them make their own choices.

Red:
The short is that you probably need to ask an actual watch snob that question if you want the sophistic specifics. I'm a watch collector and as such I appreciate watches, nearly all of them, for what they are, not for what they are not but that I think they should be. That is the best general description I can give you for what distinguishes a watch snob from a watch collector.

Over the years, I've observed various behaviors that suggest an individual may be a watch snob. Among them:

• Applauding makers who produce their watches "in house," but ignoring the fact that the "darling" makers of watches snobs (PP, AP, VC, ALS, Rolex, Omega, and some others) until fairly recently weren't in-house at all and that they are now is more a business necessity due to industry consolidation than a deliberate choice on their part. Makers hype the fact that they do their own work and watch snobs buy the hype, but don't really know (or do and ignore it) the hypocrisy behind it.
  
  FWIW, "in house" watchmaking capability matters in one situation: when one wants to have a watch custom made. One can contact Rolex, Gallet, Omega, Patek, and others and commission a watch to whatever specifications one has. If the buyer is willing to pay what the maker wants to charge, any watch manufacture will accept a commission. That's just not possible with most if not all non-in-house makers.
• They deride watches/watchmakers for not being in-house, and talk about the excellence of makers like Patek and JLC, but ignore the fact that Seiko was in-house from day one as was Swatch, Citizen, and a number of other low cost makers.
• They ignore or are oblivious to the business imperatives that drive the industry. For example, they'll discover that many makers are subsidiaries of large conglomerates and speak of them in terms analogous to "a Lexus is just an expensive Toyota." It's true that there is sharing among brands in a conglomerate, but from a business standpoint, that's not a bad thing, and for the consumer it's not at all a given that it's a bad thing.
• They'll express thoughts that suggest that everyone who spends a tidy sum on a watch should "understand" or "know" watches. It's completely lost on them that many folks just have money to spend and buy what they buy because they want to and can. It's as though they think that being wealthy enough to afford a pricey watch is supposed to also be accompanied by being interested in watches. I ask you, how interested do you think well off businessmen are in, say, shirts even though they may buy custom made ones? Mostly well off folks don't care about much of the pricey stuff they buy, but they buy it because they know it's nice and don't have to think about whether it'll serve their needs as they expect it to. If they actually cared, they'd likely buy less pricey stuff that would serve just as effectively, but to do that, they'd have to do some research. Quite frankly wealthy people (the ones that aren't yet wealthy enough to dictate their own work hours and schedules) usually have more money than time, so going to Sak's is just less work than figuring out that "so and so" offer equally nice shirts (or whatever) for far less.
• They'll talk about brands rather than specific watches and they hold as synonymous a brand and a company in situations where the distinction is relevant. They'll also speak/write of makers as though the only watch the maker offers is the one (or two) they know about.
• Thinking that a more expensive watch is generally a better and nicer watch.
• Deriding very rock solid watch movements as undesirable because they are/were widely available, not because there was/is something actually deficient about them.
• Assuming/advocating that a more finely finished or elaborately decorated watch is somehow better because of the finishing rather than seeing the finishing as something that is done after a maker has produced an excellently designed/engineered machine that they have elected to also decorate elaborately.
• Thinking that more finishing equals better watch rather than it just equaling more finishing.
• Watch snobs want to tell you what brands (occasionally items) to buy or not buy rather than sharing specific pros and cons resulting from experience and/or personal observations about specific items/models and leaving the choice up to you. (That's so of snobs of all sorts, not just watch snobs.)
• Making a big deal about finishing elements -- so much so that listening to them, one'd get the impression that the only thing that matters in a watch is finishing -- that really are no big deal at all. For example, Geneva stripes or blued screws.
• Ranting on and on about any of the above without the appropriate perspective.

The last bullet point above holds the key: perspective. Watch snobs just don't approach watches from an accurate or fair perspective.

With watches of a certain ilk and that are sought by a certain type of collector, for example, all the finer points of finishing, pedigree, history, whether a maker can produce its wares in house or not, and so on are very important.

Take a collector whose focus is finishing. That person may identify low cost pieces that exemplify selected elements of fine finishing ("selected" because at low cost, finishing can only go so far) at their respective price levels and s/he will appreciate them for what they are, even if the watch and its functionality isn't "the best" possible at that price point. They are collecting for the finishing, not the timekeeping. That same collector might also include in their collection a Patek and other high end watches that offer even finer degrees of finishing. The collector again, however, is collecting for the finishing technique and execution not whether the watch has silicon parts that will help reduce wear and lengthen the intervals between servicing.

So while the finishing is important to that collector, how well his watches are finished for as nice as it may seem, doesn't necessarily make the watches s/he chooses the best choice for someone who wants a very fine watch to wear every day.



(Hublot Classic Fusion -- no lume on the hands)


As for Hublot in particular, as best as I can tell, watch snobs rag on Hublot mainly because it has some design features that roughly resemble those of the Audemars Piguet Royal Oak. This even as they, for example, quite likely own and wear a trench coat that is not a Burberry but basically looks more like one than does an Hublot Big Bang or Classic Fusion resemble an RO. They don't see that the two don't look very similar at all when seen side by side.









(notice that the Hublot above has a solid lumed area in its hands and that will help with low light legibility to a point)


Hublot's isn't the only watch to somewhat resemble the Royal Oak...





...And yet folks just love IWC's Ingy, a watch that actually resembles the RO because it was designed by the same man, Gerald Genta. Nevermind that the idea of exposed bezel screws is one that first appeared around 1913 on a Cartier that was sold and discontinued before Mr. Genta was even a twinkle in his parents' eyes.

IMO, snobs see Hublot's most popular models as looking similar to the RO, costing less, and not being (in the past) in-house made. They speak of Hublot watches as though the values of, say, that hypothetical finishing collector I described above should be the values everyone and every pricey watchmaker should espouse.

Blue:
If you are looking to become a collector, I'd suggest starting with this book or one very similar to it: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/hist...=2672201566883 .

Once you've gotten an accurate and non-marketing driven overview of horological history, you'll no doubt have a better idea of what about watches appeals to you. With those ideas in your mind, seek out a book or two that specifically address those things. It may be a maker, a style, a type of watch, a complications, etc. It may be something as simple as a motif (birds, dogs, ships, etc.) or a country (America -- http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Ma.../dp/B001MCD7FU).

Motif Example:
I'm not a motif collector, but I have an acquaintance who's not especially "into" watches and who doesn't collect them per se. She's "into" elephants and will buy damn near anything that depicts or is in the shape of an elephant. (She doesn't want a live elephant, however....and thank God for that. LOL She bought a medium sized stuffed one though....)

She has several watches with elephant imagery on them, and they're rather nice. One is a Cartier purple and grey Ballon Bleu and another is a VC&A elephant motif watch that is one of ~20 made. Even so, I don't think she knows all that much about watches, but based on how many elephant baubles she wears and how many elephant household decorative items she displays, her jeweler and her favorite gallery curators are well aware she's "into" elephants. LOL

Conclusion:
Please note that not every trait I noted above is going to be present in every snob. What I've shared is just a general set of observations. It's also worth noting that some folks may say/do snobby things and not really know it, others may not even know why they are doing it. There's no question that some "snobs" do actually know something about watches. On occasion, for example, Archie Luxury and The Watch Snob do impart very good information, and I have no doubt they both do in fact know a good deal more about watches than what appears in their published works; they are after all paid to affect a persona. What they rarely do, however, is put that information in context so that readers/viewers can make use of it appropriately or disregard it when it's not applicable. Be that as it may, hopefully, if nothing else the preceding will give you a rough sense of what it is that snobs don't like about Hublot (or other watches) as well as giving you some insight into when you're hearing/reading what is just snobbery vs. what is good input.

All the best.