[OUGrad05]

So first of all, I don't understand all the hate for the E60 5 series. Two weeks ago dropping my car off at the dealer, there was an E60 and an F10 550i sitting nose to tail, the E60 was the better looking car. The F10 more consistently looks good, in otherwords, the lower trimmed E60s struggle a bit in my mind. But the 535 and 550i are great looking cars.

I don't understand the hate but it got me thinking about other sedans that have had an impact on me and the industry.

In the 1990s and early 2000s for me this was dominated by BMW and a couple of MB products, along with a couple domestics...

Germany
E34 5 series
E39 5 series
E36 M3 sedan
E60 550i
E46 3 series
E90 3 series
MB 300E/500E

Japan
Acura Legend (Gen1 and Gen2)
Lexus LS

America
Impala SS (94-96)
Taurus SHO (89-95)

Today it seems cars have less brand character as many abandon heritage in an attempt to maintain bragging rights. BMW is a perfect example of a brand doing just that...the current 5 series feels soft, heavy and lumbering, the 3 series in comparison with the E90 feels similarly soft and lumbering.

The two brands that seem to really be rocking the boat is Cadillac and Lexus with their F Sport trim. Those respective brands have sportier character than the competitors at this point. Something that 10 or 15 years ago was unthinkable...hell even 5 or 6 years ago was unthinkable.

So while many seem to hate the E60, it was a fantastic driving car, I also think it looked great in the right trim. It seems that by chasing titles like "biggest german car maker" or fighting for sales in the US makes sense in the short run it may eventually cost some of these brands.

It seems in the current market we don't really have an iconic sports sedan in the smaller (3 series) and midsize (5er) markets. Lots of competent cars in some form or fashion but no one brand that dominates. Lexus and Cadillac drive more sporty than BMW and Audi, BMW and Audi still have superb drivetrains, no one interior stands out (although the Germans are significantly better in this regard).

It seems as though the rush to the middle of the market is isolating enthusiasts and sterilizing the car/driving experience.

[Beartato]

If you want a large RWD sports sedan check out the Chevy SS.

[Aatish]

People hate the e60?

I loved it! Drove really well

[kscarrol]

I had two E60's, they were excellent cars and I agree, still better looking than the current 5 series.

Bought my first in Dec 2003 when they first came out. The E39 guys hated it as it was a radical design departure for BMW and all the complaints were driven by the design. Bangle left BMW and BMW went back to a more conservative design philosophy.

Design is really subjective and despite the complaints from the E39 and old-school BMW guys, E60 sales were very strong.

[silvergray545]

I used to have an E60 545i (hence my username). It was a sport with nav and 6MT. Pretty rare. Awesome car. I really enjoyed driving it.

[fecurtis]

The E60 was universally hated because it was the first 5 Series to employ styling by Chris Bangle.

Before that, the very first BMW that had his design language was the E65 7 Series. People hated these cars because Chris Bangle took BMW's traditional design language, dragged it into a field, and shot it in the face.

People found the designs hideous but over time it turns out, the styling has aged quite well. People, at the time, wanted to pretty much kill Chris Bangle.

[SakhirM4]

Because "hate" is such an overused term in this forum. Unless someone is constantly extolling the virtues of something, they are a "hater". So sad

Now to answer your question, it is because it is an ugly BMW with a Bangle-butt and slab sides.

[dreamingat30fps]

Cause its uuuuuuggggllly! Almost as ugly as the E65. Those were the dark ages of BMW design. I think the new cars look great, however I agree I think they drive like shit, soft and fat which is why I don't have much interest in the new BMWs.

My gf actually traded her Infiniti EX35 for a Cadillac XTS recently. I must say I am very impressed with the Cadillac. It's a huge fwd car but it drives great, doesn't feel very big at all and the suspension is perfect, not soft, but still manages to absorb any hard hits. Plus the interior fit and finish is also great especially for a 3 year old car.

We got an ATS loaner when we took it in once and I really liked that also. Apart from the gauges which I hate how they did them in the ATS I have no complaint and it drives like the older BMWs did IMO. Would totally take that over a basic 3 series.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

The E60 was universally hated because it was the first 5 Series to employ styling by Chris Bangle.

Before that, the very first BMW that had his design language was the E65 7 Series. People hated these cars because Chris Bangle took BMW's traditional design language, dragged it into a field, and shot it in the face.

People found the designs hideous but over time it turns out, the styling has aged quite well. People, at the time, wanted to pretty much kill Chris Bangle.

This is what I would like to do to Chris Bangle.

[Nkc]

Because there was something called an E39.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

The E60 was universally hated because it was the first 5 Series to employ styling by Chris Bangle.

Before that, the very first BMW that had his design language was the E65 7 Series. People hated these cars because Chris Bangle took BMW's traditional design language, dragged it into a field, and shot it in the face.

People found the designs hideous but over time it turns out, the styling has aged quite well. People, at the time, wanted to pretty much kill Chris Bangle.

I remember that very well. I also remember the first bangle 7 I saw on the road and then the first bangle 5 I saw on the road, both were good looking, the 5 in particular was gorgeous.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

We got an ATS loaner when we took it in once and I really liked that also. Apart from the gauges which I hate how they did them in the ATS I have no complaint and it drives like the older BMWs did IMO. Would totally take that over a basic 3 series.

Last year when I was test driving a bunch of cars, the thing I couldn't get over in the ATS and CTS was the interior. Overall quality wasn't up to the same grade as Lexus or the Germans and the gauges were atrocious. I could have lived with the downmarket interior if the gauges didn't look like they were out of a 10 year old Kia.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Nkc

Because there was something called an E39.

I've had a hardon for an E39 M5 for a while too bad they are crazy $$.

[Nkc]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I've had a hardon for an E39 M5 for a while too bad they are crazy $$.

Can be had for under $15k but higher mileage.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by OUGrad05

Last year when I was test driving a bunch of cars, the thing I couldn't get over in the ATS and CTS was the interior. Overall quality wasn't up to the same grade as Lexus or the Germans and the gauges were atrocious. I could have lived with the downmarket interior if the gauges didn't look like they were out of a 10 year old Kia.

Yeah, but I think they will be changing the gauges soon (think I saw a video about it), also the higher trim levels have better quality interior. The interior of our XTS is awesome, full leather everywhere, super comfortable seats, fully digital gauges etc.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Yeah, but I think they will be changing the gauges soon (think I saw a video about it), also the higher trim levels have better quality interior. The interior of our XTS is awesome, full leather everywhere, super comfortable seats, fully digital gauges etc.

Agreed and the CT6?!

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by OUGrad05

Agreed and the CT6?!

Yeah, I try not to look at anything CT6 related because we just got the XTS and makes me want to trade it in for the CT6 LOL!

Originally Posted by Nkc

Can be had for under $15k but higher mileage.

Yeah but we are talking 100k plus miles which starts to worry me. If/when I sell the Z I might start looking for one.

[MKSixer]

We owned both a 525i as well as a 528i of Bangle design and I still own the E63 M6.

These cars were/are beautiful and clearly ahead of their time in design. The flame-surfacing of the major spaces on the vehicles and allowed the light to play on the surface yielding some amazing photographic opportunities.

These cars still look great and will remain iconic BMWs long into the future. When you see one there is no doubt that it is a 5 series BMW. I can't tell a Three from a Five from a Seven from a distance. Just my .02.

[Wolf 335]

E46
E39
E38

Some of the best looking.

[9krpmrx8]

How could you have hate for this? :dunno:

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

How could you have hate for this? :dunno:

When looking at it directly front the front its ok, especially the higher trims with the sportier lip etc. But every other angle is just wrong, especially the rear....

The E63 has actually grown on me some, however I still hate those headlights with the inside out eyelids.

[Xiaoxi]

bit of a tangent but does anyone else hate the new 7 series? Those headlights make me want to throw up. Almost makes e65 look good.