[BEM-S4]

2030 isn't really that far off...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelsc.../#1f71ac4f31d9

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

2030 isn't really that far off...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelsc.../#1f71ac4f31d9

Seems to read that its a mandate for zero emmissions vehicles rather than no IC engines

And how does one measure zero emmissions?

Does that include the electricity generating facilities used to charge an EV?

These mandates always fail

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Seems to read that its a mandate for zero emmissions vehicles rather than no IC engines

And how does one measure zero emmissions?

Does that include the electricity generating facilities used to charge an EV?

These mandates always fail

Don't think it will hold but still the conversation is going.

People often forget the environmental damage done to make the batteries for an electric car. Nickel mining is a dirty, dirty business.

[OutlawX3M]

Very interesting -- they passed something that unenforceable. Makes for great headlines and hopefully no action

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Don't think it will hold but still the conversation is going.

People often forget the environmental damage done to make the batteries for an electric car. Nickel mining is a dirty, dirty business.

Absolutely

There are serious ecological concerns surrounding a number of EV car components not to mention cost and complexity

Hypbrids in the US have been subsidized by the fed gov very heavily

The real costs have yet to be realized

This isnt even considering the AGW nonsense

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by Outlaw M3

Very interesting -- they passed something that unenforceable. Makes for great headlines and hopefully no action

Yet another unfunded feel good mandate.....

In other news.....it remains to be seen whether germany will survive in its current form due to the invasion from the ME and an exponential increase in violent crime

Seems to me that germany has far more pressing concerns than a fantasy mandate for EV's

[CaptainRacing]

So I guess a few days ago German legislation proposed a ban on all new internal combustion engines after the year 2030. It's not official yet since the EU has to vote still but the idea is gaining popularity. Anybody think this is a bit far fetched or is this the sad reality that we are headed for.

[M Pulse]

I think the sad reality is that at some point we won't even own cars anymore!

[Cameronc08]

Originally Posted by M Pulse

I think the sad reality is that at some point we won't even own cars anymore!

As long as they are replaced by sextoy autobots then I don't even care anymore.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Absolutely

There are serious ecological concerns surrounding a number of EV car components not to mention cost and complexity

Hypbrids in the US have been subsidized by the fed gov very heavily

The real costs have yet to be realized

This isnt even considering the AGW nonsense

OMG! And the prius will never last 30,000 miles!

[RABAUKE]

BMW M3 gets better gas mileage then Prius

[RM7]

Originally Posted by RABAUKE

BMW M3 gets better gas mileage then Prius

I would like to see your dashcam in traffic tho if you are driving like that.

[eluded]

Good riddance.

[Nahlem]

Well guys/gals this ain't really a surprise considering we are moving towards fossil free cars, You can argue a lot on how environmental friendly it is to make battery for EV cars and such, But the fact still remains manufacturing combustion engines ain't so environmental friendly either, But on top of that you also get an engine that is spewing out harmful gases and is really an ineffective way of propelling our cars to be honest. So why not reduce it to only one harmful aspect witch would be the production of the battery while the cars remain almost free of emissions. Then at least you have prevented one harmful aspect of it.

The combustion engine is old tech and even if you renew the design around it for all eternity it is still a combustion engine running on fossil fuels witch is an infective way of using energy. And anyone who have worked with combustion engines knows this they do not use the energy in the most effective way witch is a loss. Again if this passes for Germany and the rest of EU it will still only count towards cars made from 2030 and up, But all cars before that will still remain the same.

The next step of this is to make sure our power plants are using renewable sources and hopefully we will develop a fully functional Fusion power plant in the future witch will leads us towards an new technological era.

I am to sad to see our old cars gone they have been wonderful servants and great joy to drive and will probably be around for the rest of my life but i hope when 2030 hits and i am 42 years old we will have awesome technological advancements in both cars and energy harvesting. And BMW will have gone over to completely alternative engines where EVs can go 500-600 km in one charge and be charged in about 5-10 min hopefully. But at the same time keep their awesome driving abilities and luxury feel.

But this is the future we are heading towards either you are against it or you can be a part of it. For continues ultimate driving machines.

[jpnh]

It will be quite humorous to see a country "mandate" this and then watch unemployment go through the roof as the supporting industries for everything from parts to fuel go away

Not to mention the unfunded mandate for individuals to simultaneously pay more for an electric vehicle

At the end of the day such a move would be borderline suicide

What you will probably see is a gradual improvement in emmissions as we've seen in last 50 years as well as improvements in EV's and at some point the market will decide what direction personal vehicles go in

But to expect some tyrannical central planner to dictate what everyone does is a guaranteed recipe for failure....but again.....at its current rate I wouldnt expect Germany to resemble the nation/gov it currently has so it all is probably a moot point

[Efthreeoh]

I don't see this as a far fetched idea at all since the US has essentially done the same thing already under the O'Bama Administration. The Government has declared CO2 as pollutant, which means the EPA gets to regulate the auto industry. Then the EPA passed a 52 MPG fleet average mandate by 2025. Any auto manufacturer will be hard pressed to attain a fleet average of 52 MPG without a large faction of electric vehicles in its fleet.

When Hillary gets elected next month and replaces half the judges in the US with even more liberals, she'll ban the sale of bullets. Keep all the guns you want, you just can't have any bullets for them.... (the Constitution gives you the right to own a gun; it's says nothing about the right to own bullets).

Then you'll really be bitching.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I don't see this as a far fetched idea at all since the US has essentially done the same thing already under the O'Bama Administration. The Government has declared CO2 as pollutant, which means the EPA gets to regulate the auto industry. Then the EPA passed a 52 MPG fleet average mandate by 2025. Any auto manufacturer will be hard pressed to attain a fleet average of 52 MPG without a large faction of electric vehicles in its fleet.

When Hillary gets elected next month and replaces half the judges in the US with even more liberals, she'll ban the sale of bullets. Keep all the guns you want, you just can't have any bullets for them.... (the Constitution gives you the right to own a gun; it's says nothing about the right to own bullets).

Then you'll really be bitching.

Here we go again. I remember back in 2008 when Obummer terk all mah gurns!


Just the fact that mileage has improved so much from the 1990s is amazing to me, thanks for nothing Obama!

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I don't see this as a far fetched idea at all since the US has essentially done the same thing already under the O'Bama Administration. The Government has declared CO2 as pollutant, which means the EPA gets to regulate the auto industry. Then the EPA passed a 52 MPG fleet average mandate by 2025. Any auto manufacturer will be hard pressed to attain a fleet average of 52 MPG without a large faction of electric vehicles in its fleet.

When Hillary gets elected next month and replaces half the judges in the US with even more liberals, she'll ban the sale of bullets. Keep all the guns you want, you just can't have any bullets for them.... (the Constitution gives you the right to own a gun; it's says nothing about the right to own bullets).

Then you'll really be bitching.

Tyrants can mandate all sorts of things but ultimately it comes down to economics as to whether or not its possible.....

As for arms in private hands goes.....there are over 300 million known firearms in private hands in the US......and US citizens purchase over 1 billion rounds of ammo every year......a significant portion of which gets put away for a rainy day.

How do you think thats going to turn out?

[humpday]

The future

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...c=social-email

[Jim B]

[nicknaz]

I thought there was a rumor mill that i8 would be all electric 390hp, and same 3300lb weight

I wouldn't mind if that was the direction of electric m cars

As an aside, I was a passenger in a P90D "ludicrous" at mosport and it ran out of charge after around 7 laps and the electronics when into power reduction to prevent an overheat situation of the batteries and electronics. Hope those get ironed out and the future M cars remain track ready

I think part of my lack of bias is seeing the formula E cars, driving electric go karts and experienced P90D 0-60 when at full power

[MightyMouseTech]

Wow, this is big, passed with 100% support.

The German Bundesrat has voted to ban new gasoline- or diesel-powered vehicles from EU roads starting in 2030.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...gines-by-2030/

Members of the German government have just passed a resolution to ban the sale of internal combustion engines in the European Union by 2030. Only zero-emissions vehicles would be allowed on the market after that time, according to the resolution.



German news magazine Der Spiegel broke the news on Saturday; an English-language report on the resolution can be found at Forbes. The resolution was passed in Germany's Bundesrat, the nation's legislative body representing the sixteen German states, with across-the-aisle support.

The resolution implores the EU Commission to ban the sale of new vehicles powered by gasoline or diesel internal-combustion engines starting in 2030; vehicles sold before the ban would still be allowed, but after 2030, automakers would be banned from selling new fossil fuel-powered vehicles in the EU. As Bertel Schmitt at Forbes points out, the Bundesrat has no direct authority over the EU, and cannot demand changes to the EU's transportation regulations. But with the largest government and most powerful economy in the EU, German government decisions exert huge influence over the EU and the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe.