[nukezero]

It seems to me that there is almost no point in buy BMW M models anymore.

Why? It seems to me that by the next generation or next, next generation, the standard 3 Series whatever, will always be faster than the M3 series from 2 generations ago.

For example, the e46 M3 is not faster than the e9x 335i. Now, the G30 M550i is faster than the F90 M5. So then it is going to be possible that the G-chassis or maybe even the H-chassis 3 series 350i or 360i will be faster than the F80 M3. Right? It might not have the same horsepower, but they'll be so much more advancement in light-weight components, efficiency improvements, etc. that it'll beat the F8x M3.


It seems there's not a lot logical sense into pouring money into M models which are much more high strung, higher maintenance, track-oriented, rougher/harsher ride, and just better off getting a BMW with numbers instead of a BMW M-series.

[Sassicaia]

Speed isn't the only measurement of an M car. It's not just a standard 3 series with a faster engine. An E46 M3 is a memorable all around driving experience while the e9x 335 (to use your analogy) will be find its place in the dustbin of history.

Every M iteration provides a driving experience that future non M generations will never poses.

Sure it's possible a future standard 3 series will be faster then a current F8x, but at the same time there will be an M version drawing the enthusiasts too it that much faster.

Your argument is like saying today's VW golf or Ford Focus is faster then yesterday Porsche so why by a Porsche?

[cruisingdownthestreet]

a helicopter from the top of US Bank in DTLA can get me to LAX airport in 10 minutes so why buy a car?

A motorcycle can park right next to the entrance of a business but you have to fight against spot savers and angry fat americans for THE closest parking spot so why buy a car?

(i'm getting a Doug Demuro vibe out of this thread!)

[RABAUKE]

I have to agree with he two previous posts......when compared to anything a few generations older newer will likely be better. Why buy this years M when next years will be better, why buy a 993 Porsche when the water cooled ones are much better, much more technically advanced and yet 993's are had to come by and are going up in price. You buy an M, or any other premium thing because it speaks to you. Why am I holding on to my Z4MC, there are newer cars that handle better, are faster, have more technology and yet I hang onto the Zed. It speaks to me, it's unique. It speaks to me.

[Blksnowflake]

Ferrari F40 or 458.
F40 allday.

In any case, you're out of context. If outright speed is your only metric then sure, but the new faster G 550 will spark zero emotion and when it goes by, not a f@#k was given, but let an M5 from two generations ago pass by, ooooh, ahhh, wow...M cars have a soul.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by nukezero

It seems to me that there is almost no point in buy BMW M models anymore.

Why? It seems to me that by the next generation or next, next generation, the standard 3 Series whatever, will always be faster than the M3 series from 2 generations ago.

For example, the e46 M3 is not faster than the e9x 335i. Now, the G30 M550i is faster than the F90 M5. So then it is going to be possible that the G-chassis or maybe even the H-chassis 3 series 350i or 360i will be faster than the F80 M3. Right? It might not have the same horsepower, but they'll be so much more advancement in light-weight components, efficiency improvements, etc. that it'll beat the F8x M3.


It seems there's not a lot logical sense into pouring money into M models which are much more high strung, higher maintenance, track-oriented, rougher/harsher ride, and just better off getting a BMW with numbers instead of a BMW M-series.

No one would say that who has driven both cars.

[ShocknAwe]

Might be faster, but driving dynamics aren't as good. Same goes for new ///M car versus the one from 2 generations ago. But yes, there will be a standard 3/4 that will be faster than the current ///M lineup which in all seriousness aside from the 2er, isn't very good. Hell, the Alpina D4 is an absolute beast.

Point? Don't buy a ///M3/4.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by nukezero

For example, the e46 M3 is not faster than the e9x 335i.

Is it? (nordschleife times)

8:22 BMW M3 E46 Horst von Saurma Sport Auto (12/2000)

8:26 BMW 335i E92 Coupe Horst von Saurma Sport Auto

Both driven by one of the most experienced drivers.
And dont forget the considerable gains in tyre technology through the years where the m3 obviously has a disadvantage.

But obviously every generation of bmw's is getting improving compared to its predecessor. The main question is are they getting better quick enough compared to the competition (we live in an age where a current civic beats a current m3 or m2 on multiple tracks...)

[kprocivic]

The op brought up a very valid point. I think the m cars push the base models to be better. Only real car people will respect the m line up. Tuners know with the 20k+ difference can take 10k and beat the m equivalent pretty easy. Bmw m brand use to be the shit, chevy holds the crown now. I'd even put ford ahead of the m line. Great time to be an enthusiast. Ton of choices out there for normal people.

[doogee]

Originally Posted by nukezero

It seems to me that there is almost no point in buy BMW M models anymore.

Why? It seems to me that by the next generation or next, next generation, the standard 3 Series whatever, will always be faster than the M3 series from 2 generations ago.

For example, the e46 M3 is not faster than the e9x 335i. Now, the G30 M550i is faster than the F90 M5. So then it is going to be possible that the G-chassis or maybe even the H-chassis 3 series 350i or 360i will be faster than the F80 M3. Right? It might not have the same horsepower, but they'll be so much more advancement in light-weight components, efficiency improvements, etc. that it'll beat the F8x M3.


It seems there's not a lot logical sense into pouring money into M models which are much more high strung, higher maintenance, track-oriented, rougher/harsher ride, and just better off getting a BMW with numbers instead of a BMW M-series.

You're completely missing the point of what an M car is. I'm going to assume you've never owned one though.

The feeling you get is completely different from a "Series" car.

If you're just looking for straight line speed, you might want to look elsewhere anyway.

[Law]

[BuzzE46]

I blow away 335i cars all the time and even raced a jb4 with my tuned e46 m3, my top end beats them. e92 m3;s as well. the e46 m3 has an excellent chassis and steering, amazing car, each M car is amazing, once you go ///M you cant go back, ill never consider 335i over any M3, just my IMO

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by nukezero

It seems to me that there is almost no point in buy BMW M models anymore.

Absolutely! None whatsoever.

Why? It seems to me that by the next generation or next, next generation, the standard 3 Series whatever, will always be faster than the M3 series from 2 generations ago.

Ok, but wait a minute. Nevermind that for a moment, if we believe the next generation G20 M340i will be faster than the existing F80 M3, then certainly it will be faster than the current F30 340i as well, right?

So not only is there no point in buying an F80 M3, there's also no point in buying an F30 340i either. In fact, if you apply the same logic to the rest of the lineup, you'll quickly realize there is no point to buying a car at all. We can even extrapolate further, and say that in the abstract, there is no point in doing anything today, because doing that thing next year, or in five years, or whatever, will be so much better. Everything advances as time marches on, right?

The clever ones figured this out long ago, of course. That's why I am not creating this message right now. I do all of my post authoring 1000 years in the future where I can merely think something and it appears right there in front of me on my mini holo-cube. Then I just zap it back into the past with my temporal bit shifter. What do I do today you may ask? Well, that's easy. I just sit around doing nothing at all, laughing at all you plebs toiling over all your busy, fussy, empty, miserable lives, while I lie in a slump at home by myself eating Taco Bell in my opioid induced coma. Suckers!

[Gamb1t]

Technology marches on. the point is for consumer to by new M cars.
M cars used to be special. Too many M packages that ruin the mystic. Same applies for AMG. Can you even find a non-AMG CLA?

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Gamb1t

Too many M packages that ruin the mystic. Same applies for AMG. Can you even find a non-AMG CLA?

I also think that will be a problem for the future.
I've even seen bmw 2 grand tourers (I think a 218d lol) with factory fitted m badges (in a review with a press car no less!)

If you look at renault or ford, they use their RS/renaultsport badges only for 1 or 2 of their most hardcore products, but for bmw and mercedes they're just ///Marketing tools for the masses. And in the end that will loose its streetcred.

[FMLYSDN]

Originally Posted by Gamb1t

Technology marches on. the point is for consumer to by new M cars.
M cars used to be special. Too many M packages that ruin the mystic. Same applies for AMG. Can you even find a non-AMG CLA?

I couldn't agree more with your point. At the end of the day it's a business and we are seeing further dilution of the brand, hence the plastering the of the ///M badge on all subsequent models and further increase in product lines. At some point all of the BMW models will have a ///M badge (exaggeration). The things that set the ///M models apart are being blurred and the average consumer cant really differentiate.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by FMLYSDN

I couldn't agree more with your point. At the end of the day it's a business and we are seeing further dilution of the brand, hence the plastering the of the ///M badge on all subsequent models and further increase in product lines. At some point all of the BMW models will have a ///M badge (exaggeration). The things that set the ///M models apart are being blurred and the average consumer cant really differentiate.

It doesn't matter how many ///M badges they put on a 3-series or 4-series model, it doesn't make them an M3 or M4. They don't compare. Putting an ///M badge on a BMW never made it an ///M for all the posers out there.

[FMLYSDN]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

It doesn't matter how many ///M badges they put on a 3-series or 4-series model, it doesn't make them an M3 or M4. They don't compare. Putting an ///M badge on a BMW never made it an ///M for all the posers out there.

Agreed...however i do feel it takes away from the exclusivity of the line.

[bd307]

Right. Your car is the best.

[Gamb1t]

Originally Posted by FMLYSDN

Agreed...however i do feel it takes away from the exclusivity of the line.

That's right.
Subaru sells the Impreza, WRX and STi version. There's no Impreza or Outback STi Sport packages with wide body, pink stickers and STi-badged steering & wheels. When you see an STi. It's a badass STi. No second guessing.

[PoorLurker]

Personally, I would rather just own two generation old M cars than more current non M cars.

335? Personally, I would rather own a beater until I saved for an M car.

If I had to buy a car right now, I would get a base model 3 series. If I had to buy a car when I was ready, I would get the M car.

I am just extreme and don't want to "settle"

(not saying that the 335 is a horrible way to settle, but it's just not my cup of tea)

As I have gotten older I realized that works best for me.

My first bicycle I purchased was a middle of the road bicycle. I rode it for 6 months before I sold it. The second bike was a top of the line bike. I rode it for 5 years. My third bike is also top of the line and I don't see me in any need to get rid of it.

[nukezero]

Okay, maybe I came off as a bit douche. But my point was taken too seriously. No, I never said the 335i was the best car.

What I meant to say was that it does seem true that BMW continues to push the "series" line-up to be as close or if not better than the "M" models from 1 or 2 generations ago (in terms of straight line speed). Of course, perhaps the driving dynamics isn't there or completely as good. But however, we are talking about the fact that M models have been priced out so high that the difference in performance (on the street) just doesn't warrant the price gouging.

Hence, that is why BMW started to badge all their "series" with as much "M"-package components because BMW seems to know people still want the 'M' experience without the true 'M' pricing because it's unaffordable for the average consumer.

I'm speaking for the average joe Consumer. Not the track-oriented enthusiast 'M'-inspired driver. For the most part, BMW is building towards the general mass market consumer anyways. If BMW were to make only M models, (M2-M6 only) I'm not sure their business would survive.

And hence my point is that, it would seem that a money is best spent on just the "series" model.

But what do I know? I guess some people like driving 1994 M3's versus 2016 340i.

And by the way, what about Porsche's ? Aren't they all around a better "track" car than a 'M' series car? (for your money that is)

I mean, isn't a GT4 going to perform better than a M3 dollar for dollar?