[Neema]

Look at this. . . . all in just this week too

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138398

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138346

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138127

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138188

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138185

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137302

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138201

I don't know about you guys, but it sure has killed my Bimmer Fest buzz and put many in a state of alertness and stress. Everyone just needs to relax and realize there are only a few choices to make and a few things to wait on:

Question
How/why do we need to wait for REAL and FACTUAL information as to how the new DME data logs, how/if it can be over ridden, how/if it can be avoided, and what precautionary methods dealers are using against modified BMW's?

Answer
Because then we will know how to avoid these warranty issues, or if they're avoidable in the first place. And until the information above is answered, we just need to relax and realize that we're all far from reaching our 4 year/50k warranty limits and that nothing has happened yet.

Question
Why is BMW cracking down on everyone like this and all of a sudden?

Answer
Well, it's simple, BMW doesn't want to pay for things that go wrong in their car's that is due to your tampering with. Also, with all these higher output, catless, and intake equipped 335i's on the road, BMW will start to face emissions compliance issues. They've probably taken note of the growing volume of people interested in tuning their cars equipped with the twin turbo charged N54 motor (135, 335, 535, 635, and so on) and realize the threat that this poses to their warranty's integrity.

Question
So what hope remains for tunning the N54 via the ECU? I guess we'll all have to revert to stock or else we're done for, right? And even then, the dealer can still see my DME's history and decide weather I've tampered with the car or not, right?

Answer
Again, we need to wait and see how the new precautions BMW is taking against the N54 can be avoided, or if they're avoidable at all. If in fact, the new DME/methods of precaution are near unavoidable or too difficult to deal with, meaning that all(no matter what the tune) forms of tampering with the ECU are always recognizable to BMW and equate to the dishonoring of warranty, then that leaves us with no choice but to consult with Dinan for our tuning needs.

Question
But why only Dinan if the others, like the JB, can work with the new DME?

Answer
Because it's not about whether or not the tune will work with the new precautions/DME, its about the fact they can no longer go unnoticed by the dealer (assuming that a way around the new precautionary methods are NOT found). And since Dinan has it's own(not one through BMW) warranty coverage on it's tuned cars, then that leaves you with no choice but to side with them. Unless you dont mind paying for non warranted repairs.

Question
So, what if I just remove my tune before I go to the dealer?

Answer
Again, until we decipher whether or not there is a solution to the new precautionary methods/DME, simply taking off your tune will not work because as of now it seems that the DME stores vast amounts of sensitive data that can show what has been tampered with by paying close attention to numbers that have to do with boost, fuel, and other parameters.

Question
Does increasing my engine's output with modifications like down pipes, intakes, and an ECU tune mean that my car will "wear" faster?

Answer
Think of modifications to a car, like drugs to the human body. A person on PCP has massive amounts of energy and rage, but that extra energy and rage have negative effects on the human body because it's over exerting itself in comparison to a normal human body, usually resulting in premature problems. However, someone can achieve great psychical strength and stamina through exercise and a healthy diet.


So, just like a human body that has to work harder and stress itself more under the influence of drugs, an engine has to work harder and stress itself more when more power is induced beyond its designed intent. However, just like a human can achieve that same strength through diet/exercise, an engine can safely achieve higher output through upgraded supporting modifications.

So think of it like this: Person on PCP= an engine working harder, Person with PCP like strength, yet safely achieved = an engine working harder, but with the supporting modifications to do so safely. There are lots of variables you could argue about, like the fact that we do not know the exact limits of our turbos, engine block, and so on. But the general concept/laws remain the same that harder working engine parts will fail sooner then the same engine parts working under less stress. A good example of this are race cars. Cars with the output levels of F1 cars and top fuel drag racing cars are so intense and stress full, that even with their level of engineering, the car's and most of their internal parts are either nearly destroyed or severely worn out by the end of a race and need replacement.

This subject could go on for a long time, especially when you get into the subject of supporting modifications like forged pistons, crank cases, cam shafts, and so on. However, no crucial supporting modifications exist to date for the N54, so we'll leave that discussion out, because you can in fact safely tune an engine for more power while greatly reducing the stress it would have originally endured.

Question
So whats a safe maximum PSI level for the turbos in the N54?

Answer
This is, for the most part, unknown and will remain a matter of trial and error. The costs of conducting laboratory like tests of this, and other reliability matters, are very very expensive, so the likely hood of any tuner being able to provide full answers to those questions are slim to none. Your better off contacting Mitsubishi about our turbos and see if they can give you any insight.

Question
Well cant I file a law suit against my dealer if they claim that my modification caused the failure, therefore ridding them of their responsibility to do a warranted repair? Even if I took them off before I went to the dealer, but the dealer claims they've seen/discovered signs of tampering?

Answer
Sure, you could. . . . but it'd be a waste of your time, money, and energy. Though privately owned, your dealer is a representative of BMW NA, so its you versus BMW NA. The costs and fees associated with filling a suit, obtaining a lawyer, and attending court are great and many. So much so, that the costs could far out weigh the costs of your unwarranted repairs. BMW NA has far more resources to work against you in a case. Try to take "I never had an ECU tune" to court and all they have to do is use their vast networks of master technicians, diagnostic tools, and other state of the art equipment to prove you wrong.

Question
Should I go to Bimmer Fest?

Answer
Heck yes! That shits fun yo

Anyway guys, just try and sit tight and take it easy on your cars until this is all sorted out. In the mean time, or or whatever you gotta do to get your mind off of things! The weekend is almost here!

P.S....dont hold me accountable for the information in this post later on down the road when things/answers might change. But as of today, 4/30/08, it's ok

*EDIT* And one more thing. . . I've really been thinking this out. . . and I'm just waiting on REAL FACTUAL information about the new V81 DME and how the DME works in general before I actually have this discussion with myself and take real action.

If in fact, the new DME and/or the methods which they obtain information proving you've tampered with the ECU (one in the same thing) are unavoidable, or too difficult to deal with. . . then its time for some quick action to ensure a financially sound future for myself, in relation to cars.
I'll need to get serious about selling my 335 NOW in exchange for a low mileage Z4 M coupe, B7 S4, or something similar in the 35-50k range. That includes tax, a fully/nicely equipped vehicle, and is for buying, not leasing. So my options do not include the E9x M3 or C63.

Why? Because otherwise, this 335 is a ticking financial bomb just aching and waiting to reek it's havoc on me in the future when very expensive parts begin to break and I'm out of luck because no BMW dealer will warrant my repairs. But why not just keep your 335 and revert to stock? Because the temptation to tune again is too high, and the discouraging lack of power, in comparison to a tuned 335, would bore me to death. So by going with an N/A car, like the Z4 M and the S4, would provide barriers against any serious modifications since A)tunning N/A cars for real power is too expensive, and B) the tunning options are not simple, like simply "chipping" a 335 is.

[Mr. 5]

Yah,
I'll have to agree that it is a little irritating.
The funny thing is that people are seriously treating this like it's breaking news.

A little bit of common sense wouldn't hurt.

Look what happened though--It's nice to not see the tuner wars popping up every 5 minutes.

[Bubbles]

BN

Relax........breath brother....breath.........
You are at a constant Defcon 1.

[McLuVan]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

The funny thing is that people are seriously treating this like it's breaking news.

Well, it IS breaking news to those who have enjoyed "mod friendly" dealers until now.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

BN

Relax........breath brother....breath.........
You are at a constant Defcon 1.

Man, I have been upset and stressed about this stuff ever since I saw the "high boost turbo failures" thread, and all the threads that followed

[L8Apex]

It would be really nice if everyone posted comments on the issue in only one thread.

Can the moderators consolidate please?

[Neema]

Originally Posted by L8Apex

It would be really nice if everyone posted comments on the issue in only one thread.

Geezus, tell me about it!

[Neema]

Originally Posted by McLuVan

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

hah, what

[djrobroe]

good thing i didnt lease the 335 yet... i believe everything happens for a reason.. looks like i'll be leaning more towards an m3 or an s5 if the price is right...

[Neema]

Originally Posted by djrobroe

good thing i didnt lease the 335 yet... i believe everything happens for a reason.. looks like i'll be leaning more towards an m3 or an s5 if the price is right...

relax, there are many questions that have yet to be answered and the forum is in "panic mode." All hope is most certainly not lost yet. . . . . . .







. . . . i just hope those questions get answered with things we want to hear.

[Digital.James]

Wow you really though this one out.

I for one think you should go with a Z4M coupe or another one of your choices if that's what eases your mind. Although Z4M might not be a sound choice financially since the new model Z4 will break soon bringing down previous model values. You should do whatever it takes to get out there and enjoying driving without any worries.

Me I'm in for the power and if I break a few things on the way so be it. Cars going in storage for over a year anyways

[Nyulak]

I'll hit 50k miles on my way to work tomorrow. Fortunately for me, I don't look negatively on the situation, since I knew what I was getting into from the start. Secondly, I have the extended warranty with a cool dealership. As long as I don't get retarded with something, they'll keep me covered.

[McLuVan]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

hah, what

i hope mine doesnt break

[scollins]

No, the real question is WHETHER or not the WEATHER will be nice this weekend.




Just playing internet grammar nazi.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by Nyulak

I'll hit 50k miles on my way to work tomorrow. Fortunately for me, I don't look negatively on the situation, since I knew what I was getting into from the start. Secondly, I have the extended warranty with a cool dealership. As long as I don't get retarded with something, they'll keep me covered.

damn thats crazy, Im at 22k after about a year. I'm thinking about buying an extended warranty too, I'd like the most extensive one available. I hear that a company called Zurich or something like that, has a great one that is truly full coverage and bumper to bumper

[fast_lap28]

man, I'm going to bed and wil probably dream about the BIG bad monster that is now (BMW NA) chasing me in my 335 without any stopping, I will run, run, run hoping she doesn't break down and let the big bad monster catch me!

seriously though guys.....we all had to know at some point or another this type of deal would come down on us and manifest itself in some way. I can't help repeat this in my head....

"YOU PAY TO PLAY" "YOU PAY TO PLAY" "YOU PAY TO PLAY" : drink:

[fast_lap28]

Originally Posted by Nyulak

I'll hit 50k miles on my way to work tomorrow. Fortunately for me, I don't look negatively on the situation, since I knew what I was getting into from the start. Secondly, I have the extended warranty with a cool dealership. As long as I don't get retarded with something, they'll keep me covered.

^^^+10000

[Neema]

Originally Posted by scollins

No, the real question is WHETHER or not the WEATHER will be nice this weekend.




Just playing internet grammar nazi.

man haha, shut up. . . . my posts are usually pretty grammatically and phonetically correct so its all good

[vase330]

Screw BMW, there is always AMG. For the headache and peace of mind, $10K more doesn't seem as exorbitant as it did before, for a mountain of torque, kidney busting rumble of an AMG C63. Minus all the crap, warranty intact and even more power with a better ride.

[scollins]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

man haha, shut up. . . . my posts are usually pretty grammatically and phonetically correct so haha

Thus, the bellyroll and smiley. I don't take myself too seriously (most of the time), but do enjoy a few light-hearted jabs every now and again.

[amuzement]

Originally Posted by vase330

Screw BMW, there is always AMG. For the headache and peace of mind, $10K more doesn't seem as exorbitant as it did before, for a mountain of torque, kidney busting rumble of an AMG C63. Minus all the crap, warranty intact and even more power with a better ride.

Why a c63 and not an M3?