[Matt 335is]

So, I'm considering my first Porsche and love the 3rd generation 981 Cayman, 2014 and newer.

I lust after the Cayman GTS but way out of my price range.

My question is would I regret moving to the base 981 Cayman from an e92 335is? Why?

Should I hold out till the GTS drops(who knows how long) or at least another year for the S to come into my price range?

Thoughts?

Disclaimer: I have not driven the Cayman yet but will soon, trying to figure out if I'm waisting my time.

[dgoldenz]

GTS prices hold pretty strong, they won't be coming down under ~$60k any time soon. I'd look for an S model that has GTS-like build/options if you want to keep the cost down. There is a huge difference in options on every car, so you really need to do your research and figure out which options you want/need. Then the search begins for the perfect build...it can be a long search.

[HyeWarrior]

Don't go for the base Cayman. You'll regret it after a year

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by HyeWarrior

Don't go for the base Cayman. You'll regret it after a year

This. And if you've played around with the build your Porsche thing at all online you'll realize the different options are endless, so find one you like and be patient.

That said from a practicality point of view the Cayman is a world away from your current car. If it's your only car you need to have a come to Jesus talk with yourself about whether or not it will suit your needs.

[mremg]

Originally Posted by HyeWarrior

Don't go for the base Cayman. You'll regret it after a year

I'm curious if it's still the case with the turbo 718.

[c1pher]

I would not buy a 718. Maybe a 718s, but really if you get any Cayman, the old flat six S is the sweet spot. Sounds beautiful. Porsche could not make the four cylinder sound as wonderful. The 2.5l sounds a little better than the base 2.0l though. Porsche kind of messed up putting a four cylinder in. Granted it's a beautiful car, but you have a Golf R motor (who cares if its flat 4 vs inline) with exactly the same power output. Yes, yes it handles better and is a smidge faster, but if you're spending $70-80k, go for a base 718s instead. I couldn't help but feel like Porsche was trying to get away with something when I drove the 718. At that price point, I feel like I shouldn't be compromising too much and sound is a big part of any sport car driving experience. Porsche forgot that part.

One of the awesome things about my 135is is the sound. The pops, crackles and burbles along with the braps on the upshifts. It just sounds special and matches how special the car is. It matches what the car is doing, encouraging you to continue to drive it. At least that's what an awesome car sound does for me.

My advice, save a little money and find a nicely optioned 2014/5 Cayman S. You will be happier and I bet it will hold value longer. If you notice, 718 are sitting on the lot longer and you will find lots of low mileage 718 for sale after the few hundred mile shine has worn off.

[mremg]

While I get what you're saying, but the ship has already sailed. 981S are already in 60-70k range and no sign of going down anytime soon. The base 718 has almost enough torque as the outgoing 981S and can be carefully specced close to that. Not to mention, I can spec my own car to my liking.

Flipside, the 981 will probably hold it's value very well.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by mremg

While I get what you're saying, but the ship has already sailed. 981S are already in 60-70k range and no sign of going down anytime soon. The base 718 has almost enough torque as the outgoing 981S and can be carefully specced close to that. Not to mention, I can spec my own car to my liking.

Flipside, the 981 will probably hold it's value very well.

Can't argue with your logic.

[The Wind Breezes]

I say go for it, just be sure you've done your due diligence on test drives and are happy with the power!! The car is a total improvement on your 335is in every way except easy power potential. Well, and space, but you already know that. Porsche warranty is great and for what the car costs you probably don't want to mess with even something as simple as a flashtune and risk voiding it. Err, assuming the car you buy is still under warranty, that is, otherwise you pretty much have nothing to lose.

[mremg]

I test drove a base 981 Cayman not too long ago and was very disappointed with the power. I don't necessarily mean lack of torque but it just felt a bit weak. For the record, I really like the FR-S/BRZ twins and many other 'adequately' powered cars like Miata. In this case, the base spec just felt very boring.

I say either go 981 Cayman S or look into the 718. If you insist on the base spec 981, look into the GT86 twins. Almost 90% of the base Cayman (without the sound) and you'll save a lot of cash.

[NickyC]

GT350?

[Viffermike]

My two cents, for the OP and in response to MGM135is :

Background: I have a 718 Cayman on order. Before deciding, I drove it, a 2015 981S, and a 2014 911 Carrera back-to-back-to-back.

Originally Posted by MGM135is

I would not buy a 718. Maybe a 718s, but really if you get any Cayman, the old flat six S is the sweet spot. Sounds beautiful. Porsche could not make the four cylinder sound as wonderful. The 2.5l sounds a little better than the base 2.0l though. Porsche kind of messed up putting a four cylinder in.

No company is going to make a blown 4-pot sound the same -- some would say "as good" -- as an NA six. Be real. Porsche has very good reasons for going with the blown flat four in the 982 -- and like another poster said, "That ship has sailed". Thing is, the 982/718 is a superior sports car to the 981 base or S -- even in base form. Porsche had to make it so to make up for the perceived heresy of the four-pot switchover.

Originally Posted by MGM135is

Granted it's a beautiful car, but you have a Golf R motor (who cares if its flat 4 vs inline) with exactly the same power output. Yes, yes it handles better and is a smidge faster, but if you're spending $70-80k, go for a base 718s instead. I couldn't help but feel like Porsche was trying to get away with something when I drove the 718. At that price point, I feel like I shouldn't be compromising too much and sound is a big part of any sport car driving experience. Porsche forgot that part.

I respectfully differ in opinion. The 718 sounds different. It's still a sporty-sounding motor. (And you're comparing it to a Golf R motor? Really? Those motors are totally different in basic design. The comparison is inane.) It doesn't howl like a 981, or a 991.1 for that matter. But it also makes use-able power and torque below 3,500 rpm, which the 981 doesn't. That's the fundamental difference between the two motors besides the sound: the 718 motors have a modern flat torque curve and less peaky horsepower curve, and that, combined with makes the 718 a better sports car pretty much everywhere except a track with a long straight.

Originally Posted by MGM135is

One of the awesome things about my 135is is the sound. The pops, crackles and burbles along with the braps on the upshifts. It just sounds special and matches how special the car is. It matches what the car is doing, encouraging you to continue to drive it. At least that's what an awesome car sound does for me.

Hey: if you went to rev the snot out of your 981, go for it. I don't want to have to do that. (Oh, and the 718 pops/gurgles, too.)

Originally Posted by MGM135is

My advice, save a little money and find a nicely optioned 2014/5 Cayman S. You will be happier and I bet it will hold value longer.

I won't argue with the resale point; that's likely true. But if you're buying a Cayman for resale value first, you're buying a sports car for the wrong reasons. A better reason to choose a used 981 would be that you're not taking an initial depreciation hit. That said, 718s will hold value just fine.

Originally Posted by MGM135is

If you notice, 718 are sitting on the lot longer and you will find lots of low mileage 718 for sale after the few hundred mile shine has worn off.

This is misinformation. While 718 Cayman sales are down, 718 Boxsters are selling better than the 981 did -- and if 718s are sitting on lots for extended periods, I'm not seeing it where I live.

As for the 718-dump statement: A quick check of Porsche Searchagent reveals 70 CPO 2015-2016 981 Caymans (base and S) nationwide ... and six CPO 2017 718 Caymans (base and S) nationwide. I'd hardly call that a dump, sir.

OP: your best bet is to do what I did: drive a 981 and a 718 back-to-back. My bet is that you come to some of the same conclusions I did.

[tranquility]

Retrogrouches really rub me the wrong way. Just because an engine's 4 cyl and/or turbo doesn't automatically mean it sucks. All these 'traditionalists' simply can't think for themselves, I bet if they heard the engine in a vacuum w/o any comparisons they'd think it's pretty good. Besides, a sportscar to me is yes, the sound's important, but the driving characteristics is much much more important. Otherwise, I'd just give you a tape of whatever you think is the best sounding engine, you can wear your headphones and lie on the couch listening all day, while us real sportscars enthusiasts go for a spirited drive.

[c1pher]

I have said nothing about the performance metrics. It's pretty clear the 718 is superior to the outgoing car. The interior and exterior is very nice too. However after driving them, and yes they handle and accelerate marvelously, I didn't feel like they were as special as before. Sorry, but that's my opinion.

And sorry, I'm a bit skeptical VAG didn't share technology across brands on their motors regardless of the arrangement. It's all marketing and of course arrangement in the car to maintain balance. I will admit being wrong if there is proof otherwise.

And the beauty of it is it's your money to spend, but since I'm talking about my money and he was asking for advice, I stand by my comments. I certainly won't take time to berate you because you don't like something.

Also, I don't know how you search for cars, but I can find 718s $5-6k off sticker. You can't do that with an M2. I'm happy to find a few on lots for you and if you want to tell me what you're looking for.
This is just one example:
https://huntsville.porschedealer.com...7+Black+855104

FYI, I'm not a retrogrouch. But just because something is new doesn't always mean it's better. Especially just because Porsche tells you it is.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Retrogrouches really rub me the wrong way. Just because an engine's 4 cyl and/or turbo doesn't automatically mean it sucks. All these 'traditionalists' simply can't think for themselves, I bet if they heard the engine in a vacuum w/o any comparisons they'd think it's pretty good. Besides, a sportscar to me is yes, the sound's important, but the driving characteristics is much much more important. Otherwise, I'd just give you a tape of whatever you think is the best sounding engine, you can wear your headphones and lie on the couch listening all day, while us real sportscars enthusiasts go for a spirited drive.

I love 4 cyl motors btw.

[ORIGIN M.]

I'd keep that 335is.

[Red Bread]

How the hell would you even begin to share parts between a flat four and an I4?!

Just look at the schematic for turbo routing for an EA888 vs the 718 motor. Even if they shared pistons, con rods and valves, they'd behave nothing alike.

Do you also believe that the 982 motor was essentially the VW VR6 just because they both had six cylinders?

OP, if you don't need the rear seats, dynamics of a Cayman/Boxster are massively better than anything BMW has ever built, you'll enjoy the switch.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

How the hell would you even begin to share parts between a flat four and an I4?!

Just look at the schematic for turbo routing for an EA888 vs the 718 motor. Even if they shared pistons, con rods and valves, they'd behave nothing alike.

Do you also believe that the 982 motor was essentially the VW VR6 just because they both had six cylinders?

OP, if you don't need the rear seats, dynamics of a Cayman/Boxster are massively better than anything BMW has ever built, you'll enjoy the switch.

No one said share parts.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

No one said share parts.

Okay, technology. Do you think Toyota did a lot for the GT86 motor? They designed the dualmode fuel injection that's caused a ton of lean out issues, but left Subaru in charge of everything else because Subaru understands boxers. What would Porsche stand to gain from VW about four cylinders, especially boxers?

Not like we're talking about 924's here, when VW (technically Audi) was in charge of the motor. Even the newer V6's in Macans and Touregs and others were developed by Porsche, not VW.

The EA888 is a great motor, but has so little to do with the Porsche four pot, I don't see why there's any threat of them being related. As likely as the Ferrari F488 motor and the Dodge Ram V8 having much in common.

[c1pher]

I don't know anything about the Toyota motors.

I'll let you all continue to advise the OP.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

No one said share parts.

Then don't make a comparison. Because there pretty much is none.

Look: I respect the opinion you have come to, just as I understand those who prefer the 981 over the 718. It just felt like a reach at times -- and your Golf R motor quip helped with that cheapening.

And thank you for acknowledging that the 718 is a superior sports car. It is -- and not just because of the numbers and the performance. For instance, I found the interior tweaks between models to be spot on. The 718 interior is a big improvement over the 981s, particularly in the steering wheel, infotainment, and materials used. As I said before: Porsche had to make the 718 better because it knew the hell it would go through with purists -- of which I consider myself to be one. I'm just also a realist, and Porsche simply couldn't have made the 718 much better than it is with the turbo-4s.

[mremg]

While I agree with most of the points made above, I think the Golf R motor is rather good. In fact, Mark Wan of Autozine concluded that the 4-cyl in the Golf R/S3/TTS is a better motor in many ways because it is better suitable for a single turbo. The reason being that the EA888 only has a single cylinder bank while the boxer in 718 has two cylinder banks. Having two cylinder banks means two turbos make sense (hence the 911 has two turbos) but alas the 718 only has 4 cylinders, which means due to the firing order 1-3-2-4 each turbo will get uneven pulses. So the 718 opts for a single turbo connected to both the cylinder banks (like a Subaru boxer) and gets all the flaws of that configuration like increased turbo lag, terrible sound (like a Subaru boxer).

So the VWAG Inline-4 make more power, has lower turbo lag and arguably sounds better. But why didn't Porsche use it? I think it has more to do than just 'badge' pride. The Inline-4 probably won't fit in the current Cayman engine bay and also importantly boxers have low center of gravity and rev high which is important for a car like 718.

Personally, they should've ditched the boxer in the 718 and redesigned the car to utilize a small inline engine like the Audi 5-cyl Turbo motor. Hell with low center of gravity, a mid-engine 5-cyl? Sign me up.