[M235ForNow]

Currently driving an all the bells and whistles (I don't THINK I missed any ...) M235i. Leased and the lease will end in a year. So, not surprisingly, considering what comes next.

The 235 is great - really enjoy it. But it's an automatic and I'm strongly considering going back to a manual (which I've driven for 3 decades and only went auto so my wife could more easily drive the car). And thinking of going the other direction - NOT all the bells an whistles. Namely 230 with a stick. As "simple" as a BMW gets nowadays.

But if I'm looking for simple and fun, the ND Miata rears its not-ugly head. I don't do top-down driving during the day; just in the morning or evening. Which means a lot of top up. Thus negating the open-air vibe. But the Miata is light and according to many, a super-fun to drive car at all speeds. But it's smaaaaallll! Smaller than my prior small Z-cars.

So what am I writing for? A few things. Those who have personal experience between the two vehicles - your input would be valued. Especially with regard to the manual. I've been reading the forums of both cars and generally the Miata comes in for high praise for the stick. As I can attest having driven it. But I've been reading some concerning posts vis a vis the 228 (and I'm extrapolating 230 as well). Namely an over-attentive ECU that plays with the throttle mapping and makes shifting a pain rather than a pleasure. My experience with manual BMWs has been in simpler cars. 2000 Z3 2.5, 2001 3.0 and 20(I forget) Z4 3.0is. The only nit I recall is that the 3.0 Z3 had a bit of rev trickery baked in that sometimes caused a problem. (Note that I relieved all cars of their CDVs early on). Anyway, other than the longish throws, they worked pretty well.

I haven't sampled a 228 manual. Kind of hard to find on a dealers lot. So the shifting is an issue that I'm going to find it difficult to assess w/o external input. Soooo, if you've got that input, I'm all ears!

[aozer]

why not 240 with mt? seems like a weird transition to me.

[amw896]

Like aozer mentioned....why not go 235/240 with a manual? It's pretty damn good!

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by aozer

why not 240 with mt? seems like a weird transition to me.

Slow car fast/Fast car slow. And 230 isn't slow. 235 is fun, no doubt, but I'm thinking the 228 will provide enough speed, lighter front end, better gas mileage. They're both turbos so there's no diff in that regard.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by amw896

Like aozer mentioned....why not go 235/240 with a manual? It's pretty damn good!

My answer to aozer went up juuuust before your post!

[p912guy]

When I bought my m235i, I seriously considered the Miata. The ND had just come out with rave reviews. I'd also flirted with a Miata back in 2011 when I purchased my MINI Cooper S. When I started shopping for a new car to replace my MINI last fall, I was reminded why I chose the MINI over the Miata back in 2011. It was simply too small to live with as a DD. The driver's seat is comfortable, but the passenger leg room is partially eaten up by the transmission and I knew I couldn't subject my wife to that. Add to all this a very smallish trunk and no other place to put things and I knew, no matter how fun drive, I'd regret buying the Miata and quickly.

I'll second the notion of a 235/240 with a MT, and better yet a convertible with a MT. That's what I have and I love it. While it's often to hot during the summer to drive with the top down during lunch or heading home, I have the top down most mornings heading to the office, and many other times in the evenings, not to mention great Spring and Fall days.

For me, the m235i MT Vert had everything I was looking for: convertible, MT, spacious trunk, not commonly seen on the street, fun to drive, powerful, luxurious and comfortable for cruising long distances. Besides the Miata, I also strongly considered a 981 Boxster, Audi TT Cabriolet, and convertible versions of the Mustang and Camaro, but none could match the the total package of the m235i.

Best of luck as you make your choice.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by p912guy

When I bought my m235i, I seriously considered the Miata. The ND had just come out with rave reviews. I'd also flirted with a Miata back in 2011 when I purchased my MINI Cooper S. When I started shopping for a new car to replace my MINI last fall, I was reminded why I chose the MINI over the Miata back in 2011. It was simply too small to live with as a DD. The driver's seat is comfortable, but the passenger leg room is partially eaten up by the transmission and I knew I couldn't subject my wife to that. Add to all this a very smallish trunk and no other place to put things and I knew, no matter how fun drive, I'd regret buying the Miata and quickly.

I'll second the notion of a 235/240 with a MT, and better yet a convertible with a MT. That's what I have and I love it. While it's often to hot during the summer to drive with the top down during lunch or heading home, I have the top down most mornings heading to the office, and many other times in the evenings, not to mention great Spring and Fall days.

For me, the m235i MT Vert had everything I was looking for: convertible, MT, spacious trunk, not commonly seen on the street, fun to drive, powerful, luxurious and comfortable for cruising long distances. Besides the Miata, I also strongly considered a 981 Boxster, Audi TT Cabriolet, and convertible versions of the Mustang and Camaro, but none could match the the total package of the m235i.

Best of luck as you make your choice.

We're similar in our tastes. I came THISSSS close to buying the latest Boxster/Cayman but, weirdly, the seat just didn't work for me. Not the base seat, not the upgraded one and not the super duper one that I had trouble running down but found in a 911 in Socal when I was on a trip. Hard to believe but true.

I have a funny relationship with verts. I've owned three and enjoyed them a bunch. But I also don't like noise (acoustic engineer with a STRONG desire to keep my hearing pristine as my dad had severe tinnitus and it's not fun). So - obvious issue with convertible noise.

I also had a deposit down on TT when it was first announced and think the recent Mustangs look absolutely great.

Every time I actually get into a Miata I say "wow - just toooo small". But then I see them on the road and remember how responsive they are and the itch returns. Perhaps I need to wait until used NDs get down into the teens and then buy one as a toy.

Gonna have to take a 230/240 vert out for a drive and evaluate. However, is a manual even available with one of them? I thought I saw something to that effect. I don't have a 2018 price/option sheet so can't check for sure.

[p912guy]

I don't believe you can get a MT in a 230 Vert, only the coupe, but you can definitely get a MT in the 240 Vert. You likely won't find one on any dealer lots though so you will probably have to order one if that's what you decide on.

Regarding the Boxster, I have always wanted one and will probably have one one day. I thought it would be fun owning two Porsches separated by 50 years, ('66 912 and '16 Boxster) At the time, I was concerned I wouldn't be able to get my hockey sticks and hockey bag (play twice a week) into the Boxster and I feared I would have trouble getting some of my sailing equipment into it too. I had a high mileage 2005 Nissan Titan but it was showing it's age and drank gas like you wouldn't believe so I didn't want count on driving it 2 or 3 days a week. Now I have the new GMC Canyon, so that's not an issue any more. My other concern with the Boxster was the high cost of Porsche maintenance and repair, and ultimately that was the reason I decided to get the m235i instead, and I have no regrets.

[bryan_G01]

just get an e92 m3 manual than...

[bryan_G01]

Originally Posted by M235ForNow

Slow car fast/Fast car slow. And 230 isn't slow. 235 is fun, no doubt, but I'm thinking the 228 will provide enough speed, lighter front end, better gas mileage. They're both turbos so there's no diff in that regard.

theres a huge difference in the two of them.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by p912guy

I don't believe you can get a MT in a 230 Vert, only the coupe, but you can definitely get a MT in the 240 Vert. You likely won't find one on any dealer lots though so you will probably have to order one if that's what you decide on.

Regarding the Boxster, I have always wanted one and will probably have one one day. I thought it would be fun owning two Porsches separated by 50 years, ('66 912 and '16 Boxster) At the time, I was concerned I wouldn't be able to get my hockey sticks and hockey bag (play twice a week) into the Boxster and I feared I would have trouble getting some of my sailing equipment into it too. I had a high mileage 2005 Nissan Titan but it was showing it's age and drank gas like you wouldn't believe so I didn't want count on driving it 2 or 3 days a week. Now I have the new GMC Canyon, so that's not an issue any more. My other concern with the Boxster was the high cost of Porsche maintenance and repair, and ultimately that was the reason I decided to get the m235i instead, and I have no regrets.

I almost always order my cars so that's no problem. And I just got the option list. As you stated, MT available on 240, not on 230. Always with the complications!

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

theres a huge difference in the two of them.

You misunderstand. I was saying that they both are turbocharged - no difference as there would be if one was turboed and the other not. Of course they're different engines. The point I was alluding to was that they both have the potential for turbo-lag; they're the same in that regard. Unlike the straight six NA engines I've had in the past. And the Miata has no turbo.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

just get an e92 m3 manual than...

That would a move in the opposite direction from the issue I brought up originally. I was interested for less power, not more.

Now if you'd said an E46 ZHP, that I could get behind it.

[bensanford]

Originally Posted by M235ForNow

I almost always order my cars so that's no problem. And I just got the option list. As you stated, MT available on 240, not on 230. Always with the complications!

The way I read the guide, the MT is available on both the 230i and 240i coupe. Not available on the 230 or 240 x-drive coupe.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by bensanford

The way I read the guide, the MT is available on both the 230i and 240i coupe. Not available on the 230 or 240 x-drive coupe.

I believe that is not correct for 2018:

[snaketh]

Originally Posted by M235ForNow

That would a move in the opposite direction from the issue I brought up originally. I was interested for less power, not more.

Now if you'd said an E46 ZHP, that I could get behind it.

I'm curious as to why you want less power. Is it too easy for you to get to illegal speeds in the 235? I don't think you can really feel the weight between the vehicles. I drove them back to back and couldn't feel it. Just felt like the 228 had less linear power delivery.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by snaketh

I'm curious as to why you want less power. Is it too easy for you to get to illegal speeds in the 235? I don't think you can really feel the weight between the vehicles. I drove them back to back and couldn't feel it. Just felt like the 228 had less linear power delivery.

The difference in weight over the front tires is going to affect the turn-in (in a good way). The 230 has the power of an E36 M3. That's a goodly amount. Four non-staggered tires. Basically it's about the same as an E36/E46 in size and a bit more in power and I always thought those were sweet points for the 3. So - modern version.

I don't "need" 4.7s 0-60 and don't use it. So why not have power commensurate with the way I drive? And it comes with the bonus of better fuel economy and less expensive maintenance/repairs. All good (to me). As long as it "feels" good in the driving.

The lack of a stick in the 230 is definitely a bummer.

[msej449]

I'd strongly suggest that you actually try out the M240i manual before dismissing it in favour of a 230i.

I drove the 228i against the 235i and I simply didn't see any sort of handling advantage with the smaller engine. What I did feel was a much more effective engine in the 235i. For me it's not just about absolute BHP and 0-60: the bigger engine was just more relaxing in ordinary traffic and more responsive as a performance unit. The logical end-point of the 'But I don't need 328BHP' is that you don't need anything more than a base 218 (which would be fine, by the way, if that's your choice - just try it out first).

I do have tinnitis (permanent 24x7) and I don't think that convertible noise was any sort of contributor to its emergence. Many factors will determine whether you develop it or not, but I'd obviously defer to you doctor if they're told you to avoid high sound levels. However, the sound levels in an open 2 Series with the wind deflector in place are impressively low, relatively speaking. Again, give it a go with a deflector in place and see what you think.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by msej449

I'd strongly suggest that you actually try out the M240i manual before dismissing it in favour of a 230i.

I drove the 228i against the 235i and I simply didn't see any sort of handling advantage with the smaller engine. What I did feel was a much more effective engine in the 235i. For me it's not just about absolute BHP and 0-60: the bigger engine was just more relaxing in ordinary traffic and more responsive as a performance unit. The logical end-point of the 'But I don't need 328BHP' is that you don't need anything more than a base 218 (which would be fine, by the way, if that's your choice - just try it out first).

I do have tinnitis (permanent 24x7) and I don't think that convertible noise was any sort of contributor to its emergence. Many factors will determine whether you develop it or not, but I'd obviously defer to you doctor if they're told you to avoid high sound levels. However, the sound levels in an open 2 Series with the wind deflector in place are impressively low, relatively speaking. Again, give it a go with a deflector in place and see what you think.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. The hearing protection is just lifelong practice (and the fact I've got better hearing response than the 20 year olds that I teach is persuasive evidence that it's been effective). But the noise I was alluding to wasn't actually top down - it was the general noise top up. The 235 coupe I drive is pretty quiet; the Miata is decidedly not. Haven't tried a 2 vert of any sort. When I'm just commuting I'll use the time to dictate scripts to myself on a digital recorder. Lower background noise is nice to have for the transcription afterward.

Trying ANY manual 2 ahead of time is problematic. The question is finding one. But clearly a desirable thing.

I actually did an extensive test drive of both 228 and 235 (both autos) when I got the 235 and found them both to be powerful and responsive. 235 more so, clearly. Wish I had a clearer recollection of the particulars but those impressions have floated down the river of time and out of recall.

Is your 235 a manual or 8 speed?

[Chili_Palmer]

OP- I completely understand where you are coming from with the conundrum you have. I was looking for something rear drive, manual, and fun to drive before I ordered my 230i and the ND was on the list. Being my DD I wanted something I'd enjoy getting into and putting 70+ miles on five days a week. I also subscribe to the slow car fast/fast car slow mantra, although I have found the 230i is no slouch.
I went the BMW route over the Miata due to size. My dad had a 1990 NA that he DD'd for about 10 years and it was fine for his <5 mile commute but longer treks at high speeds got tiresome due to short gearing and a noisy top, not to mention minimal space. I did test drive a ND both on the street in normal driving and at the Rolex 24 where Mazda had a autoX set up to give a more spirited feeling of the cars. It was fun but I don't know how well I'd be able to live with it day in and day out.
As for not being able to find a manual 2er to test drive, I know that headache. I had driven other BMW manuals in the past and remembered them being excellent gearboxes but I still had some worries. I read quite a few reviews both on here and through different publications all while trying to track down a manual to drive myself. Alas, I was unable to source one that I could test drive but I was set on the car so I placed the order and sat anxiously awaiting the car's arrival. I am very glad I did pull the trigger and could not be happier with the car. The shifts are smooth and take minimal effort and the pedal placement is spot on for spirited driving. The power output of the B46 is more linear than the N20 that I test drove making it seem like it is always ready for a press of the accelerator.
Good luck and I hope you find what fits you best.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by Chili_Palmer

OP- I completely understand where you are coming from with the conundrum you have. I was looking for something rear drive, manual, and fun to drive before I ordered my 230i and the ND was on the list. Being my DD I wanted something I'd enjoy getting into and putting 70+ miles on five days a week. I also subscribe to the slow car fast/fast car slow mantra, although I have found the 230i is no slouch.
I went the BMW route over the Miata due to size. My dad had a 1990 NA that he DD'd for about 10 years and it was fine for his <5 mile commute but longer treks at high speeds got tiresome due to short gearing and a noisy top, not to mention minimal space. I did test drive a ND both on the street in normal driving and at the Rolex 24 where Mazda had a autoX set up to give a more spirited feeling of the cars. It was fun but I don't know how well I'd be able to live with it day in and day out.
As for not being able to find a manual 2er to test drive, I know that headache. I had driven other BMW manuals in the past and remembered them being excellent gearboxes but I still had some worries. I read quite a few reviews both on here and through different publications all while trying to track down a manual to drive myself. Alas, I was unable to source one that I could test drive but I was set on the car so I placed the order and sat anxiously awaiting the car's arrival. I am very glad I did pull the trigger and could not be happier with the car. The shifts are smooth and take minimal effort and the pedal placement is spot on for spirited driving. The power output of the B46 is more linear than the N20 that I test drove making it seem like it is always ready for a press of the accelerator.
Good luck and I hope you find what fits you best.

Quite similar 2's! Mine's terra leather as well. LSD and perf exhaust installed at the port. The exhaust is fun but I think on the next car a little less burble and pop will be just fine.

Very happy to hear that you've both got BMW manual experience AND find the 230's manual to be excellent.

[SteveInfante]

I have had my 228 6MT for over 61K miles and love this car more than any other I've owned. Clutch engagement point is just about right for my seating position. I've been Stage 1 BMS tuned for over 10K miles and it made it significantly more fun and didn't hit my mileage at all. I'm running the square 17x7" mesh wheels with 215/45/17 in place of the RF's and it made a big difference as well. Someday when this thing either dies or I give it to my son I will most likely get another. I love the terra leather but wish I had the Sport seats. Premium, cold weather, and lighting are the packages I have.