[ezatnova]

Nothing GROUND BREAKING here that I can tell, but scary/disconcerting/disheartening, etc etc nonetheless.

Anyway, went in for a tail light recall and they said they needed to update to 29.2 while they had it, so they kept it overnight.

Picked up the car today and while I'm in there I ask the SA, playing dumb, "Hey, I heard about some Dinan flash thing, what's the deal and do you know anything about it?" Now, my dealer is NOT a Dinan linked dealer, but there are two others within 20 miles that are, so they darn well should at least be aware of it. SA responds that he heard of it but doesn't know enough to tell me and walks me over to the group of techs standing in the bays. He introduces me to them and throws out the question "Hey, what do you guys know about a Dinan tune?"
The lead tech jumps in and just starts ripping into it with "I'll tell you right now, you do NOT want to mess with a Dinan tune. It will mess up your car and void the warranty instantly. They were not authorized to edit BMW's code, yet they hacked/cracked it anyway and are doing things to this motor that will damage it, and it is an expensive motor. BMW is sueing Dinan right now and they are breaking all ties and their implied warranty will be usless. I am shocked that any dealer is even offering the flash anymore and I wouldn't expect that to continue for long at all. Just don't mess with that."

Youch. Now, before anyone accuses me of making up negative propganda, I don't know what I can do but swear that it's true...I literally just came back from the dealer, where I went during my lunch to get my car back. While I HAVE been anti-Dinan in the past (purely because of cost and non-resale factors, the quality I like), I have actually just started to CONSIDER GETTING the flash now that this huge cluster-f is hitting the fan with 29.2 and the general scary crackdown on piggies and all. Anyway, this is not settling to hear from my dealer.

[slubu]

I do not doubt that he said that, but for him to say that the tune will "mess up your car" and "damage" the motor destroys his credibility.

[Mattscott]

BMWNA will not warranty the car, but Dinan will. You'll be fine.

[Potty_Pants]

go to one of the many dinan dealers... and ask the same question...

"hey SA do you know anything about the Dinan tune ???"

lol

you'll get a completely different story. and btw kinda similar to stories from one auto dealer to the next... my car is better then XYZ.

ppp

p.s. and btw what you dont know is at least one of those mechanics if not the one you spoke to has a proceed or another piggy... lol

[sdwilly]

The only interesting thing I found is this is now the second time I've heard of BMW suing Dinan.. Not that I find much truth in it, just find it interesting.

[HPIA4v2]

Originally Posted by Mattscott

BMWNA will not warranty the car, but Dinan will. You'll be fine.

Not bashing Dinan, but time will tell.
I have a feeling BMW is cracking the whip on mods right now; and if BMW blindly voiding waranty without any hard proof on fail-to-mod thing. It'll be interesting if Dinan can pick up so many claims on little things, like warp rotor etc. (I am not even talking blown engine here).

[Mattscott]

Originally Posted by HPIA4v2

Not bashing Dinan, but time will tell.
I have a feeling BMW is cracking the whip on mods right now; and if BMW blindly voiding waranty without any hard proof on fail-to-mod thing. It'll be interesting if Dinan can pick up so many claims on little things, like warp rotor etc. (I am not even talking blown engine here).

at 200+ FLASHES PER MONTH. Thats $400,000 a month for an item that costs them NOTHING, I'm sure they'll have you covered.

[Potty_Pants]

Originally Posted by HPIA4v2

Not bashing Dinan, but time will tell.
I have a feeling BMW is cracking the whip on mods right now; and if BMW blindly voiding waranty without any hard proof on fail-to-mod thing. It'll be interesting if Dinan can pick up so many claims on little things, like warp rotor etc. (I am not even talking blown engine here).

I feel the point in which bmw is getting silly with their denying claims solely based upon the dinan flash. This will be when Dinan gets legal involved and they support the 1000's of dinan flashed owner's in court. Dinan isnt going to take it laying down but they arent going to rock the boat until there is major $$ involved.

ppp

[Mattscott]

Originally Posted by Potty_Pants

I feel the point in which bmw is getting silly with their denying claims solely based upon the dinan flash. This will be when Dinan gets legal involved and they support the 1000's of dinan flashed owner's in court. Dinan isnt going to take it laying down but they arent going to rock the boat until there is major $$ involved.

ppp

Yeah Dinans legal team is one that could actually give BMW's legal team a run for their money. No pun intended.

[HPIA4v2]

Originally Posted by Mattscott

Yeah Dinans legal team is one that could actually give BMW's legal team a run for their money. No pun intended.

Not sure that what Steve D. would do, I can't and won't sue the hand that feed me.

[Potty_Pants]

Originally Posted by HPIA4v2

Not sure that what Steve D. would do, I can't and won't sue the hand that feed me.

If the hand that feeds you is feeding you poison...

ppp

[slubu]

Dinan provides BMW a list each month of the cars they have tuned, they are likely not suing each other.

[slubu]

Plus what damages would BMW be suing for? Having to pay for warranty repairs? No, Dinan is paying. From taking their profit? No, they don't even offer a flash. Even if they did they cannot block other from doing the same thing.

[cwn23]

I can't see BMW continuing the relationship with Dinan in light of all this new piggyback or tuning software...If they are against tuning of thier cars, it would be kind of silly to continue with Dinan...I think they will honor the Dinan tunes after those of a certain time period, and anything after that will be considered red flagged....This is really sad, and in doing so will lose alot of perspective buyers in the future!!!

[ulises 335i]

so when you go dinan your bmw warranty is gone? Wouldnt that be a problem when people return their leased dinan tuned cars?

[HPIA4v2]

Originally Posted by ulises 335i

so when you go dinan your bmw warranty is gone? Wouldnt that be a problem when people return their leased dinan tuned cars?

Not an expert just following my logic.
Lease usually goes for 24-36 mo, that means the car still have about 1 year left on Dinan waranty (since BMW drop the waranty already).
So in ideal world dealer should :
1) bring the car back to stock (re-flashing)
2) run CPO inspection

The problem will arise if new customer want to extend the waranty, since Dinan doesn't want to deal with it (so wouldn't BMW). Hope the 3rd party waranty co doesn't know what's going on and step in.

[ulises 335i]

ok I get it now , so does dinan even flash leased cars?


To first post: I think those tech were just talking shit.

[Herms]

Originally Posted by Potty_Pants

I feel the point in which bmw is getting silly with their denying claims solely based upon the dinan flash. This will be when Dinan gets legal involved and they support the 1000's of dinan flashed owner's in court. Dinan isnt going to take it laying down but they arent going to rock the boat until there is major $$ involved.

ppp

sorry, I disagree. Dinan has no incentive to get involved. BMW denying warranty claims has no effect on them. They sell the flash and people are or should be aware that BMW may deny them coverage, and Dinan provides their own warranty. Unless BMW does something that cuts into Dinan's bottom line, like preventing them from selling flashes, I don't see them getting involved. In fact, the more BMW fusses over the warranties, the better Dinan looks relative to other tuners since it provides its own warranty (albeit one that I strongly believe will not prove that useful).

[Potty_Pants]

Originally Posted by Herms

sorry, I disagree. Dinan has no incentive to get involved. BMW denying warranty claims has no effect on them. They sell the flash and people are or should be aware that BMW may deny them coverage, and Dinan provides there own warranty. Unless BMW does something that cuts into Dinan's bottom line, like preventing them from selling flashes, I don't see them getting involved. In fact, the more BMW fusses over the warranties, the better Dinan looks relative to other tuners since it provides its own warranty.

Herms,

the incentive on Dinan's part would be the massive influx of denied warranty claims dinan must absorb.

ppp

[Herms]

Originally Posted by ulises 335i

so when you go dinan your bmw warranty is gone? Wouldnt that be a problem when people return their leased dinan tuned cars?

yes, assuming they know you had the flash, which is apparently the purpose of the new software. I posted something about this the other day. Not sure what happens. Some have suggested the return option is voided, but I find it difficult to see how they enforce that (you can't make people spend money they don't have to buy a car and if they try to continue payments and you default, then well now they take the car back anyway). I'm speculating that they could claim excessive damage or something and just try to bilk people for some extra money when they turn the car in. Again, how do you value the remainder of the warranty in the absence of any damage to the car? This would be very interesting, and if it happened to me I'd fight them relentlessly on it until they got sick of me. Of course, query whether you encounter any problems at all if you go in looking to get a new BMW, as opposed to just turning the car in.

[Herms]

Originally Posted by Potty_Pants

Herms,

the incentive on Dinan's part would be the massive influx of denied warranty claims dinan must absorb.

ppp

don't see that happening. the Dinan warranty isn't a warranty for any claims BMW denies, it's for damage caused by the Dinan products. The flip side of the dealer making a "reasonable" (i.e. tenuous) argument that the Dinan product caused the problem is that Dinan will no doubt say it had nothing to do with them. Case in point: someone with a flash who gets denied fuel pump replacement even though it's a common problem on non-tuned cars as well.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by ulises 335i

ok I get it now , so does dinan even flash leased cars?


To first post: I think those tech were just talking shit.

Yes, but what's strange is a BMW SA told me that the car must be returned to stock at turn in. The implication is that BMW can not CPO a car that has had a tune. Remember, not all used BMW's sold on BMW lots are CPO. Some are "as is". The bigger problem would be if the previous owner used a piggyback and a potential used buyer took a look under the engine cover to look for signs of an install/removal. I don't know if BMW's used car dept is selling those cars "as is".