[DuSh]

What kind of sick mind can imagine a world where acceleration will no longer mean anything as every family sedan will be able to do that just as fast? Electric future is not so much fun: every granny in her family Pontiac Seville will be able to keep up with your super expensive supercar. Autopilots and a single gear transmissions. No exhaust sounds and appliances on wheels that will only differ by range (if even that) and amount of USB ports inside

For me it seems like a world is ending soon and we are going to fall victims of our own progress. Big part of my life was dedicated to cars - but I see no point enjoying the future that is upon us

[eleniki]

Originally Posted by DuSh

What kind of sick mind can imagine a world where acceleration will no longer mean anything as every family sedan will be able to do that just as fast? Electric future is not so much fun: every granny in her family Pontiac Seville will be able to keep up with your super expensive supercar. Autopilots and a single gear transmissions. No exhaust sounds and appliances on wheels that will only differ by range (if even that) and amount of USB ports inside

For me it seems like a world is ending soon and we are going to fall victims of our own progress. Big part of my life was dedicated to cars - but I see no point enjoying the future that is upon us

That would be a sad world. On the other hand, without an intention of sounding rude, it would be fun to see all those pushy mothers of "future sports legends" rallying to the football fields.

[GuidoK]

Apart from the humvees in that video there is only 1 car that has not been tested at the Nordschleife.
ONLY 1!
Guess and guess why....







To me the end of the world is car enthousiasts forgetting about corners....

[Sedoy]

Not really sure about your point... it's also the only sedan which can fit 7 passengers. Most Tesla buyers probably don't even know/care about Nordschleife. It's not really on the top of their priorities. But if you care about Nurburgring so much, you should know about this:

All-Electric NIO EP9 Shatter the Nurburgring Lap Record: 6:45

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...roduction-car/

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Apart from the humvees in that video there is only 1 car that has not been tested at the Nordschleife.
ONLY 1!
Guess and guess why....







To me the end of the world is car enthousiasts forgetting about corners....

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Not really sure about your point... it's also the only sedan which can fit 7 passengers.

You're not sure about my point?
My point is the point of the TS of course. He insinuates that fun is coupled to acceleration. And shows a video where the tesla is fastest. However 8 out of ten of those cars have a shape and layout that has been the result of optimisation for a track. So judging a ferrari, or mclaren or cayman on its acceleration is only a fraction of its purpose. Maybe the TS is influenced by the very very narrowminded comment on the youtube video by motor trend channel:
" facing off in an epic quarter-mile sprint for glory... and ultimate bragging rights! "
The makers of most of those cars had something else in mind.....

All-Electric NIO EP9 Shatter the Nurburgring Lap Record: 6:45

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...roduction-car/

You think I dont know about this?
But where is that car in the video?
Is that a car that complies with the TS view of:

as every family sedan will be able to do that just as fast? Electric future is not so much fun: every granny in her family Pontiac Seville will be able to keep up with your super expensive supercar.

I think not....
And the Nio EP9 is a 1.5 million dollar supercar. And (from what I know) as of yet not for sale.
So why would you bring that up.....


and thus: To me the end of the world is car enthousiasts forgetting about corners....

Yes I'd love to take an EP9 out for a spin.... or any other EV that handles properly.

[Sedoy]

^^^ I see, but expecting more form video which has "drag race" in the title is a little to much. I think that most *normal* people understand that the results will be different under actual track race. The point of this video was a drag race of 13 subject cars, and Tesla won - good job. No really sure why everybody get so offended by Tesla wining drag races.

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

^^^ I see, but expecting more form video which has "drag race" in the title is a little to much. I think that most *normal* people understand that the results will be different under actual track race. The point of this video was a drag race of 13 subject cars, and Tesla won - good job. No really sure why everybody get so offended by Tesla wining drag races.

Because it's just the beginning, give it a time to advance and soon we'll see appliances will dominate track too - just the matter of time sadly (as soon as next gen of battery technology comes - it will be game over and afaik we are on the verge of new battery tech - maybe 5 more years). Because, a whole enthusiast world is coming to an end. It's not only track and corners. For many it's also freedom to drive (no autopilots), good exhaust (instead of simulated speakers sound) and a MT (instead of 1 gear AT that 99% of electric cars will have) etc. All this will be no more in 99% of cars in our lifetime, not to mention our kids - they won't even know what ICE or MT is to begin with
I wish I was wrong and future will not be as dim

[GuidoK]

^^I'm not offended by tesla winning drag races. I never said or implied that.
I'm just amaized that on a european car brand forum there are topics that tend to make believe that drag races are equal to setting the bar at invigorating sportcars (supercars)...

Its not tesla winning the drag race, but its the conclusions that are tied to it.

Its just like you said, the tesla is also the only 7 seater, and, when made a video about storage space, I'm sure the tesla would have won also. But I also dont couple that to an invigorating drive, and certainly not the kind of drive those other cars were developed for.

But I gues for some people the world is made out of traffic lights. For others it's made out of corners

Originally Posted by DuSh

Because it's just the beginning, give it a time to advance and soon we'll see appliances will dominate track too - just the matter of time sadly (as soon as next gen of battery technology comes - it will be game over and afaik we are on the verge of new battery tech - maybe 5 more years). Because, a whole enthusiast world is coming to an end. It's not only track and corners. For many it's also freedom to drive (no autopilots), good exhaust (instead of simulated speakers sound) and a MT (instead of 1 gear AT that 99% of electric cars will have) etc. All this will be no more in 99% of cars in our lifetime, not to mention our kids - they won't even know what ICE or MT is to begin with
I wish I was wrong and future will not be as dim

Yes at some point electric cars will dominate track times. Once battery tech has the stamina and a better power/weight ratio it'll be invincible as you can disperse them throughout the vehicle, and an electric motor has almost unlimited power/torque for the size that can be fitted in a car. And that electric motor can be very precisely modulated so traction is much higher than an ICE can ever achieve.
But the car that will go around the track fastest wont be the one that mirrors the tesla, or what the TS describes so wonderfully as "every granny in her family Pontiac Seville will be able to keep up with your super expensive supercar."
It will still look somewhat like that ferrari or mclaren with a similar layout. Low and wide.
The NIO EP9 looks imho more like a ferrari or other supercar than like a pontiac seville or tesla s

[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

...

But I gues for some people the world is made out of traffic lights. For others it's made out of corners

Let me rephrase it the correct way (unfortunately): "...for most people the world is made out of traffic lights. For few others it's made out of corners..." That's the reality and that's where the world is going (again unfortunately).

[GuidoK]

Let me quote myself:

To me the end of the world is car enthousiasts forgetting about corners....

I'm not talking about 'most' people.
I'm talking about enthousiasts. (on a european car brand forum that has the motto: "freude am fahren" no less)

For 'most people' they make 'most cars'. cars that are totally uninspiring, bland.
Thats why bmw started to make the 2 active/grand tourer.... to serve those.

[kprocivic]

When I seen that video I was happy to see just how close these cars are to the Tesla. It's like when the Veyron came out it would just destroy everything. Before it made it's exit it wasn't that much faster then the rest.

[SaltyNC]

It will be a very different world for the tuning market, that's for sure. No aftermarket intakes, exhausts, etc, but there will still be suspension mods, wheels, tires, probably some will try to out-do the battery management software from the manufacturer and make "ludicrous mode" power dumps for EVs. Maybe instead of an exhaust, you'll buy your custom exhaust notes on iTunes.

Salty

[Sedoy]

Unfortunately car makers concentrate on what 'most' people want to maintain their profits (or future profits). That's why you see BMW start making FWD crap, no manuals and dead steering feel and investing tons of money into electric cars with autonomous driving. The reality is that they start to care less and less about enthusiasts (you hear me BMW?) and the future doesn't look that bright for the typical petrol car enthusiast.

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Let me quote myself:

I'm not talking about 'most' people.
I'm talking about enthousiasts. (on a european car brand forum that has the motto: "freude am fahren" no less)

For 'most people' they make 'most cars'. cars that are totally uninspiring, bland.
Thats why bmw started to make the 2 active/grand tourer.... to serve those.

[Mingwan]

Not sure what the point is here. Because the Tesla won a rigged drag race, it’s the end of ICE? There are probably different reasons why ICEs will eventually stop being produced, I don’t think this is one of them.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Unfortunately car makers concentrate on what 'most' people want to maintain their profits (or future profits).

I dont think that goes for all car makers, but sure to some extend to bmw.
On the other side you have alfa romeo making the ultimate comeback.
They've said with the start of the '09 recession that they wouldnt develop new models until that recession is over.... and when time is there they come with a RWD kickass car with ferrari derived engine that whoops all competitions tails on the track.
So there still are brands that truely focus on the real enhusiast.
Cuore sportivo so to say
And there is of course this totally insane fwd hatch nordschleife battle going on for about 10 years now that has been producing some very nice cars (renault megane rs, Leon cupra R, Civic type R etc.)
So also on that front the real enthusiast gets his kicks.

These are all events bmw could learn from. (although the 1M and M2 are very nice)