[Clark_Kent]

Disappointing to see this. I'm seeing nothing to distance Alfa Romeo from the reliability generalizations.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ability-update

[D22M2]

One of the best sounding 6 cylinder engines around...almost as nice as the N55

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Paying for a Quadrifoglio, but driving a Chrysler 300 in between repeated visits to the dealer. That is a truly scary thought.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Paying for a Quadrifoglio, but driving a Chrysler 300 in between repeated visits to the dealer. That is a truly scary thought.

Sadly it’s better than the base Fiesta/Focus I would get when my GT350 was laid up for months over a couple of summers. Not that base 320/328 are great that I’ve gotten from BMW, but much preferable to those other cars.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

Disappointing to see this. I'm seeing nothing to distance Alfa Romeo from the reliability generalizations.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ability-update

This plus no manual/inconsistent dealer experiences I read about were the biggest reasons I came back to BMW over a QV. I hope Alfa sticks around though and works out the bugs/establishes a long term confident presence in the US because I really really like my test drives in them. If they can get that stuff figured out a bit better I would like to give them a try someday or get my wife one. She really likes the look of them as do I inside and out.

[Tuxedo]

multi new looking Alfa Romeo Stelvio's on other New Dealer used lots spotted earlier this week and was thinking someone already had enough worth taking a bath on a deal.

[Fender150]

Totally expected, if you live in countries that have a ton of italian cars, fiats, alfas and lancias you will know! Old or new, steer completely away lol!

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by Fender150

Totally expected, if you live in countries that have a ton of italian cars, fiats, alfas and lancias you will know! Old or new, steer completely away lol!

lol, this reminded me of the famous Top Gear Burned-To-The-Ground-Lancia Photo Gallery

[10"]

Originally Posted by Aboen

One of the best sounding 6 cylinder engines around...almost as nice as the N55

I really like the N55 and really enjoyed the sound of my 135is when I had it; but the Alfa engine is waaaaaaaaay better sounding. It sounds totally fierce in a way the N55 never can. A far superior engine to the N55.

[saeyedoc]

Maybe they need a soundtrack on a USB stick so you can hear the Alfa's engine while you're driving the Chrysler 300.

[Funf6cyl]

I have heard the Quads have been pretty reliable from many other owners and corraborated on the Giukia forums. Apparently they did make a fix for 2018 and you can get some great deals on them. IMO a far better car to drive than anything in the segment except maybe the C6:S coupe.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Read this headline and immediately envisioned Alfa dealers issuing minivan loaners.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Tuxedo

multi new looking Alfa Romeo Stelvio's on other New Dealer used lots spotted earlier this week and was thinking someone already had enough worth taking a bath on a deal.

Stelvio is the cheapest looking vehicle out of the factory on sale today.

[positiveions]

That’s why I was in no rush buying one. Alfa’s are only good while they are under warranty.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by minn19

This plus no manual/inconsistent dealer experiences I read about were the biggest reasons I came back to BMW over a QV. I hope Alfa sticks around though and works out the bugs/establishes a long term confident presence in the US because I really really like my test drives in them. If they can get that stuff figured out a bit better I would like to give them a try someday or get my wife one. She really likes the look of them as do I inside and out.

I was really disappointed in Raleigh when they decided to essentially consolidate service with the Dodge/Ram dealer in the next lot. I had a Fiat Abarth that was being serviced by a Fiat/Alfa dealer and then without notice the next time I go in, I’m supposed to take me car to Dodge? I was really smitten by the 4c and was seriously considering buying until that event.

[eluded]

Originally Posted by positiveions

That’s why I was in no rush buying one. Alfa’s are only good while they are under warranty.

And even then it might be in the shop so you can't drive it. Alfas are extremely unreliable

[Poiseuille]

just stunned to read these suggestions that mid-priced Italian hot-rods might be, errrrrr, less than reliable.....stunned I say!

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Poiseuille

just stunned to read these suggestions that mid-priced Italian hot-rods might be, errrrrr, less than reliable.....stunned I say!

I know, right?

Almost nothing mechanical and has four wheels that is made in Italy is reliable. This truism has applied for decades. Decades. The only real exceptions are some Italian motorcycles (Aprilias, mainly -- especially its scooters) and, IIRC, ItalKart go-karts.

Meanwhile, there's this ad-fueled clickbait drivel from Autobytel, which names the Giulia as the No. 1 most reliable European car in 2018. After laughing my way through that list, I vowed never to read (much less click through) another anything by that entity again.

[BEM-S4]

One of my lawyers has a Guila - he was bitching about it being in the shop all the time. It is a first year model. I told him in all seriousness if he thought his Italian chariot would be anything but trouble I needed to seriously reevaluate heeding his counsel. Alfisti take a perverse pleasure in the challenges of ownership. I quoted Tom Hanks in Major League to him "the hard is what makes it great, if it were easy everyone would do it."

End of the day he's not an Alfisti, not a bad thing just is what it is. For those who love them no mechanical issues will matter, for those who don't love them they never will.

[Run Silent]

As much as I have a special place in my heart for Alfa, I know better than to attempt to own one again. Back in the late 90's, I purchased a mint one-owner 1986 Alfa Spider Quadrifoglio with about 20k miles on her.

I absolutely loved everything about that car......when it wasn't trying to kill me.

In the span of 18 months and about 10k miles, it broke down on me three times. Note I didn't say it broke, I said it broke down. I have owned close to 30 cars in my lifetime, and this was the only car I ever had that actually broke down, before or since. When things went wrong, it wasn't that a window wouldn't roll up, or the A/C would stop working - those I could have handled. Things would break that would leave me stranded and just like in the article, Alfa had such horrible parts support that inevitably the part needed wouldn't be in stock anywhere in the USA, so there the car would sit - for weeks on end.

I still miss that car, and sometimes entertain the idea of clicking 'bid' on BAT for some of the nicer ones, or consider looking at a nearly new Giulia - but then my brain kicks me and reminds me of what is to come.

FWIW - my father worked as a senior service director for the largest Alfa dealer in the southeast back in the 80's. He was sent over as part of a delegation to Italy to help offer insight as to why quality control was so bad. He summed it up in this story:

Dad: "Why is the leather coming apart on the seats before the cars even arrive to the showroom?"
Luigi: "Is notta my fault, it is a Mario's fault"
Mario: "Isa not my fault, isa Luigi's fault"
Dad: "Well, you are using the correct leather supplier, right?"
Mario: "No no, sir, I founda much better quality leather supplier, isa my cousin. He get better quality, I use him instead."

End result? Graft and refusing to take blame for anything was the primary cause of quality failures. No surprise, really. Seems it has yet to be solved.

[Viffermike]

There are just some things the Italians do horribly, and other things the Italians do really, really well.

It's largely cultural: How manufacturing is defined and approached, how business is accomplished, how its citizens accept homegrown products into daily life. Italy has been, in many ways, a mess since World War Two because it culturally can't reconcile many fundamental differences between old-world and new-world economies of scale. Part of this is political. But a ton of it is cultural, especially relating to the value of the available skills of the labor force.

Simply put, no Western country places more value on skilled laborers than Italy does. The problem is that those skills are often not valued outside of the culture -- and when they are, it's at such a rarefied level -- fashion, textiles, and winemaking are three great examples -- that it's not translatable on a large-enough scale to matter to the economy as a whole. Another problem is that economic leadership frequently comes from leaders in these skilled fields. That does little to nothing to help the country progress.

There are entities that have overcome this bias in Italy -- Luxottica (eyewear), Mark Bass (pro music equipment), Aprilia (motorbikes), and Fiat-Chrysler to an extent -- but even that latter example has 'special' qualities that are very, well, Italian. The country is at a major crossroads with this issue because the EU has exposed (and covered for) many of those weaknesses, and the country is increasingly anti-immigration while basically refusing to attempt to convert its active and emerging labor forces. Until some of it shifts, Italian manufacturing quality -- whether in-country or outside of it -- won't improve overall.

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

There are just some things the Italians do horribly, and other things the Italians do really, really well.

It's largely cultural: How manufacturing is defined and approached, how business is accomplished, how its citizens accept homegrown products into daily life. Italy has been, in many ways, a mess since World War Two because it culturally can't reconcile many fundamental differences between old-world and new-world economies of scale. Part of this is political. But a ton of it is cultural, especially relating to the value of the available skills of the labor force.

Simply put, no Western country places more value on skilled laborers than Italy does. The problem is that those skills are often not valued outside of the culture -- and when they are, it's at such a rarefied level -- fashion, textiles, and winemaking are three great examples -- that it's not translatable on a large-enough scale to matter to the economy as a whole. Another problem is that economic leadership frequently comes from leaders in these skilled fields. That does little to nothing to help the country progress.

There are entities that have overcome this bias in Italy -- Luxottica (eyewear), Mark Bass (pro music equipment), Aprilia (motorbikes), and Fiat-Chrysler to an extent -- but even that latter example has 'special' qualities that are very, well, Italian. The country is at a major crossroads with this issue because the EU has exposed (and covered for) many of those weaknesses, and the country is increasingly anti-immigration while basically refusing to attempt to convert its active and emerging labor forces. Until some of it shifts, Italian manufacturing quality -- whether in-country or outside of it -- won't improve overall.

but such race cars they made.....
One of my favorite automobile museums is the Alfa factory museum outside Milan. My avatar is a picture taken there. Take a close look at the car pictured below. You can see that it has two parallel twin cam sixes. Inside the cockpit you can see that it has two separate transmissions. Only one transmission has a shift lever, and that lever is connected by a long bar to the other transmission where it's shifter normally would be. Now here it comes: it has two drive shafts and two diffs! Imagine backing that thing out of the garage! I must have taken a hundred pictures in that museum......