[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Okay so I'm a bit worried and was looking at actually figuring out what's going on. This a long one, just to explain everything properly.

Cold is coming and I think it's due to that mostly, but I just want reassurance I'm not actually going to kill my transmission by next year?

This morning I go out to do my short commute to the bus parking and it's about -10c (14 f). Go into 1st, it's a bit more notchier/harder to push it and I figure that's normal until it warms up. Shift into second, it went well.

Come back from work to the bus parking. Temperature is now a bit hotter, about -6c (20 f), first gear act the same but then shifting into second does this weird winding down noise. I did not hear actual grinding, maybe it wasn't loud enough, but physically it felt like if it was pushing me out of gear. Kinda felt as if clutch pedal wasn't all the way in, I think, as I never really shifted without it properly in.

This occurs somewhat rarely but still, I'm just worried. Can I drive this car when it's cold or should I not? I could avoid using it everyday and take the bus from home but going to the parking it's much quicker for my bus commute.

Also as a side note, when it's colder should I be shifting with more force or go soft while pushing it into a gear?

[ctuna]

Never force it .
If it won't go in try to double clutch
meaning let the clutch in an out from neutral.
You could try redline D4
it helps with notchy shifting.
Also when your at stop stay in neutral and
let the clutch out . Saves the springs and throwout bearing
and is safer.

[SnapCoupe]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Okay so I'm a bit worried and was looking at actually figuring out what's going on. This a long one, just to explain everything properly.

Cold is coming and I think it's due to that mostly, but I just want reassurance I'm not actually going to kill my transmission by next year?

This morning I go out to do my short commute to the bus parking and it's about -10c (14 f). Go into 1st, it's a bit more notchier/harder to push it and I figure that's normal until it warms up. Shift into second, it went well.

Come back from work to the bus parking. Temperature is now a bit hotter, about -6c (20 f), first gear act the same but then shifting into second does this weird winding down noise. I did not hear actual grinding, maybe it wasn't loud enough, but physically it felt like if it was pushing me out of gear. Kinda felt as if clutch pedal wasn't all the way in, I think, as I never really shifted without it properly in.

This occurs somewhat rarely but still, I'm just worried. Can I drive this car when it's cold or should I not? I could avoid using it everyday and take the bus from home but going to the parking it's much quicker for my bus commute.

Also as a side note, when it's colder should I be shifting with more force or go soft while pushing it into a gear?

If the shifter itself is not going into the gear and you feel resistance, never force it. Instead, try putting it into neutral, letting the clutch back out, and trying again. Forcing it will quickly wear out your synchros.

If you haven't flushed your trans fluid in the last 20-30k miles, I would try that and see if it helps. I know on my car it would do the same thing you described but with 1st gear instead of second. After flushing the trans and getting some new fluid in there, it never did it again.

[nsjames]

change the trans fluid.

it sounds like the friction modifiers suck, and in the cold weather it's interfering with syncronizer mesh.

Second the redline recommendation. I'd put whatever they suggest in it and be happy.

[ctuna]

There are some big threads here on what is the golden oil
for manual transmissions.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by ctuna

Never force it .
If it won't go in try to double clutch
meaning let the clutch in an out from neutral.
You could try redline D4
it helps with notchy shifting.
Also when your at stop stay in neutral and
let the clutch out . Saves the springs and throwout bearing
and is safer.

Okok so always glide the shifter into the gear.

I read about redline but I decided to end up with OEM fluid to keep everything running fine.

Thanks for the tip, I always do that.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by SnapCoupe

If the shifter itself is not going into the gear and you feel resistance, never force it. Instead, try putting it into neutral, letting the clutch back out, and trying again. Forcing it will quickly wear out your synchros.

If you haven't flushed your trans fluid in the last 20-30k miles, I would try that and see if it helps. I know on my car it would do the same thing you described but with 1st gear instead of second. After flushing the trans and getting some new fluid in there, it never did it again.

Ok got it. So always just glide the stick into gear, don't force it to much.

As for fluid, yeah I changed it about a month ago aswell with diff oil. I went with OEM spec fluid.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by nsjames

change the trans fluid.

it sounds like the friction modifiers suck, and in the cold weather it's interfering with syncronizer mesh.

Second the redline recommendation. I'd put whatever they suggest in it and be happy.

Originally Posted by ctuna

There are some big threads here on what is the golden oil
for manual transmissions.

I wanted to stick with OEM fluid.

But like I don't mind to much, just that how bad is it when it happens? How much life am I removing to it? Like I said no actual grinding yet.

[nsjames]

trust me when I say that redline has transmission fluid figured out.
possibly the best GL4 oil on the planet. I would use whatever they recommend with confidence, and enjoy my transmission that shifted better than factory. It's all I use in aisin transmissions, a notoriously notchy when cold family of gear boxes.

as to the wear, do you understand how syncros work in a transmission?
They're soft brass and they speed the gear shaft up or down so that the gears can mesh properly without grinding. If you oil sucks, and the syncros are not locking in quickly, they will wear. You will find glittery gold bits in the oil. If the syncros wear to the point that they loose the little nubs that grab the next spinning gear, they will fail to work and you will either grind gears or have to double clutch every shift.
at that point you're pulling the box out and replacing all of them. This is a big problem when people use regular gear oil in transmissions with yellow metal syncros, as the sulfur in GL5 oils eat them

[ctuna]

I have been running redline D4 for about 4 years and had notchy
one and two shifts with OEM . That disappeared when the redline
went in and hasn't come back. Also slicked up my Integra shifter.

If the notchiness goes away that has to be better than grinding gears.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by ctuna

I have been running redline D4 for about 4 years and had notchy
one and two shifts with OEM . That disappeared when the redline
went in and hasn't come back. Also slicked up my Integra shifter.

If the notchiness goes away that has to be better than grinding gears.

Originally Posted by nsjames

trust me when I say that redline has transmission fluid figured out.
possibly the best GL4 oil on the planet. I would use whatever they recommend with confidence, and enjoy my transmission that shifted better than factory. It's all I use in aisin transmissions, a notoriously notchy when cold family of gear boxes.

as to the wear, do you understand how syncros work in a transmission?
They're soft brass and they speed the gear shaft up or down so that the gears can mesh properly without grinding. If you oil sucks, and the syncros are not locking in quickly, they will wear. You will find glittery gold bits in the oil. If the syncros wear to the point that they loose the little nubs that grab the next spinning gear, they will fail to work and you will either grind gears or have to double clutch every shift.
at that point you're pulling the box out and replacing all of them. This is a big problem when people use regular gear oil in transmissions with yellow metal syncros, as the sulfur in GL5 oils eat them

Hmmm okay.

I'll double clutch shift in the first few minutes of driving then I guess?

We will see if actual grinding noise occurs when it gets colder if it does I guess I'll put in Redline D4.. (Edit: redline website shows Redline D6)

[ctuna]

Yes D6 is there current recommendation its not to different.
I would look up the manual transmission threads here and
study them.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Really don't want to change my fluid again. I wanted to stick with OEM spec also to avoid issues.

If BMW had this fluid in the car it means it should be fine tho right?

[PhaseP]

Sounds like this is your first manual transmission. I had several during my life time different brands. Winter time they all are difficult to shift with varying degree. Don't expect quick shifts in winter, until transmission fluid warmed up, which can take a long time, since it is not directly warmed by the engine heat.

I have found Fuchs Titan Sintofluid manual transmission oil to be on the good side at cold weather for my transmission. I have an XI so it is a ZF transmission.

Each transmission fluid also has its own characteristic and works differently.
The OEM is pretty good I think. I liked the Fuchs better, it is more smoother for me. But that is again me and my transmission with the wear I put on it.

One thing to make sure is your transmission oil level is not low, that can effect shifting regardless of oil type.

And winter, don't force it but try steady, firm, slow gear changes. For 1st to 2nd try staying on the 1st gear longer than usual, i.e. keep the RPMs up before going to 2nd. Try if it helps, if it doesn't don't keep trying it

Another thing that helps sometimes with cold weather from 1st to 2nd, going to neutral and then to 2nd (without double clutching). Double clutching always helps as long as you match the rpms close, which is the purpose of double clutching. You get the engine input side shaft rpm match the drive line shaft (I don't know the exact/correct terms, layout shaft etc) inside the transmission by blipping the engine at neutral. So that instead of synchros taking the slack and matching the speed of the shafts, they are already speed matched.

At cold I have trouble with going into 1st at stand still sometimes. If I push on the lever and then ease back and immediately push again, it always goes in. This may also help depending on your situation

You need to experiment a bit.

As long as you are not grinding gears, which you hear distinct gear grinding, you are not causing much damage.

[Pladi]

When you did your transmission OIL change (not fluid) did you make sure the level was good. This is important. Your "OEM oil should be good enough. If you have to put " better" oil then you might have some issues already. It should run OK with OEM oil.

I dont see what the double clutching is going to do.. i say dont do that. Never good for your clutch..

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Pladi

When you did your transmission OIL change (not fluid) did you make sure the level was good. This is important. Your "OEM oil should be good enough. If you have to put " better" oil then you might have some issues already. It should run OK with OEM oil.

I dont see what the double clutching is going to do.. i say dont do that. Never good for your clutch..

Yeah, at first when I filled it up I filled like a bit more than the spec (I think, one bottle had leaked a bit so) and it wasn't leaking I was really worried I overfilled and car maybe was crooked on the jack stands?

So I said F it not taking chances, when to my buddy's shop with a lift and removed the fill bolt and nothing came out, added just a bit more fluid and it started leaking and replugged in.

So I know my fluid level should be on point. And I shifted really hard/aggressive after my change and no grinding or issues at all in sport driving. So I'm positive my fluid change went well

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by PhaseP

Sounds like this is your first manual transmission. I had several during my life time different brands. Winter time they all are difficult to shift with varying degree. Don't expect quick shifts in winter, until transmission fluid warmed up, which can take a long time, since it is not directly warmed by the engine heat.

I have found Fuchs Titan Sintofluid manual transmission oil to be on the good side at cold weather for my transmission. I have an XI so it is a ZF transmission.

Each transmission fluid also has its own characteristic and works differently.
The OEM is pretty good I think. I liked the Fuchs better, it is more smoother for me. But that is again me and my transmission with the wear I put on it.

One thing to make sure is your transmission oil level is not low, that can effect shifting regardless of oil type.

And winter, don't force it but try steady, firm, slow gear changes. For 1st to 2nd try staying on the 1st gear longer than usual, i.e. keep the RPMs up before going to 2nd. Try if it helps, if it doesn't don't keep trying it

Another thing that helps sometimes with cold weather from 1st to 2nd, going to neutral and then to 2nd (without double clutching). Double clutching always helps as long as you match the rpms close, which is the purpose of double clutching. You get the engine input side shaft rpm match the drive line shaft (I don't know the exact/correct terms, layout shaft etc) inside the transmission by blipping the engine at neutral. So that instead of synchros taking the slack and matching the speed of the shafts, they are already speed matched.

At cold I have trouble with going into 1st at stand still sometimes. If I push on the lever and then ease back and immediately push again, it always goes in. This may also help depending on your situation

You need to experiment a bit.

As long as you are not grinding gears, which you hear distinct gear grinding, you are not causing much damage.

Yes, I am a beginner/novice manual driver. First car was a 2004 330ci with the 6 speed that where I learned but only had the car for 2 months. After that drove a shitty auto until I could get my 335is about 3 months ago now.

As you can see above post, I did double check my fluid level because I was worried I overfilled or under filled it. So level wise should be good. I also did some hard shifts and aggressive racing/driving after the fluid change without any grinding or issues so I think fluid level should be ok. I was really worried about that myself when I did the change.

When shifting in a normal driving way, I always shift around 2500 RPM mostly for all gears. Should I go higher?

Yeah sometime 1st gear same thing for me. I go to push it after starting the car in it feel like a hard resistance so I back of a bit and go back in and it goes fine.

Thanks for the tips and explanation. So no actual grind not to bad? I'll lower my windows down in the morning to hear and see if the noise I was hearing where it happened was actual grinding. The noise it does is really hard to describe. I've had grinding after doing like 5 hard passes in a row (prob transmission to hot, that was also before doing the fluid change so not related to fluid change) so I heard for sure what grinding sounds like but this is different..

[HawkeyeGeoff]

MT Engineer here....lower the rpm, the lower the synchro energy needed to engage (and less clutch dragging/deflection). 3k RPM shouldn't be any problem even in the bitter cold.

In cold weather there is always going to be some extra resistance until the fluid gets up to temp. It sounds like your 2nd gear has gotten a little more worn out over its lifetime, but if there is no grinding noise I wouldn't worry (and don't take that like this is a big deal). As some people suggested double clutch to minimize the synchro load on the gear or just find a fluid that performs better in the cold. Typically on these ZF transmissions it's only for the first couple shifts that I experience any type of resistance in the cold weather otherwise they're butter smooth, if that's any help.

Also, since you're new, these symptoms can 100% come from you not pushing the clutch all the way in. Check to make sure the car doesn't have a clutch pedal stopper that is larger than normal. Does your clutch engage near the floor or a little bit up the travel of the pedal? If it's AT the floor I could almost say these symptoms are caused by not total clutch engagement and I'd recommend you adjust that stopper.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeGeoff

MT Engineer here....lower the rpm, the lower the synchro energy needed to engage (and less clutch dragging/deflection). 3k RPM shouldn't be any problem even in the bitter cold.

In cold weather there is always going to be some extra resistance until the fluid gets up to temp. It sounds like your 2nd gear has gotten a little more worn out over its lifetime, but if there is no grinding noise I wouldn't worry (and don't take that like this is a big deal). As some people suggested double clutch to minimize the synchro load on the gear or just find a fluid that performs better in the cold. Typically on these ZF transmissions it's only for the first couple shifts that I experience any type of resistance in the cold weather otherwise they're butter smooth, if that's any help.

Also, since you're new, these symptoms can 100% come from you not pushing the clutch all the way in. Check to make sure the car doesn't have a clutch pedal stopper that is larger than normal. Does your clutch engage near the floor or a little bit up the travel of the pedal? If it's AT the floor I could almost say these symptoms are caused by not total clutch engagement and I'd recommend you adjust that stopper.

Yeah that is true for me to, after shifting 1st to 2 after 2 or 3 times my drive is really smooth. And wanted to hear that, like I'm sure I'm overreacting a bit and it won't kill my transmission.

About pressing the clutch down, I actually do I have a BMS clutch stop set to the medium setting (2 rubber washers out of 3). I didn't really think it could be related since I'm only on the medium setting and I physically feel I can still shift with the clutch still higher before it hit the clutch stop.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Yeah that is true for me to, after shifting 1st to 2 after 2 or 3 times my drive is really smooth. And wanted to hear that, like I'm sure I'm overreacting a bit and it won't kill my transmission.

About pressing the clutch down, I actually do I have a BMS clutch stop set to the medium setting (2 rubber washers out of 3). I didn't really think it could be related since I'm only on the medium setting and I physically feel I can still shift with the clutch still higher before it hit the clutch stop.

As long as you're sure about it totally disengaging I wouldn't worry about the symptoms you're seeing. If they continue though I would change the BMS stop to the lowest....due to clutch disc deflection at high RPMs this could cause a grind as well referencing back to your "hot" shifts after pulls. Just some food for thought.

Enjoy your car!

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeGeoff

As long as you're sure about it totally disengaging I wouldn't worry about the symptoms you're seeing. If they continue though I would change the BMS stop to the lowest....due to clutch disc deflection at high RPMs this could cause a grind as well referencing back to your "hot" shifts after pulls. Just some food for thought.

Enjoy your car!

Ok thanks!

May I ask you another question to my MT transmission since you seem to be very well informed about them. I asked before but didn't get a definitive answer.

Noticed sometimes for examples if I'm in 1st, when I clutch in at normal speed, the transmission has a clunk noise and a small shudder. For example still in 1st and arriving at a stop sign, clutch it around 2500 RPM it does it.

If I clutch it much slower it doesn't do it tho. I guess it's just normal because there is some force/spinning in there and just disengaging it quickly does that?

And thanks I am really enjoying it!

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Ok thanks!

May I ask you another question to my MT transmission since you seem to be very well informed about them. I asked before but didn't get a definitive answer.

Noticed sometimes for examples if I'm in 1st, when I clutch in at normal speed, the transmission has a clunk noise and a small shudder. For example still in 1st and arriving at a stop sign, clutch it around 2500 RPM it does it.

If I clutch it much slower it doesn't do it tho. I guess it's just normal because there is some force/spinning in there and just disengaging it quickly does that?

And thanks I am really enjoying it!

Yeh it's called declutch clunk/rattle. On the BMWs it's usually only really perceptible with the windows down as they have such good sound deadening. It happens when you do abrupt/not smooth unloading of the drivetrain, so it needs to be loaded up to do this. My experience is only with the F series M3 and the E series E90 though. This could be a little different on your 335is due to prop/driveline stiffness.

You will hear a minor amount of gear rattle and sometimes clunk. This symptom would be more apparent if your car has the clutch delay valve deleted as well.

Edit: If this is what you're hearing it's nothing to worry about. Just unwanted NVH.