[markymark666]

2012 the M135i quite was a top choice if you like really hot hatches... What makes a hot hatch?

Only real competitors were the Audi (R)S3 and the AMG A45.


Audi S3

Audi RS3

Now that nearly every brand has its hot hatch what do you think about the actual situation?

Some of the newer attempts ...



VW Golf GTI MK7.5 Performance

VW Golf GTI

Ford Focus RS

Ford Focus ST 2.0

Hyundai i30 N

Citroën DS3 THP200

Audi S1

[SteveinArizona]

what happened to the Honda Civic? A bit, okay a lot, extreme in appearance but a killer car.

[1MOREMOD]

Let me know what you find was planning on gti as next commuter

[GuidoK]

No Civic Type-R,
No Megane RS Trophy R..

Forgot the 2 fastest hot hatches on track

[markymark666]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

No Civic Type-R,
No Megane RS Trophy R..

Forgot the 2 fastest hot hatches on track

Great Hot Hatches... The fastest? The thread is based on personal experience. (Cars I met personally...) Can't say anything about these two.

[Efthreeoh]

"Now that nearly every brand has its hot hatch what do you think about the actual situation?"

I hate to tell you this, but BMW didn't invent the "Hot Hatch" with the M135i. The VW GTI and Ford RS preceded it by more than 30 years. Let alone the Omni GLH of the 1980's and the Honda Civic SI just to name a few.

IF anything, BMW is late to the Hot Hatch party by several decades.

[bucketfoot]

Originally Posted by markymark666

The thread is based on personal experience. (Cars I met personally...) Can't say anything about these two.

Then why did you make it a poll

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by markymark666

Can't say anything about these two.

There are many many tests on the internet where track performance is measured on different tracks.
I also think your comparisons arent very relevant to hot hatches.
They seem to center on engine power and straight line autobahn driving.
I think a hot hatch should shine on the more curvy roads.

If you want something fast on the autobahn get something with serious horsepower like an M5 or something with a really low drag coeffcient at high speeds (porsche)

[eatsleepboost]

What even is a hot hatch? I have never heard this term before. Also I hate the term already.

[markymark666]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

"Now that nearly every brand has its hot hatch what do you think about the actual situation?"

I hate to tell you this, but BMW didn't invent the "Hot Hatch" with the M135i. The VW GTI and Ford RS preceded it by more than 30 years. Let alone the Omni GLH of the 1980's and the Honda Civic SI just to name a few.

IF anything, BMW is late to the Hot Hatch party by several decades.

I know that (and never stated that) 2012 the M135i brought it to another level (according to Chris Harris) Of course the GTI was the first icon with at that time incredible 115hp

[neliconcept]

I'd take a Megane RS trophy (4 door) any day if we could get them in the US.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by neliconcept

I'd take a Megane RS trophy (4 door) any day if we could get them in the US.

Agreed. Even the new Pug 208 looks good.
[IMG]https://motoring.pxcrush.net/motorin...jpg?width=1024[/IMG]

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by neliconcept

I'd take a Megane RS trophy (4 door) any day if we could get them in the US.

What I also think is better with the Renault RS cars, or Ford RS cars, is when you get a Renault RS (either a Clio RS or Megane RS) or Ford (Focus) RS, you get the best that brand has to offer.
There is absolutely no watering down of that performance line like there is with for instance BMW or Mercedes. So you will never find a stock Megane or Focus with an RS bumper kit or a watered down engine like with BMW M or Mercedes AMG, where everything now can be had with an M performance bumper kit or exhaust, not at all related to the M cars (or AMG's) where it used to be used for. (Audi does more or less the same as everything now is 'S line')
Not that the m135i is a bad car, but once the watering down starts, where does it end?
I'll tell you:
with BMW you can actually get a 216i or 214d grand tourer Msport.
Yes thats right, a front wheel drive MPV with a whopping ~100hp (this is no typo ) with factory fitted M badges on the side of the bumpers.
If ///M still stands for ///Motorsport this is as watered down as you can get, and that from a brand that claims to have sportivity and performance in its dna. It's badgetuning in its ultimate form....

So everything with RS in renault or ford is way way more exclusive and performance orientated than that now ///M has become.
With Renault/Ford, if it says RS, its the real deal (unless of course the owner started its own badgetuning)

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Agreed. Even the new Pug 208 looks good.

Sure Peugeot also knows how to make a hot hatch . Next to VW GTI they made the historically most succesful hot hatch (205 GTI)
And Renault probably made the weirdest one (clio v6)

[HRE_Wheels]

Just traded back in our 2017 Golf R. Fun car, but certainly not something I could have lived with longer than the 3 year lease (actually we turned it in a few months early).

Personally, if we had the opportunity to pick up a 1-series hatchback in the United States, we would have, but it's not available here in the US. We saw them everywhere while picking up a car in Munich and they're great looking in person, I'm sure fun to drive too.

[Red Bread]

Yeah, I'd have bought a 135i five door or an M240i five door if either had been available. Cramped interiors be damned.

It's a shame that we don't get them here, as having owned a 135i coupe, I have no love for the body style and won't buy an M2 because of the lack of functionality and the M3 sedan has been too big for my tastes outside of the E36.

[GuidoK]

The 1 series interior also isnt that big. I think a golf is roomier on the back seat row and boot.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

The 1 series interior also isnt that big. I think a golf is roomier on the back seat row and boot.

Absolutely. I rented an F20 last time I was in the UK. Tiny inside compared to my Mk7. It's pretty much the perfect representation of why BMW is now using fwd on smaller cars. That and our old E84 X1.

But dammit, why can't someone make an approximately 3k pound, 250-350hp rwd, four or five door with a manual? I don't care if it's stupid, so are Miatas, Corvettes, Boxsters, Wranglers and all sorts of other things. Give dads what they want.

How about a Focus RS when it's not at the end of its lifecycle with a horrible interior and a steady diet of head gaskets. A Civic Type R that isn't eye bleedingly ugly and as large as an F30? A Golf at that isn't pumped full of Dramamine? An STI that isn't 2003 all over again? Hell, get creative, let's do a BRZ sedan with the STI motor. An M2 five door. An RS3 hatch with an extra pedal.

[EyeGuy]

Originally Posted by HRE_Wheels

Just traded back in our 2017 Golf R. Fun car, but certainly not something I could have lived with longer than the 3 year lease (actually we turned it in a few months early).

Personally, if we had the opportunity to pick up a 1-series hatchback in the United States, we would have, but it's not available here in the US. We saw them everywhere while picking up a car in Munich and they're great looking in person, I'm sure fun to drive too.

Just curious what you didnt like about the golf r. I was looking in to purchasing as my next car.

[Red Bread]

Drive the R back to back with a GTI. Tried it twice, bought two GTI's. The R has the same suspension, clutch (weak in both cars) and brakes as the GTI, but weighs a couple hundred pounds more, so it feels softer and lazier.

The engine makes more power of course, but feels kind of lazy in stock tune, more so than the stock GTI. Both really wake up with a tune.

To me, the R just feels half baked, it has good potential if you tune it, lower it and tighten up the suspension, but it feels too civilized stock, rather boring and sedate.

I haven't driven an R on the track, but on the street, the GTI with an LSD feels closer to neutral than the R with its 10% rear power transfer and open front diff.

[c1pher]

Porsche Macan?

[GuidoK]

Someone who calls that a 'hot hatch' has absolutely no knowledge of cars or car culture imho
Imho a hot hatch should always fall in the classic C, B or arguably A segment of cars, and be a proper hatchback of course.

[xQx]

A poll about hot hatches that doesn't have options for the Subaru WRX or Honda Civic?

.. hold my beer. I'm gunna go start a poll about American Muscle Cars (I'm guessing you folk just call them "muscle cars") that doesn't include Pontiac or Ford.