[Jeff01234567]

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/maz...-straight-six/

Saw this post and instantly thought of the new Toyota Supra! Toyota, who is one of the largest companies in the world, thinks it's too expensive to develop an all-new straight-six for the Supra. And here we have little Mazda, who can find a way to justify a naturally aspirated straight-six.

Also, it seems like this engine is for "large-architecture" cars, but can you even imagine what the Miata would be like with this engine? With a 2,700 lb convertible , ~250HP N/A straight-six, 6-speed manual, 7,000 RPM redline, and a starting price of just under $40K, Mazda could take my money no questions asked.

[yco]

nobody care for rotary engine patent but Mazda is needlessly stubborn about it.. i6 is good news for them and us..

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Jeff01234567

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/maz...-straight-six/

Saw this post and instantly thought of the new Toyota Supra! Toyota, who is one of the largest companies in the world, thinks it's too expensive to develop an all-new straight-six for the Supra. And here we have little Mazda, who can find a way to justify a naturally aspirated straight-six.

Also, it seems like this engine is for "large-architecture" cars, but can you even imagine what the Miata would be like with this engine? With a 2,700 lb convertible , ~250HP N/A straight-six, 6-speed manual, 7,000 RPM redline, and a starting price of just under $40K, Mazda could take my money no questions asked.

I changed from a Miata to an M Coupe. Primarily for the motor. Merge the two and I'd be perfectly content to go back to Mazda.

However my 2016 Mazda 3 had an absolutely horrible engine. Thing felt like a diesel, without the torque or efficiency. Hopefully they make this much better.

[GenXer]

Mazda is well known for having odd/innovative engine configuration. Starting with acquiring the German NSU rotary Wankel now Ford Renesis. In the 90's they had a 1.8L V6 whose cylinders were the size of Red Bull cans. It's a matter of time before they make a straight six of their own. I think it would fit perfectly in the Miata NC and ND chassis since there's enough room for a 5.0L V8. There is plenty of room in that engine bay for an inline 6 and maybe even a turbocharger.

[stevenvillatoro]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I changed from a Miata to an M Coupe. Primarily for the motor.

Go try out the '19 ND, Red Bread. I've had ever generation of Miata, and the engines were always the weak link; not so much for lack of power, but rather character. The extensive 2019 drivetrain changes make it a whole different animal, IMO.

[bimmer456]

Mercedes started making a straight six AMG car that slots in between existing AMG products. There was something else special about it but I forgot what. I think it was an electric turbo or maybe some hybrid system. Would be nice if they brought back the manual.

[Arcades]

I will believe it when I see it.

Mazda, as of late anyway, have always believed driving feel more than HP/Torq numbers. This won't really fly with those people looking for good 0-60 numbers. If they are looking to go upstream against, Benz, BMW, Audi, Porsche etc having a weak HP/Torq number will mean a lot. If they are super stubborn about not bringing back Mazdaspeed than they are screwed going down this route.

Why buy a Mazda worth 50k or so if you can get better performance and interior with Benz, Audi, Porsche and BMW?

[Tuxedo]

The fact the turbo gives so much torque at 1500rpm vs a NA i6 needs revs to 4500+ for an equal power, glad Mazda looks at this i6 in feeling instead of on a spreed sheet. I have sold Both Mazda and BMW and love the BMW product better at least feel my tribe here. Mazda with this move could change that.

I love NA i5/i6's it is clearly my preference, BMW not offering 1 for a few years now. Love to add more inline's to this list.
1991 Jeep Comanche Pioneer
1989 Jeep Cherokee Limited
1992 Acura Vigor
2001 BMW e46
2011 BMW e88
2009 BMW e88 - current
202x Mazda Concept?

[mkoesel]

This is good news, but what’s even better is it means that they are going to create a new RWD vehicle architecture to make use of the new engine. Obviously they are not going through the exercise just to put it in some low volume sports car. This engine and platform will take them upmarket into premium territory with luxury sedans, hatchbacks, and SUVs.

This seems like a pretty big gamble for Mazda, but many think the auto industry is ripe for consolidation, and this could make them more attractive for future partnerships. Gas engines will be around for at least twenty more years (if not double that). However, while the V6 will probably follow the V8 into the grave (or into niche uses such as extremely high end performance cars), the I6 could see longer life due to synergy with the ubiquitous I4. Mercedes, Jaguar/LR, now Mazda. Who will be next to bring forth an I6?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by stevenvillatoro

Go try out the '19 ND, Red Bread. I've had ever generation of Miata, and the engines were always the weak link; not so much for lack of power, but rather character. The extensive 2019 drivetrain changes make it a whole different animal, IMO.

Agreed. It's a great motor and really finally suits the chassis in a way no previous one did. Aside from the NA, but that was a simpler pairing. Love the ND, if I wasn't hauling a kid daily, I'd have one now.

[1and1]

Still miss my FBO Speed6...

The Current gen Mazda6 has the hood length to fit a straight 6, and can support either RWD or AWD...

Add in the SkyActiv turbo technology, and we have the makings for a next gen Speed6...

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

This is good news, but what’s even better is it means that they are going to create a new RWD vehicle architecture to make use of the new engine. Obviously they are not going through the exercise just to put it in some low volume sports car. This engine and platform will take them upmarket into premium territory with luxury sedans, hatchbacks, and SUVs.

This seems like a pretty big gamble for Mazda, but many think the auto industry is ripe for consolidation, and this could make them more attractive for future partnerships. Gas engines will be around for at least twenty more years (if not double that). However, while the V6 will probably follow the V8 into the grave (or into niche uses such as extremely high end performance cars), the I6 could see longer life due to synergy with the ubiquitous I4. Mercedes, Jaguar/LR, now Mazda. Who will be next to bring forth an I6?

I think you are right. It makes sense to drop a V6 production line since Mazda doesn't make a V8, so there is no production synergy for a V-block engine. In-line 4's and in-line 6's can share the same production line if they are manufactured as a modular engine design and share bore spacing.

It will be neat if Mazda makes a rear-drive platform for it; I'm hoping they do. But it's not out of the question to build a FWD platform. The Volvo XC90 was a transverse mounted I6 as an example. What would concern me as a Mazda executive is would the large platform be above the Mazda 6, or a replacement for the 6? Would Mazda 6 buyers accept a space-consuming longitudinal drivetrain? Interesting. God forbid Mazda actually goes crazy and sticks a manual transmission on the back end of it.

And by building an I6 diesel, does that mean Mazda is going to introduce a pickup truck...?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Tuxedo

The fact the turbo gives so much torque at 1500rpm vs a NA i6 needs revs to 4500+ for an equal power, glad Mazda looks at this i6 in feeling instead of on a spreed sheet. I have sold Both Mazda and BMW and love the BMW product better at least feel my tribe here. Mazda with this move could change that.

I love NA i5/i6's it is clearly my preference, BMW not offering 1 for a few years now. Love to add more inline's to this list.
1991 Jeep Comanche Pioneer
1989 Jeep Cherokee Limited
1992 Acura Vigor
2001 BMW e46
2011 BMW e88
2009 BMW e88 - current
202x Mazda Concept?

The Vigor was such a neat car.

[aaaaah]

And everyone got mad when I said that Mercedes had saved the I6 with their 48V + mild hybrid setup.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by aaaaah

And everyone got mad when I said that Mercedes had saved the I6 with their 48V + mild hybrid setup.

Not like MB saved something. BMW never stopped making I6's, it's kind of been their thing for a minute.

Sure, the 300SL (not R) had a straight six, but much of MB's legacy comes from V8's and I'd actually struggle to think of another memorable car of theirs with a straight six.

Even the new I6 is a middle child for them, you can always get a faster V8 model of anything it's currently offered in.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I changed from a Miata to an M Coupe. Primarily for the motor. Merge the two and I'd be perfectly content to go back to Mazda.

However my 2016 Mazda 3 had an absolutely horrible engine. Thing felt like a diesel, without the torque or efficiency. Hopefully they make this much better.

Weird you're the only one I ever see with that to say about the Mazda 3 engine in here. Have one now dont see what the issue is and have s54 along side it.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Weird you're the only one I ever see with that to say about the Mazda 3 engine in here. Have one now dont see what the issue is and have s54 along side it.

It feels great at partial throttle up to about 4k rpm. But there's very little improvement with full throttle and the thing just hates to rev. Part of my dislike is from changing from a 2006 with the 2.0L that was certainly not as torquey as the 2016 Skyactiv 2.5L, but was essentially the NC Miata engine and loved to rev to redline. I also got awful mileage, around 22mpg. I get 27-28 with my GTI that revs wildly better, has an extra 100 ft/lbs of torque and a gas gauge that at least approximates empty, rather than giving DTE with three full gallons left.

The chassis was great, loved the lift off oversteer, the direct steering and the overall light feeling without being as tinny and flinty as my 2006. But when that thing was totaled I didn't even consider another one.

Perhaps it was user error. Driven as a sedate daily, it was a great car. I just like cars that have a bit of a dual personality and that motor just felt like a 1990's Mercedes. It could do it, but it certainly didn't seem to enjoy any part of it. I always felt like that car was a great chassis let down by a lackluster engine. I also think that it was also largely because I had a manual. I suspect that engine with the flat torque curve to 4K rpm and an automatic was probably a much better pairing.

[billnchristy]

Has anyone ever done a roots supercharged i6? I know boost is low but instant boost should bring the power on quickly.

[aaaaah]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Not like MB saved something. BMW never stopped making I6's, it's kind of been their thing for a minute.

Sure, the 300SL (not R) had a straight six, but much of MB's legacy comes from V8's and I'd actually struggle to think of another memorable car of theirs with a straight six.

Even the new I6 is a middle child for them, you can always get a faster V8 model of anything it's currently offered in.

As I said last time. BMW kept the genre alive (only just now). MB saved it from dying for the next few years.

MB first.
Then Jaguar.
Now Mazda.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

It feels great at partial throttle up to about 4k rpm. But there's very little improvement with full throttle and the thing just hates to rev. Part of my dislike is from changing from a 2006 with the 2.0L that was certainly not as torquey as the 2016 Skyactiv 2.5L, but was essentially the NC Miata engine and loved to rev to redline. I also got awful mileage, around 22mpg. I get 27-28 with my GTI that revs wildly better, has an extra 100 ft/lbs of torque and a gas gauge that at least approximates empty, rather than giving DTE with three full gallons left.

The chassis was great, loved the lift off oversteer, the direct steering and the overall light feeling without being as tinny and flinty as my 2006. But when that thing was totaled I didn't even consider another one.

Perhaps it was user error. Driven as a sedate daily, it was a great car. I just like cars that have a bit of a dual personality and that motor just felt like a 1990's Mercedes. It could do it, but it certainly didn't seem to enjoy any part of it. I always felt like that car was a great chassis let down by a lackluster engine. I also think that it was also largely because I had a manual. I suspect that engine with the flat torque curve to 4K rpm and an automatic was probably a much better pairing.

Yeah I also get 36.6 mpg freeway for work. It's a commuter car didnt think it was some race car.

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by billnchristy

Has anyone ever done a roots supercharged i6? I know boost is low but instant boost should bring the power on quickly.

The current N55 already makes 330 ft lbs at a very low 1300rpm and does it with no parasitic loss or heat soak and will do so with better fuel economy. The twins M versions make considerably more hp, tq at very low revs also. There’s really no benefit of a roots over well designed turbo systems especially for street driven cars at least in my opinion.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by aaaaah

As I said last time. BMW kept the genre alive (only just now). MB saved it from dying for the next few years.

The Mercedes M256 is a very trick engine no doubt, but there was absolutely no danger of BMW's B58/S58 going extinct any time soon. They will be with us for another decade plus, and maybe considerably longer.

Like Mercedes, BMW will add 48V soon, although it is acknowledged that there is no belt-less, ISG variant visible on the horizon. Still, we can be assured that BMW plans to add those types of features if and when it is necessary to keep the engine competitive.

As long as the six cylinder ICE is still viable in the industry, BMW will be in the game. Nothing any single other automaker does or does not do will change that fact. But yes, as it has always been, one automaker's innovations will sometimes prompt the competition to step up their game a level.