BMW and Car & Driver: What’s going on?

Cortexiphan · 07-29-2019, 10:34 PM

I keep getting these artciles from C&D on my feed:

- “best mid-size luxury sedans”
- “best full-size luxury sedans”
- and so on

These articles consistently put BMW behind almost every other car on the list. All of the Hyundais, Kias, Benz, Audis, Jaguars, and pretty much every other car being compared have some positive comments, but not the BMWs. Yet, at the same time, they use pictures of the BMWs to accompany the article. For instance, in the “best mid-size luxury sedans” article, the featured picture is a 7 Series, for the “best full-size luxury sedans” article they use a 5 Series, and for “the best compact luxury sedans” story it is a 3 Series.

I am biased, I love BMW. Still, isn’t this a little odd especially considering every other publication would put BMW on top, or in 2nd, or maybe rarely in 3rd place? And why do they feature BMW pictures for all of these articles? Is there an issue between BMW and C&D? It’s weird, because generally I wouldn’t think a publication would be in such a war with an important brand.

Obioban · 08-02-2019, 11:44 AM

For decades BMW won all those tests, and everyone thought they paid C&D off. C&Ds test are commonly associated with BMWs are a result.

Then BMW started making garbage cars, and losing the tests are a result... and we're in today's situation.

P1 · 08-02-2019, 09:38 PM

Has anyone truly bought a car based off a review in... Car & Driver???

c1pher · 08-02-2019, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obioban

For decades BMW won all those tests, and everyone thought they paid C&D off. C&Ds test are commonly associated with BMWs are a result.

Then BMW started making garbage cars, and losing the tests are a result... and we're in today's situation.

I wouldn’t say BMW started making crap cars. I do think they secretly want to become Toyota though and make a toaster out of a car. I love BMW too but they are becoming too isolated and disconnected. The M2 comes close to being awesome but since it shares underpinnings with other BMW architectures it is not immune either.

billnchristy · 08-02-2019, 09:48 PM

Look at the evoque vs x2 m35i comparison.

vreihen16 · 08-03-2019, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P1et

Has anyone truly bought a car based off a review in... Car & Drivel???

Fixed that for you.....

The Libertine · 08-03-2019, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P1et

Has anyone truly bought a car based off a review in... Car & Driver???

Ha! While entertaining, I find C&D articles to be neither compelling nor persuasive when it comes to influencing my purchase decision.

Obioban · 08-03-2019, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c1pher

I wouldn’t say BMW started making crap cars. I do think they secretly want to become Toyota though and make a toaster out of a car. I love BMW too but they are becoming too isolated and disconnected. The M2 comes close to being awesome but since it shares underpinnings with other BMW architectures it is not immune either.

Toyota’s are reliable.

allinon72 · 08-03-2019, 08:36 PM

The old car mags are good for entertainment purposes only. If you're truly looking for a car review, you are much better off looking at youtube videos of honest opinions, rather than relying on the biases of a decades old magazine that may or may not have conflicts of interest.

Mason Hatcher · 08-03-2019, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

I keep getting these artciles from C&D on my feed:

- “best mid-size luxury sedans”
- “best full-size luxury sedans”
- and so on

These articles consistently put BMW behind almost every other car on the list. All of the Hyundais, Kias, Benz, Audis, Jaguars, and pretty much every other car being compared have some positive comments, but not the BMWs. Yet, at the same time, they use pictures of the BMWs to accompany the article. For instance, in the “best mid-size luxury sedans” article, the featured picture is a 7 Series, for the “best full-size luxury sedans” article they use a 5 Series, and for “the best compact luxury sedans” story it is a 3 Series.

I am biased, I love BMW. Still, isn’t this a little odd especially considering every other publication would put BMW on top, or in 2nd, or maybe rarely in 3rd place? And why do they feature BMW pictures for all of these articles? Is there an issue between BMW and C&D? It’s weird, because generally I wouldn’t think a publication would be in such a war with an important brand.

This is your Facebook feed?

Darth One · 08-03-2019, 09:16 PM

I don’t really see anything biased or wrong about C&D. During the days they said BMW was good, BMW was good. A lot of us owned those cars. Now other cars have surpassed BMW and they’re calling it like they see it. Even with my obvious bias towards BMW i’m still hard pressed to say they should win any awards these days.

The old print C&D had some quality writing - at least you got that for your money. Today’s online and YouTube content is a wasteland of amateur hour, fuccbois and zero emphasis on data-based testing.

There are a few exceptions to this (like Chris Harris and Carfection) but most reviews on YouTube go like this: “vroooom.....hoohoohoo!”. That’s better than the old school acceleration/skidpad/lap time comparison testing??

mzdial · 08-03-2019, 11:03 PM

Do you really think all the Youtubers are not biased? They are typically on junkets, which goes against traditional journalism. But that's unfortunately today's world.

That being said, I confess that I still enjoy them.

BTW -- I see you're in Indy! You should come to a Hoosier BMW meeting sometime.

530iDriver · 08-04-2019, 07:40 AM

Car and Drivel lost credibility with the long ago departure of Brock Yates and Csaba Csere.

Their favorite present day BMWs are the X1 and X2. That right there tells you all you need to know.

c1pher · 08-04-2019, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obioban

Toyota’s are reliable.

Correct. If that’s all you’re looking for in a car, then that’s your car. I had a Toyota Avalon Hybrid and it was a good car but not fun to drive. It served its purpose for me at the time.

Obioban · 08-04-2019, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c1pher

Correct. If that’s all you’re looking for in a car, then that’s your car. I had a Toyota Avalon Hybrid and it was a good car but not fun to drive. It served its purpose for me at the time.

Indeed.

My point was that BMW is questing to become Toyota, minus the reliability.

I have no intention of owning a Toyota (well, maybe a 4 runner) or modern BMW, as that's not all I'm looking for in a car.

clee1982 · 08-05-2019, 05:03 PM

BMW was more of a driver's car back then, the only one truly follow BMW's old formula was Caddlic, but Caddlic is cutting most of its sedan so I suppose BMW has made the "right" financial decision

530iDriver · 08-05-2019, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clee1982

BMW was more of a driver's car back then, the only one truly follow BMW's old formula was Caddlic, but Caddlic is cutting most of its sedan so I suppose BMW has made the "right" financial decision

Cadillac went from comfortable and large luxo barges to tight and sporty sedans mimicking and in some cases matching the best of them in terms of BMW handling, yet no one bought them.

ATS cancelled/dead, CTS dead if not in the chopping block.

Hard to please people!

G35POPPEDMYCHERRY · 08-05-2019, 05:45 PM

the bmw image showing is simply targeted advertising

HighlandPete · 08-05-2019, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

Cadillac went from comfortable and large luxo barges to tight and sporty sedans mimicking and in some cases matching the best of them in terms of BMW handling, yet no one bought them.

ATS cancelled/dead, CTS dead if not in the chopping block.

Hard to please people!

Similar in the UK. We have Jaguar and Alfa models as competitors to the 3-series. Both accepted as having better driving dynamics on UK roads. But do those who want the better drive (including BMW drivers who bemoan the 3-series driving dynamics) move to either...? Very few. Come the 'crunch', the BMW offers far more to users than the need for the 'edge' on driving dynamics.

Now we have the G20, which is being received very well over here in the UK reviews and first user's feedback. Seems the 3-series has its crown back, will be even harder for the competition to take sales away.

clee1982 · 08-05-2019, 06:10 PM

Even with G20 Caddy probably still has "better" steering feel, people just want different things

heavyD^2 · 08-05-2019, 06:10 PM

The latest issue has an SUV competition with the X5 finishing 2nd ahead of the Q7 and GLE (last place). The Cayenne finished 1st which was a given as they have pretty well awarded a Porsche first in any competition for years now. I still subscribe but I hate how they manipulate their points scoring system to favor the cars they want to see win.

There's little doubt they have been pretty harsh on the 3 series and BMW in general after decades of being perennial favorites to the point where fanboys would claim that BWM was paying them off. Then one day came EPS and that was the end as C&D absolutely HATES the BMW EPS. Doesn't bother me though as you only have to drive comparable Audi, MB, BMW and the BMW still drives the best even with MB making up a little ground of late.

Run Silent · 08-05-2019, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Now we have the G20, which is being received very well over here in the UK reviews and first user's feedback. Seems the 3-series has its crown back, will be even harder for the competition to take sales away.

Can you buy "the ultimate driving machine" over in the UK with a manual transmission?

Because you can't here in the USA if you want a 3 series, and that automatically revokes that title.

07-29-2019, 10:34 PM	#1
Cortexiphan Major 2314 Rep 1,301 Posts Drives: 2024 BMW iX Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (0)	BMW and Car & Driver: What’s going on? I keep getting these artciles from C&D on my feed: - “best mid-size luxury sedans” - “best full-size luxury sedans” - and so on These articles consistently put BMW behind almost every other car on the list. All of the Hyundais, Kias, Benz, Audis, Jaguars, and pretty much every other car being compared have some positive comments, but not the BMWs. Yet, at the same time, they use pictures of the BMWs to accompany the article. For instance, in the “best mid-size luxury sedans” article, the featured picture is a 7 Series, for the “best full-size luxury sedans” article they use a 5 Series, and for “the best compact luxury sedans” story it is a 3 Series. I am biased, I love BMW. Still, isn’t this a little odd especially considering every other publication would put BMW on top, or in 2nd, or maybe rarely in 3rd place? And why do they feature BMW pictures for all of these articles? Is there an issue between BMW and C&D? It’s weird, because generally I wouldn’t think a publication would be in such a war with an important brand. __________________ 11’ E92 ///M3 F82 ///M4 G30 540i ///Msport G20 ///M340i i20 iX xDrive50
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08-02-2019, 11:44 AM	#2
Obioban Emperor 1619 Rep 2,765 Posts Drives: M3, M3, M5, M5 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: West Chester, PA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW M5 [0.00] 2017 BMW i3 [0.00] 2005 BMW M3 Coupe [0.00] 2001 BMW M5 [0.00]	For decades BMW won all those tests, and everyone thought they paid C&D off. C&Ds test are commonly associated with BMWs are a result. Then BMW started making garbage cars, and losing the tests are a result... and we're in today's situation. __________________ 2005 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Wagon, 2001 M5 Sedan, 2008 M5 6MT Sedan, 2012 128i M sport
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08-02-2019, 09:38 PM	#3
P1 Lieutenant General 11735 Rep 11,191 Posts Drives: 2004 3/4 ton Duramax Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: United States iTrader: (1)	Has anyone truly bought a car based off a review in... Car & Driver???
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08-02-2019, 09:48 PM	#5
billnchristy Major 1700 Rep 1,494 Posts Drives: 2022 M440xi GC Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (0) Garage List 1966 Ford Mustang [2.75] 2022 BMW M440ix GC [8.33] 2022 Ford Bronco [10.00]	Look at the evoque vs x2 m35i comparison.
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08-03-2019, 08:36 PM	#9
allinon72 Brigadier General 5072 Rep 3,859 Posts Drives: 20' M2C, 23' X1 Join Date: May 2017 Location: Indianapolis, IN iTrader: (3)	The old car mags are good for entertainment purposes only. If you're truly looking for a car review, you are much better off looking at youtube videos of honest opinions, rather than relying on the biases of a decades old magazine that may or may not have conflicts of interest.
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08-03-2019, 09:16 PM	#11
Darth One drunk poster 6613 Rep 3,648 Posts Drives: M4 GTS \| E46 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	I don’t really see anything biased or wrong about C&D. During the days they said BMW was good, BMW was good. A lot of us owned those cars. Now other cars have surpassed BMW and they’re calling it like they see it. Even with my obvious bias towards BMW i’m still hard pressed to say they should win any awards these days. The old print C&D had some quality writing - at least you got that for your money. Today’s online and YouTube content is a wasteland of amateur hour, fuccbois and zero emphasis on data-based testing. There are a few exceptions to this (like Chris Harris and Carfection) but most reviews on YouTube go like this: “vroooom.....hoohoohoo!”. That’s better than the old school acceleration/skidpad/lap time comparison testing??
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08-03-2019, 11:03 PM	#12
mzdial Second Lieutenant 122 Rep 219 Posts Drives: '19 G20 330i & '19 G01 X3 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Zionsville, IN iTrader: (0) Garage List 2022 BMW X3 M40i [0.00] 2019 BMW 330i X-Dri ... [0.00] 2019 BMW X3 X-Drive ... [0.00]	Do you really think all the Youtubers are not biased? They are typically on junkets, which goes against traditional journalism. But that's unfortunately today's world. That being said, I confess that I still enjoy them. BTW -- I see you're in Indy! You should come to a Hoosier BMW meeting sometime.
	Appreciate 0

08-04-2019, 07:40 AM	#13
530iDriver Colonel 1714 Rep 2,541 Posts Drives: 2017 BMW 530i Join Date: May 2018 Location: Florida iTrader: (0)	Car and Drivel lost credibility with the long ago departure of Brock Yates and Csaba Csere. Their favorite present day BMWs are the X1 and X2. That right there tells you all you need to know. __________________ 2017 BMW 530i, Sport Line,Alpine White, Canberra Beige Sensatec, 19 inch V-Spoke wheels, basic plain Jane build with no options whatsoever..... "Less is more". Before: 2011 BMW 328i E90 sedan, Platinum Bronze Metallic, Dakota Brown leather, 17 inch wheels, 6-speed auto, N52 6 Cyl inline N/A goodness....
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08-05-2019, 05:03 PM	#16
clee1982 Lieutenant Colonel 805 Rep 1,736 Posts Drives: 2019 BMW 540i xDrive Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: NYC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 BMW 540i xDrive [0.00]	BMW was more of a driver's car back then, the only one truly follow BMW's old formula was Caddlic, but Caddlic is cutting most of its sedan so I suppose BMW has made the "right" financial decision
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08-05-2019, 05:45 PM	#18
G35POPPEDMYCHERRY Banned 4999 Rep 4,135 Posts Drives: F80 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Philadelphia iTrader: (1)	the bmw image showing is simply targeted advertising
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08-05-2019, 06:10 PM	#20
clee1982 Lieutenant Colonel 805 Rep 1,736 Posts Drives: 2019 BMW 540i xDrive Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: NYC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 BMW 540i xDrive [0.00]	Even with G20 Caddy probably still has "better" steering feel, people just want different things
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08-05-2019, 06:10 PM	#21
heavyD^2 Colonel 3737 Rep 2,991 Posts Drives: X3M Competition Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Too close to Santa iTrader: (0)	The latest issue has an SUV competition with the X5 finishing 2nd ahead of the Q7 and GLE (last place). The Cayenne finished 1st which was a given as they have pretty well awarded a Porsche first in any competition for years now. I still subscribe but I hate how they manipulate their points scoring system to favor the cars they want to see win. There's little doubt they have been pretty harsh on the 3 series and BMW in general after decades of being perennial favorites to the point where fanboys would claim that BWM was paying them off. Then one day came EPS and that was the end as C&D absolutely HATES the BMW EPS. Doesn't bother me though as you only have to drive comparable Audi, MB, BMW and the BMW still drives the best even with MB making up a little ground of late.
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